Why are people crashing out on these forums about the changes being delayed?

Its abit of missplaced anger. Most everyone knew the changes couldn't go to live as is. Because of BHVR's horrible track record on time frames, ppl are willing to accept lighting the whole house on fire to warm themselves up knowing bhvr might take YEARS before trying another PTB that is maybe abit closer to reasonable. Instead of blaming BHVR for bothering putting something so obviously problematic on PTB, people would prefer to vent at anyone who pointed out the glaring issues for BHVR's all or nothing attitude.

They could've tried out a handful of their proposed changes to test it out. Instead they tried like 15 basekit changes at once knowing there's no way it would work.

There already have been requests for real evidence, and I never actually saw anyone post the real evidence.

And if there was a lot of real evidence, I’m sure some of the people on these forums would have posted it by now.

It’s just not believable that these false positives are happening enough to be a problem.

The issue is the stuff on the PTB wasn't just hitting tunneling people. You had alot of killers just trying to avoid getting hit my penalties knowing if they chase the "wrong" person off a gen, the game is going to screw them over. There was no timer keeping track of how long a survivor was off hook or anything when dealing with the punishments. Someone could have been working on gens for 2 minutes after unhook, and the game would recognize it as tunneling if the killer failed to get a hook on someone else before chasing them. If you really wanna see videos of games not involving tunneling that got hampered, ill link em. I thought by now ppl knew this was happening.

The problem is that these changes wouldn't just punish hard tunneling and were way too abusable creating loose loose situations for killer.

As an example: imagine game is at 2 gens and you hooked one survivor twice everyone else once and now that survivor that you hooked twice sits in front of you on a gen. What do you do? You have to get him of the gen but...

• you cant just down him and leave him there cause of antislugg he will just pick himself up and do the gen anyway
• You cant just let him sit there cause ur job is to protect gens and kill so you need to somehow get him off. You can ofc just chase someone else but that means that gen is definitely gone
• You cant hook him cause then everyone gets omega speedboosted with repair speed and you also lose the ability to kick gens.

In this situation as a killer you lose not matter what you do even though you are not hard tunneling cause he is right there doing a gen in your face.

I personally agree that they need to change something to make survivor solo queue more bearable. But if you roll out changes that tip the balance too much in the other direction you will then have the problem that noone wants to play killer anymore and surv queues explode and the killers you get will mainly consist of blights, nurses and ghouls.

You just replied to yourself btw... not sure who you were trying to message there.

Hot take fun is the only thing that should matter.. know why dungeons and dragons still exists and is popular in the year of our Lord 2025? Because at any point rules and be back seated for fun. It's the only thing that matters for the health of the game.

Maybe the solution is just to start the game with 3 survivors at 3 gens so that killers don't lose there fun. It will still be a 4v1 game but the game starts with the killer sacrificing the 4th player (bot) making everyone happy.

Yes. I experienced it, and there are videos made from people like quiet kills, hens, otz, and theMrheadache demonstrating this issue

I'm talking about selfish fun. Would it be fun if survivors still had to suffer from first down Moris on any killer? No because first down mori's was downright unhealthy for the game. This PTB would have been disasterous for the games health as slightly slaps a couple killers and puts weaker killers in an EXTREMELY rough spot and the only thing they got back for it was… 10% haste for 10 seconds, 20% current regression pop (which isn't that good) and slightly watered down BBQ and chili. Weak killers simply cannot make good use out of these against good survivors.

This would have sacrificed so much of the enjoyment of killers that aren't even that good for making newer/casual players feel not as bad for dying in a game they're not even good at… Which makes me question if you ARE actually casual for dbd why do you care if you get tunneled? Slugging I can kinda get but chase is legit THE most interactive part of dbd. If you don't like being chased idk what to tell you. It just doesn't make sense. Also DBD is a Player versus Player game, its always gonna be competitive no matter what even if you want to deny that. If you want a horror experience with other people, there's plenty of co-op horror games out there that doesn't have the killer being an actual person.

Also DND isn't a fair comparison. You can legit make ANY scenario with DND as it's a sandbox.

I get it to some extent. Alot of the arguments made for and against some of this stuff was a whole lot of "if the planets align just right while im standing on 1 foot, someone can abuse this to be a slight annoyance". The way BHVR set this up was overly complicated in some ways for seemingly no good reason. If the game can track that im chasing survivor A while survivor B hasn't been chased for the past minute after the unhook, wouldn't it be obvious from just that survivor B isn't being tunneled?

Alot of this stuff really feels like you can't avoid making a situation that'll get abused in SOME way though. If someone can gain extra benefits beyond the what the spirit of the change had in mind... that can easily be the new norm. Do you want a survivor you CAN hit tanking shots for his teammates or do you want a survivor you CANT hit following you around to make uncounterable pallet/flashlight saves? I'd really like to figure out a fair way to stop ppl from getting tunneled off hook, but people get VERY creative with these changes.

they got me.

The problem in question only occurs on the PTB and is therefore measured as such.

I never said anything different.

I don't personally mind, but it certainly invites tunneling, which doesn't seem to be a good fit for a mechanic meant to prevent tunneling and punishes killers that do not wish to tunnel.

This is two different things.

The first part is an issue of player enjoyment. Does this, or does this not make for a better game?

The second part is whether the design fits BHVR's goals.

I believe the first part is far more important, though trying to gauge overall player impressions can be incredibly difficult. I think the second requires guessing at BHVR's goals, which is also very difficult given their scattered communications, and I believe tend to get oversimplified by the community.

Broadly speaking, I think many people talked themselves into the idea that BHVR was forcing players to play in a certain way. I do not think it is their intention to completely remove tunneling or the possibility of an unhook acting as a defender, but to make those tactics less viable.

Who knows? Apparently none, hence the delay - no one has a full scope of the PTB process or codin

Part of the issue is BHVR has been talking about anti-slugging coming for a long while. Both possibilities justify player anger:

1: They listened to bad arguments

2: They released an update so poorly designed they had to walk it back entirely.

There are lots of ways this anger could have been mitigated or anticipated (it should have been no surprise there was going to be massive backlash). I, and I think a lot of players, are past the point of giving them the benefit of the doubt.

No. I'm stating that claims made WITHOUT EVIDENCE do not hold up and should be disregarded - I'm pretty sure this is clear from my wording.

This is axiomatic. It is a truism that could be probably be applied to the forums at any point and, as I'll get to later, I think you're doing the same thing.

I'm directly talking about a tool on the PTB (in my example) that can be used the same way 100% of the time. In this instance, it's body blocking with Elusive. Any player on the PTB can emulate this tactic with zero practice.

Right now you are, but that didn't come up to the second page of the discussion. Until then the post could have been about anything.

Reality is true. People's opinions can adhere to this or not, but there is always evidence of what is real and factual whether it lines up with someone's personal take.

But your posts don't do that.

Despite arguing about people not using evidence, you don't either. You're just relying on 'it's out there' and put the burden on people to disprove a potentially moving target. There are lots of arguments out there, absolutely, but which of them prove the issues you are talking about?

This also relates to my other point, one good argument that supports a position is worth far more than hundreds of arguments that do it poorly.

Nice chatGPT response. He doesn’t have to spoon feed you every example, they’re all over multiple platforms. You’ve proven you have no leg to stand on by pretentiously arguing semantics instead of engaging any actual points he brings up.

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