Once again killer wins
Yeah guess I shouldn't have expected anything less from behavior. Nerf the first new item survivor into the ground 2 weeks from release. Completely axe the anti tunneling and slugging at day 0. What a waste of a IP I thought for just a second that with the big boom of new players to the game they would have the courage to do SOMETHING but no this will be a sizzle in the pan and people will leave in droves aside from its current dedicated fans.
Comments
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So if feedback about the changes was overwhelmingly negative, which it clearly was, BHVR should just push forward with the changes anyway because people who don’t play killer and thus don’t understand the consequences on the game balance don’t like it?
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Calm down buddy your preferred role is still stronger.
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Lol
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Killer mains get what they want and still act like they're weak victims.
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It works for them. Why would they ever stop?
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At some point I would like to see all PTB stuff went through on live. Not because they are any good, just to see how people collect consequences of their own desires in few months. Because no doubt they wouldn't like it way more than anything that they currently don't like.
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Its factual information that survivor is better, and its in the stats too for the most part. BHVR caters far too much to bad survivor players, and these changes would've been the mother load of unbalance. I have a 75%+ escape rate, thats not supposed to be happening according to BHVR's target killrate.
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Killers needed to be heard, this update was about to be awful for majority of the roster.
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It's becoming a problem we can't even get breadcrumbs, I was excited for antislug, and anti tunnel is debatable but they will always cry no matter what
it has to be the most pathetic thing i've seen from big devs, push anti slug live at least, stop being clowns
Post edited by rvzrvzrvz on7 -
Yup- this.
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I can tell just by OP thinking killer is better than survivor that they're either super inexperienced, and or they just suck as surv. Cus anyone whos played this game since the beginning knows how this game has never ever been in the killer's favor. Thankfully its nowhere as broken as it was then, but its still drastically obvious which role is better (its survivor.)
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Not first post thats build as us vs them. Im not surprised there will be post like this from those called and calling themsels “survivor mains”.
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My escape rate is far closer to the average than yours is, but full agree about the “catering to bad survivor players” point. My games are riddled with people who get downed 5 seconds into a chase because they don’t know basic chase skills. I believe a majority of the complaints about how “impossible” the survivor side is are coming from these players.
There are a ton of good survivor players out there who can consistently give killers long chases - I see them in my killer games all the time. It is possible.-5 -
Realistically, where can you even go from here to revive the system? It feels like this was definitive and now when they go back to the drawing board what can you possibly draw up in those discussions to bring to the table that appeases the frustration of both sides? Maybe i'll be wrong, always glad to be, but I just don't see how you can turn this around and also present a better alternative that isn't boiled down severely because you can't really go anywhere else with this system.
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I honestly agree. I honestly think all we need are changes to the extreme uses of tunneling and slugging that are so unnecessary like what happened with camping. Survivors will still complain because "tunneling and slugging are still a thing," um yeah… you can't just remove strategies from a game to win because the person who loses doesn't like it. That's a terrible way to balance, hence why the changes needed to go back to the kitchen to cook a little longer. Though I guess you can't tell survivor mains that because they think they are entitled to escaping every round because they're so awesome and perfect and all the fault lands on the mean old killer who didn't just leave them alone all game. Tunneling the first person you see out at 4 or 5 gens remaining? Sure make changes to it. Make it so that if you're barely getting hooks at 1-2 gens left you punish killers for trying to turn things around like you'd be allowed to do in any other pvp game? No it needs to be fixed.
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Antislug was kinda ok but they have to balance perks like plot twist very carefully because its strong perk that can be abused. Not to mention killers like oni, twins should get some buffs which would make them more none sluging killers like for oni from 2 blood orbs after hook to 5 is phatetic he needs blood to get power and he is fair killer strong but fair, he needs injures thats whats gives him power but 5 bloodorbs it dhould be like 10 to make it fair and twins their whole problem with sluging is that when victor downs someone charlotte cant get there fast enough to make them more hooking killer than sluging one she is just m1 speed no teleport etc. but I fear if devs touch twins it could mean endless bugs in whole game because every time they touched them it buged the hell out of the game.
Antitunnel changes are needed but these were overdone especialy in punishments for hooking survivor twice and killing one punishing hardcore tunnelers and normal killer players same and almost free escape in endgame with 30 seconds basekit endurence+haste which is busted should be 10 seconds in endgame not to mention other things.-11 -
That's not factual at all. The latest aggregated stats BHVR have released show every single killer wins greater than 50% of the time and most are at or above their 60% target. Killers literally win more than survivors.
Your personal stats aren't relevant to game balance beyond their contribution to aggregated killer/survivor win/loss data. Past 30 day combined data shows I have greater than 60% kill rates on 16 of 19 played killers - still think we should go off anecdotal, player by player data?
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Idk your MMR, your opponents could just be ass. Survivor is easily better than killer, just because public stats that include all players (including bad ones) says otherwise does not mean survivor isn't stronger. The devs had stated themselves that changes are kften motivated by pick rates and kill rates. They probably saw that and assumed that survivor was struggling, when in reality its just bad players struggling.
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That's a lot of copium in that post there.
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The Antitunnel and anti slug were extremely overtuned and often punished pople who were not tunneling
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Go next currently does this on live.
Why do they only selectively care about false positives?
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Hard to explain players which play just one role and making us vs them posts here, like these players claim killers crying got this stoped to come live but what about that twitter crying for merchant to be nerfed or did we forget what hsppened to her if we should set a exsample thats like killers would complain about these antitunnel changes and devs eould remove unhook protection or mske it 5 seconds almost unuseable.
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My escape rate’s lower too — around 60%. I mostly play soloQ, duoQ, and small SWF, and I still get out of over half my matches. From what I see, most games that go south aren’t because the killer’s too strong; it’s because the survivor team throws at some point. I’m not even hard-playing for escapes — I like risky endgame, I’ll sack for good teammates when the teamplay’s there. I also don’t always min-max the survivor-efficiency meta. The game is still heavily survivor-sided — people just need to use the tools they have.
There’s zero reason to take killer’s pressure tools away — tunneling, slugging, proxy when it makes sense.
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You mean that jinuary stats from freddy rework release?
I dindt see that many freddys if he has same killrsres as blight even higher but I keep see many blights and ghouls so these stats arent good to set as exsample one month isnt good for picture all killrates abd deffinitly not when there is new killer or rework which gets people time to learn how to play against it and what counterplay is best.
Tell me fo you think you would do better against huntress or artist if you get huntress 9 times out of 10 matches and artist 1 match out of 10 matches, who would you be skilled to vounterplay more?-11 -
To be totally fair, this is a very disingenuous claim. If you are in the higher percentile, which if I'm not mistaken you have said you think you are, then you're understandably not going to be the target of systems designed to help the majority who aren't. You're playing a different game altogether in that case.
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Because going next and tunneling/slugging are viewed differently, both by the community and BHVR, and end up with very different consequences as a result. I see both having practical applications and reasons to exist, while not as necessary as they can seem in the moment. But I feel like that's a rare assessment.
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balance aimed at “the majority” and vets should just watch? Or join the 2K-and-dip meta to keep lobbies cozy? Every PvP respects skill; DbD shouldn’t be the outlier.
That’s not how PvP works anywhere else. Why here?
In PvP you run into better players and you die.
Why should dbd be different?
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Since when has any asymmetrical PVP been a normal PVP? They have to be balanced differently because they center around equity, not equality.
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The thing is that this machanic hurts all levels of play. High MMR is affected drastically now, how am I supposed to kill a single person before all gens are done if I'm not playing a top 5 killer and not emergency tunneling? (Made up term but essentially its when you tunnel purely cus the only way you can win at this point is by slowing gen pressure down. Through swiftly ridding of a survivor.)
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I think it averages around the center. High MMR will always have to be played differently and the lowest MMR is still getting the hang of things. The majority that hover around the center have to be prioritized in my opinion.
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Oh cool what's your win streak for survivor? 25? 100? Maybe 1900. Yeah didn't think so look at the highest highs for each side you will see your argument crumbles name a single pvp game where people are pulling crap like that off. And I'll show you a broken game. The point of the matter still stands there is basically a zero win state for survivors at a 3v1 and go next prevention keeps them in the match to toil away for the killers amusement.
Survivors need to adapt to new killers clowns that move as fast as the flash and 90% + killers just floating around but killers couldn't attempt to not tunnel for a single week in the PTB with out have utter melt downs. Seems about right. Maybe we can get 99% hooks instant flashlights prenerfed dead hard or any of the other things taken away.
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this is basically saying at any point a killer can tap the EZ win button to turn the match around how is that healthy in any game? If your struggling your artificially placed in an MMR your not prepared for.
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I'll remember to be grateful for that when I'm bleeding out for four minutes cause the killer thinks its funny, or next time I lose ten matches in a row, a thing that's never happened to me as killer.
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Don't worry they will say
"your a new player in Low MMR so you don't know how OP and scary survivors are!! You see I believe that my totally non artificially pumped MMR by tunneling show I'm incredibly skilled with a 80-90% kill rate but also never can win vs Survivors who definitely are not better then me especially when I tunnel and or Slug two very big brained strategies that I came up with to secure wins but!! You see it takes more effort then it should it's unfair survivors need to be nerfed"
*Note this is a fake person I'm quoting and is not ment to reflect negitvely on any player. If similarities exist in my post to an actual individual it is by coincidence.
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New patch announced:
Killers- “this looks real bad, these changes don’t target hard tunneling or toxic 5 gen slugging at all. They’re going to be abused just like all of the current anti tunnel/slug measures”
Survivors- “shut up baby and wait for the numbers”
Patch is revealed and released to PTB:
Killers- “these numbers are even worse than I thought. here are specific examples of how this will be abused, or just affect killers who play the game in a healthy way. Here are several ideas for systems that are both simpler and better at targeting the actual problem.”
Survivors- “shut up baby you just want to tunnel someone out every game for EZ wins”
Patch is killed:
Survivors: “KILLERS ARE THE WORST THEY JUST CRY ABOUT EVERYTHING! THERE WERE FLAWS WITH THIS BUT KILLERS SHOULD’VE JUST DEALT WITH THEM BECAUSE I ABSOLUTELY GET 4 MAN SLUGGED AND TUNNELED OUT EVERY SINGLE GAME!! I DON’T EVEN HAVE ANY SORT OF WAY TO COMBAT EITHER OF THESE STRATEGIES LIKE PERKS OR UNHOOK BUFFS OR ANYTHING!”
This wasn’t a “loud minority” of people crying to get their way. It was many people, some of whom coincidentally have a lot of experience with this game, providing feedback on several platforms. Which was the purpose. Killers provided specific valid concerns and proved the flaws with these changes in the ptb, this patch absolutely didn’t need to go live. Maybe the survivors should try providing actual solutions to the problems they think are in the game for the devs to listen to? As a mostly killer player I would say that strategy seems to have worked and is in general much more useful to a dev team than just yelling “killers are your favorites!”
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I like how you made the killers the level headed ones when they were the ones losing their minds collectively and got the patch scrapped.
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Yeah that's absolutely the way this played out. No insults were flung. There weren't a zillion overreacting posts. Everyone was so clam and reasonable.
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We can flip it, too: “You’re just a bad killer”—because apparently I’m qualified to rate everyone’s skill. “Boosted off cheap kills,” right?
So it’s totally legit that I rush you from bad positions, ignore macro, run across the map with bad pathing, and play over-aggressive—second-chance perks stacked on top. And then I expect every reactive tool to be taken from you, because you shouldn’t be the killer—you should politely overlook everything I’m doing
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not everyone was calm and reasonable but plenty of people expressed real valid concerns from the start. have you seen the original post of this thread? Don’t pretend like survivors are ways calm and reasonable. But all I’m seeing now are survivors claiming the only reason this patch was canceled is because of loud screeching which is blatantly not true. The patch was very flawed and we saw it from the announcement, luckily for everybody the devs listened and we will hopefully get a better solution to actually tunneling and malicious slugging in the near future.
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I'm assuming this response is to me.
This survivors vs killers thing is obnoxious. The most reasonable takes I've seen throughout this have been from people who either play both roles or who are not overly and emotionally attached to their prefered role. There's been a serious lack of objectivity and unbiased views in this uproar.
The patch is being postponed, hopefully not canceled. It needs to be adjusted. There are many good ideas and the game needs something to make it less stale and aggravating.
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there are some good ideas in the patch but a lot of it is too heavy handed and affects normal gameplay. I agree hardcore tunneling needs to be addressed, and the malicious 5-gen sluggers need to be stopped, but this wasn’t the way. Adding all of this on top of the existing anti-tunnel/slug tools and buffs survivors already have would make killer unbearable. Apparently the devs agree. And I would argue that adding more and more perks base kit reduces build variety and forces everyone to play the game the same way and that itself makes the game stale. Everyone already know what’s going to happen every match.
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The title alone — “once again the killer wins” — is emotional and not exactly neutral. That’s fine; people are allowed to be emotional about something they care about. What bugs me is how every emotional post gets framed as Us vs Them. That framing is what actually turns it into Us vs Them. Saying “this part favors killers/survivors” on a specific point doesn’t mean you’ve sworn allegiance to that side forever.
You can be 100% on one side of a specific issue without it fitting the whole us vs them narrative. It’s unfair to assume someone only plays/favors one side just because they take a firm stance on a particular topic.
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What non-perk, basekit assistance do survivors currently have with slugging? Because I know for sure all I can do is lay there.
We are already lacking in variety. Almost every one of my survivor matches I see Pain Res, DMS, Surge, BBQ, Corrupt, Lethal. Survivors aren't much better, but at least there's a little more variation, and it'd be nice to drop the anti-tunnel and anti-slug builds for things people actually want to use instead of things they feel they have to.
It concerns me that regualr mode could become too much like 2v8, but I also think the changes would increase variety. I use info perks like BBQ a lot. I was looking forward to getting it for free to open that spot up for something more interesting. Free Pop might reduce regression perk usage as well.
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The emotional response has now flipped to the other "side." It's not going to be as loud, I imagine. More like the gloom and defeat that settled around the destruction of fog vials.
Yeah, you can't always assume, but some people hide their biases better than others. Many out themselves with their wording by saying things like "you survivors [this]" and "killers always [that]".
Throughout this fight, because I dared to say things like "let's test it out before we decide how we feel" or "the survivor experience has become miserable, particularly in soloq, and needs a boost" I've been accused of never playing killer, posting both killer and survivor stats that weren't mine, and lying about not tunneling and slugging. Received a couple nasty insults as well. Being emotional is one thing, being deranged is another, and some people have been just that.
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These changes would have brought me back to the game. Guess I'll quit until the next 2v8 because I'm not playing a game where one side has a massive advantage with 70% kill rates.
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Having the anti-slug measures, anti-tunneling measures, new killer, new survivor and myers rework all rolled out in a single chapter and NOT having it be a complete clown show is an unrealistic expectation to have. Behaviour did highlight these are for testing purposes and hopefully we'll get the chance to revisit those changes for the next PTB. In an indeal world they'd roll out the systems one at a time after enough testing and tweaks. Release the anti-slug first, then the anti-tunnel, etc. etc.
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“Cus anyone whos played this game since the beginning knows how this game has never ever been in the killer's favor. ”
The game has been in the killers favor since old eruption. Especially with the amount of strong killers the devs have released. Look at Dracula and the very last one they released. You know who I’m talking about. Plus the buffs they have given to killers since that 6.1 update for example hillbilly.
Survivors were the power role from 2016- august 2022. Killer has been the power role since August of 2022 and still are.
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You are correct. There were countless killer mains screaming "Crybaby survivors getting their handheld!!!!!". Thank you for supporting my claim.
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Wouldn’t you if all odds were against you?
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