http://dbd.game/killswitch
"feels too punishing for Killers" - what kind of pathetic excuse is this?
I understand that I'm going overboard with rudeness and probably gonna be banned, but what kind of pathetic post is this on your part!? There are clearly signs that you favor one side, you're just making a shitstorm of posts "us vs them" because of your twitter post!
My opinion is why you shouldn't have cancelled it:
- If you don't have time to rework these changes, then release them as is, but with minor changes to the numbers, and then in the live release, listening to feedback from not only the killer mains and then adjust it again.
- By not releasing this update, you are depriving all other platforms of the opportunity to try out the content and give an opinion about it. Do you think it's right that only Steam players give feedback? Again, a one-sided decision on your part
- Killers will also continue to exploit the game's flaws in the form of slug and tunnel, understanding that even in the next PTB they can vote against it and you will cancel again like cowards
- If a player chose to play as a killer, he must understand that he is creating a match, that he must try a bit harder if he wants a lot of hooks, this is not walking in the park to give them everything in their hands
But I understood one thing for sure, you are not interested in the opinion of survivors for more than a year, especially solo survivors. The best example is a dead item called fog vials, the stupidest rework of maps and keys that are so useless, especially their iri addons
Comments
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I'm probably going to pass this chapter since I have the pass finished and lots of cool games out at the same time as it, the removal of the QoL has made me a bit less enthusiastic. Killer queues are quite long recently so I'd have liked to see if it made them more bareable, main thing I saw that was valid was the amount of hooks needed to avoid the punishment.
I feel like they could have made minor changes to the system and see how it went and then went from there in the next PTB. Coz I don't trust Content Creators/general killer opinions after Kaneki/Blight/facecamping ptbs where they all claimed these were all trash or going to kill the game respectively.
I'll catch up with the new killer and survivor later though, they aren't going anywhere.28 -
I'm in the middle here.
They are right that it did feel too punishing for Killers and acknowledging that is important. You don't want game balance to result in players feeling like they're walking on eggshells. A system like this should be respected, not feared.
Likewise, the fatigue is very real. Keeping a system that feels too punishing for Survivor in favor of an update that feels too punishing on Killer certainly doesn't feel nuanced at all. A lot of Survivors had hope that this patch would finally make the game feel more tolerable and without it, why queue up at all?
All I can say is that they have proven this year that they can shelve something and bring it back reworked within a few patches (yes I'm talking about anti-go next, but still). The idea that these changes were even proposed at all and they were mostly good is also a shocker. Those two things alone aren't enough for me to decide that BHVR is absolved of all past mistakes quite yet, but it is enough for me to give them some grace in seeing what they do next.
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you are 100% right my dear, we could at least try out the new content, since I am not on steam I couldn't test it, but no we again have to sit in the game's stale state, the game needs a lot of gameplay mechanics like anti slug and anti tunnel this is what makes the game interesting and fresh. Well we as survivors should stay slugged and watch that "fun" gameplay called crawling around and doing nothing until killer pleases to hook us but before he can easily mock us, hump so, so pathetic
15 -
These changes are probably coming to the game anytime soon. They just didn't want to implement it the way it is because numerical changes wouldn't be enough to fix it.
Also, i do believe that SoloQ needs more better matchmaking and info perks as basekit than an antislug and anti-tunnel system. You can still have a dogshit experience if your teammates are potatoes or you don't have any info on what your teammates are doing and the perks they have.
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The messaging certainly isn't helping. It could have been
"We realize we tried to do too much in this patch, with a new killer, a new survivor, and multiple new mechanics. We want to make sure we get this right for all parties. We will be reviewing all the feedback and data and will give an update on our direction on [insert date that is not too crazy far away] and will prepare for a second PTB for the anti-tunnel and anti-slug."
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I think there is some merit to that complaint, cause you never know where in the MMR system a Killer is and how much skill they have. My solution is to make the penalty scale based on a number of factors:
I think we need to show some humanity to these Killers and make sure to tailor the system better to them.
-4 -
Well the system looked bit too harsh to me punishing even non-tunnelers but I haven't really looked how it worked. Personally I would wanted it to be added just to test it out myself. Are they at least adding more pallets?
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The real issue is Behavior using a rocket launcher to fix every problem. Either that or they walk back most of the proposed changes and nerf them into uselessness. The go next system is a great example of the first one. All you needed to do was remove the kobe on the first hook and the problem was mostly solved. Instead we also got that convoluted system that punishes innocent players. Then you have cases like the anti face camp. I have played probably 1000+ games since that was added and I have seen it activate a grand total of once. It's so laughably forgiving that it's almost impossible to activate unless you go out of your way to do it. I have no doubt in my mind that whatever they add in the future for slugging/tunneling will be equally useless. Like just scrap the idea entirely and stop wasting resources on it. We know exactly how it's going to turn out. I personally never wanted anything this convoluted. Most of my complaints about the game have been about fixing MMR and maybe nerfing a few of the over tuned killers at the top of the roster (Blight, Nurse, etc). The absolute most I wanted from an anti-tunnel system was punishing the most extreme cases of hard tunneling. For example hooking the same guy three times in a row. The kind of degenerate BS that people do to achieve absurdly high win streaks. That's what made things like the 2000 game Blight winstreak possible. Nonsense like this should not be possible in a game with skill based matchmaking.
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its crazy to me because its literally a disincentive to tunnelling, its meant to be punishing…
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A killer maybe losing from antitunnel? Too punishing for the killer. A killer tunneling out a survivor at 5 gens forcing the go next penalty on the survivor so the survivor not only loses the match at the start but also has a time out from being able to continue playing DBD? Totally fine.
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It punished people who weren't tunneling too tho. And was easily weaponized, enabled bad macro, and messed with several killers powers
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cheaters do the same to others and it yet still not addressed, go next prevention is still a joke and I made a post about it here
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/453210/go-next-prevetion-yet-again-sucks-why-are-you-enabled-it#latest
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truthfully, i was happy with the changes. i don't take killer as serious as survivor for some reason - i like to enjoy my chases and like to avoid putting the survs in situations that would negatively impact their experience (bleeding out/tunnelling at start of the game etc. so i was really looking forward to games having a bit more to help them "get out of the gutter" if that makes sense, against people who dont tend to play so nice. i just thought they should make it so gen block doesnt activate after after 2/3 gens have popped as by this point its literally just fair game. (i promise im not an entitled survivor even tho it seems like it sometimes xd) and that killer power related deaths (traps/onryo etc) dont so much as punish the killer so much but still give the survivors a bit of leeway if it does occur early on in the game. i know how weak onryo currently is, i literally feel so bad for her mains, and would love for her to be able to apply pressure without being punished for using her power but still give survivors something as 3v1 at the start of the game feels impossible to come back from and gives a lot of killers too much power from something that requires not the most effort..and i know how it feels to play a weaker killer and not have the greatest start and need to get the pressure asap. but they still could have tweaked the numbers and still pushed some of them to live…because being tunnelled out at 5 gens and the rest of the team just being there like oh well gg next then i guess and they all just give up or rat out… it feels really unhealthy for the game so they could've at least gave us something.
and the fact that its been (i saw someone say 8 months) since the beginning of "operation health" and still not much has really been done…and we're getting more content after hearing them explicitly say they were holding back on it to focus on the game just makes it feel like they're lying to our faces and are like "but dont worry!!! we still want your money. HERE!"
i love dbd but they're making it difficult for me to even trust a word they say at this point. killers are still bugged, servers are still bad, fov is still in beta (i play spirit (& pig, but pig is.. ya know… pig) so not being able to enjoy my fav killer sucks, queue times (for killer at least) are abysmal yet they're doubling down on modifiers what feels like every month. i cant remember the last time i played killer thoroughly if im being honest.. i play every now and then atm but there's so many things wrong with the game i just dont play very much anymore, auto aim extending the survs chase to longer than it was originally gonna be like or just getting f'd by the game not working properly in general making the game feel more surv sided when the reality is you just keep getting bugs kicking ur ass…. but still if they actually did what they said they were going to do i think a lot of these changes would be welcomed with a less controversial respect ?!? cz killer only feels clanky (in my experience anyways) cz i keep getting messed up by things that shouldnt be happening but are because the devs wont fix anything… if they fixed them i believe killers wouldnt feel so helpless? if thats how they're feeling idk
anyways to put this to bed so to speak i think a lot of the solutions could be toned down, and implemented anyways to resolve the issues we currently have with overly toxic gamers ruining games(these games do happen frequently as much as everyone wants to claim they dont. i think killers have a little to much power/control in how a game plays out by tunnelling/bleeding out people and it makes survivor feel miserable… and also so that we can have trust in the things they say they'll do. they cant just keep putting forward "ideas" then slap a bunch of DLC's in the game and call it a day.
maybe this is built up disappointment and annoyance from the state of dbd and how the devs seem to handle things idk but it just really sucks…
sorry for the book im just tired
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I'm glad this didn't went through it was going to do far more damage than intended. Wasn't going to affect just the problem hard tunneling at 4 or 5 gens when it was most problematic instead it would've affected everything across the board forcing every single killer to play as if they're walking around Lego pieces. The anti-slug/tunnel also could easily be weaponized by the survivor players.
- Trap killers are the weakest in the game, they can't be picky who they chase and it's the survivors fault for triggering any traps.
- 2 survivors on death hook are being aggressive taunting the killer and the other 2 have no hooks and playing like rats being very hard to find. What the hell is the killer suppose to do when the killer is being taunted by the 2 on death hook?
- What if 3 survivors are being the biggest rats not taking chases and only one survivor is being found? Can't blame the killer for tunneling that one person out when it's the survivors fault that happened.
- Base kit Tenacity was stupid. Killers that has a mean to down survivors from a long range like Huntress, Artist, Knight, Twins, etc would easily lose the person they downed and maps with a lot of tall grass like Dead Dog Saloon they're not ever going to find them.
- Immunity to killer instinct also stupid as it would allow the survivor to hard counter certain killer powers with ZERO risk.
- May as well delete Sadako and Pig with how their kits work.
Yeah i've would've completely quit the killer role if the changes went through it would've feel miserable being forced to play by the survivor rule book. Then survivor mains would be at fault wondering why the que times are so much longer.
-14 -
kinda weird to look at someone going "I realize I made a mistake and decided to think about it more." and calling it pathetic.
-1 -
that mistake was healthy, killer mains nowadays…
-4 -
BHVR had years to come up with anti slugging features since that mori-slugging ptb (which ironically was around september too) and they basically made basekit unbreakable 90 seconds instead of 45, only to delay everything again. Maybe next time in a few more years it will be 180 seconds instead LOL
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Plain and simple. It was way too punishing for killers. I spent hours on that PTB being punished when I wasn’t even tunneling. Hours. Let’s be so for real. Even the survivors AGREED with me in the PTB itself.
Go play killer on there for a day or so. Then come back to me
-3 -
Same "pathetic" excuse survivor mains gave about the original Finisher Mori? Newer players don't remember that, but almost universally survivor mains hated it and killer mains loved it.
-4 -
These posts Ik are gonna be populated with people who think 2016 infinites were okay. The bias to favoring survivor is strong with this one.
-4 -
AGREED!! It was the “feels too punishing for killers” comment for me - like what about the survivors?? They never think about that its always something with a killers point of view. It wasnt too punishing they just hate to not be able to get easy kills and they cry like babies against stronger survivors
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They only care about what is inconvenient for killers. It's so freaking hilarious survivors have been punished for how long? Slugging, humping, tunneling......perks that punish survivors for doing the objective. It is amazing they would say that considering the suffering and punishing of survivors always faced when playing the game.
-1 -
You say that while talking about the ptb that did the same to killer. You don't want it fixed you just want to make killers miserable for a perceived slight
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It's a disingenuous misrepresentation.
Reducing the punishment for survivors is framed as rewarding survivors.
Reducing the reward for killers is framed as punishing killers.
A 3v1 is always to the killer's benefit, no matter how many gens are left, no matter how large the gen speed boost is. Survivors simply do not have enough free action left at that point to progress the game. One chased, one hooked, one rescuing. Nobody is on gens. Regression works maximally. For gen progress to even happen, the killer has to go on a disastrous chase.
Reducing the odds of them winning a 3v1 at 3 gens from like 99% to 97% is not 'punishing killers.' It is making the game slightly less hopeless. One of the core design sins that causes so many other problems is that when games become hopeless, one side can choose to lengthen them to run up the score, have the freedom to grief the other side without fear of retribution, etc. The game SHOULD accelerate towards its conclusion, win AND lose, not stall. Survivors understand it is hopeless, so they hide. Killers understand they cannot lose, so they slug, hump, grief, etc. The game stalls, does not progress, and all incentives go not towards winning but griefing. By BHVR's own design.
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Awe, punishing killer for tunneling and slugging? What a shame.
-5 -
Only on the DbD forums would the developers rightly postponing an underbaked system be construed as "pathetic" and "cowardly". Like come on guys, the game has survived without these systems long enough that you can wait a few months for them to perfect it before pushing it out. Because I can guarantee that if they pushed it out as is, y'all would be the first ones to complain about how you're only seeing Nurse.
Go play killer on there for a day or so. Then come back to me
These people don't play Killer, at least not consistently enough to understand the VERY obvious and flaws and oversights of the systems on the PTB. They don't see us as real players who value our own experience just as much as they do. Instead, we're just a tool to facilitate THEIR experience of the game. Which is why they don't care whatsoever that the proposed PTB changes would have completely nuked the role.
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If your definition of "healthy" is completely killing the game then sure.
-8 -
how about if survivors want real change instead of crying that a horrible anti-hooking punishment for killers in the guise of “anti-tunnel” didn’t get pushed to live and force a mass exodus of killers. Survivors come up with actually ways to change the system to actually target tunneling and slugging? Killers have spent the last week telling BHVR that these changes didn’t target just hard tunneling and toxic slugging and giving alternative solutions as well as pointing out the flaws in this system. And now survivors just keep crying “well they should’ve pushed it live and broke the game before they fixed it.. somehow”. Maybe BHVR saw the valid points killers made about how this system just wasn’t the right way to go at all? You have anti-tunnel and anti-slug tools in the game, use them. But I’m willing to bet after half the comments I’ve seen this past week you don’t actually get hard tunneled or slugged as often as you claim. Just because you hop back in a generator before you heal doesn’t mean you’re getting tunneled, it means you’re getting punished for making a bad choice, learn from it. Same with getting caught healing under hook. And im tired of the soloQ comments. It’s a TEAMWORK game, you’re naturally going to be at a disadvantage if you’re playing with people you don’t know, that’s just how it works. It might not be fair but there’s not much that can be done to balance that. You can adapt your play style to better work with however you’re teammates are playing but that gonna be a tough thing to do and likely require a lot of skill at the game. I get that you’d rather just have free perks base kit to make up for the disadvantage but then what’s the point of having perks in the first place?
-7 -
Absolutely my friend 💯
I also read your post this morning and upvoted it. Very detailed. I wrote up my own as well, as I learn more and more about all the details the more my opinion is shifting to understanding that these changes were an obvious issue.
-3 -
Just gave your posts a look though — very much agree. I think I forgot to mention the Krasue's add-ons in my post, but you're completely right that a lot of them are very samey. Would like to see more variety when she hits live.
-6 -
So, what was your kill rate on the supposedly survivor-sided PTB?
-4 -
Notice how you're being heavily downvoted but no one has attempted to counter your point.
Absolutely. I'm firmly in the camp that extreme tunneling and slugging need to go. They make Survivor (which can already be very unpleasant in solo queue) an even worse experience, but these changes were SO overboard that they just made Killer overall horrible. Simply shifting problems from one side to the other helps no one — at that point it's about vengence and not game balance.
-6 -
you understand if these changes went through you would only get nurse, blight, billy, ghouls in your match cause they are the only ones who would be able to consistently keep up with all of it right? even if u nerfed the numbers or did tweaks on it. no one would even think for a sec playing someone like Pig, sadako, bubba cause it would just be a huge miserable handicap
as someone who love playing both roles equally, my option would either play soloq surv vs a meta Nurse or play the Meta nurse myself if this patch went through
-6 -
There is no way to check for stats on a PTB. I also didn’t say it was survivor sided. The reduction anti tunnel/slugging isn’t a reduction. It’s a complete ban. Quite a difference.
-2 -
And your solution is? Rollout what they had on the PTB or?
Genuinely curious.0 -
I love how you’re getting downloaded just because you looked at my post. 🤣
God forbid.
-5 -
Most people aren't here for honest discourse / actually don't know what they're talking about, so it is to be suspected that there's a lot of reactionary nonsense.
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honey that's your problem not to use aura reading perks at all don't blame it on the survivors when u are out right refusing to put on a perk that solves your problem and gives u more pressure BBQ is all u need it just a joke be be like i can't find anyone
1 -
Maybe it's just me, but I personally saw maybe 1 appreciation post for the changes for every 50 posts that were mad about the changes. Also "My opinion is why you shouldn't have cancelled it" is an entitled statement to make. Like sorry you have to wait a little bit longer for them to make it better? I know this may be hard for survivor mains to hear, but the reason the developers aren't listening to you in the way you want to is this mentality survivors have had for years that their opinions are superior and killers aren't allowed to have any strategies and have to play in a way that caters specifically to their wants, which is to escape. For that reason they can't just destroy all forms of every killer strategy. I know it's so shocking to find out that the other sides job isn't to cater to you in a pvp game, wild concept.
They will do their best to make it so there's still instances where strategy is allowed, but also still punishing the forms you all actually hate which is the hard tunneling early in the game. Personally when I play survivor that's all I ask, I don't want to be the first one found then the killer ignores everyone else on the planet to go after me then tries to claim it was "because I was the weakest link" but they didn't go after anyone else to know that for sure. I made a massive uproar about it during blood moon because that's all killers were doing.
That is not what that system in the PTB is promoting. There were instances in the PTB where a survivor wouldn't be tunneled AT ALL, but it was still possible to punished by the anti tunnel system. You call that a good system that should be implemented? I sure as ######### don't. I don't even care that that will be bleeped out because it's stupid. It's stupid.
-6 -
Yeah I noticed.. its why I hate downvotes.
-10 -
Should some one tell him he can replace the word survivor with killer and vice versa and he has the exact same post that as already happened a bunch of times?
Ironic truly so.
5 -
The soloq one trick circle jerk is insane rn. I swear trapper with his m2 unbound is too much for these people.
Your loud minority balancing opinion didn't make it to live (yet) so you came on the forums to have a melt down.
"not interested in the opinion of survivors for more than a year " I have never seen a role with so many tools, basekit perks and mitigation systems at their disposal get pampered more than any other game. All the base kit additions are not good enough, the resolve meter is not good enough, all the powerful tools are not enough.
But then again I think this sums up the mentality of most people on here.
Too much ig.
-15 -
Because there is nothing to retort. Your statement is so vague it can be applied to basically every change to the game? New perk all the stuff applies flashlights tool boxes medkits. All of those for your statement. You can't make a non-arguement with generic nonspecific claims and then pat your self on the back when no one bothers to parse it.
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I hardly use any aura reading perks cause i can find survivors just fine without it mostly i use other unconventional perks to locate survivors like Surveillance and Spies from the Shadow for the slower killers and Lethal Pursuer + one other aura reading perk for high mobility killer. BBQ isn't that good either we've had it for years and survivor players already know full well how to counter it by either hiding in a locker or behind a gen. Slow killers that don't really have any mobility can't really benefit from it so only killers like Nurse, Billy, Ghoul, Blight, Wesker etc with high free mobility can benefit the most from it.
-3 -
What is the purpose of this comment other than fanning the flames of the “us vs them” toxicity? It’s really getting old.
8 -
Nothing will change because right now most of the time I face them so your post is kinda non valid
-5 -
So true hun, game is stale and it's 2025 yet we still have same old boring tunneling/slugging and this ptb just scrapped without any changes devs are so scared to push it live and let us players from other platforms to test it and make our own opinion, they literally just limiting any ptb to steam dictators that nukes it few days by doomposting
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This is going to be the norm for a while until the crashing out is over.
-2 -
theres literally a 1000+ hour bubba main advocating for these changes..
10 -
I think it's a fair reaction to be honest. Retribution is ultimately the wrong path to take and giving the system more time is good, but players need time to doom post about losing what would have made the game feel better for them. Especially given how chaotic people on the opposite end of the changes were acting before the delay was announced.
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