http://dbd.game/killswitch
Does DBD favor killers?
Comments
-
Did fog vials really tip the balance though? They didn't even really have time to. They got about a week of usefulness. Most people who liked them thought they were more fun than practical. I was mostly using them as a meme item and saw much of the same from others. Meanwhile, most of the complaints were that they were annoying, which isnt exacrly game breaking.
8 -
tbh I never actually experienced them pre-nerf so I can't speak to that but ill take your word for it
0 -
It was more how people complained about them and they were immediately destroyed. There wasn't enough time to even adjust or feel them out.
8 -
I think they’re referring to the 60% kill rate target. A lot of people believe this is “unfair” and “favors the killer side.” It’s subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion about what is “fair”.
To clarify, I think the post I'm thinking of was made by Peanits, and I distinctly remember it saying 'relatively balanced'.
Which would imply BHVR is aware and accepts that it isn't properly balanced, in favour of the killer.
0 -
Also, I don't know why my post disappeared.
0 -
I believe you mean this one
Quote part
We try to keep Killers near a 60% kill rate on average to keep matches relatively even and support the horror theme of the game, where the Killer is a force to be reckoned with and the survival is not guaranteed.6 -
Yeah, I think that's the one!
2 -
"[Survivors] can easily win by rushing gens"
EASILY
It got downvoted because it's a ludicrous statement.
6 -
ye okay—basic understanding + gamesense, using the resources around you, and not donating insta-downs is part of it. i expect that from people in my lobbies. i mean, that’s basics.
-10 -
If you think that's all there is to it, you are ignoring some facts.
Most Killers, even at high MMR, are still hitting 60% or higher KR. Ergo, even good Survivors are not able to do this consistently.
There must be something you are
9 -
Many survivors play inefficiently or throw winning positions; even good groups refuse—after a certain point in the match—to give up one person and run straight into a Full-Team-Wipe. That inflates kill rates. Staring at KR without context is misleading: even in “high MMR” you still get EZ-snacks that give you absurd value. Plenty of players simply don’t belong there—SWF-boosted or whatever—and they sink the moment they have to stand on their own. And yes: sometimes the trade is correct—deliberately losing one so that three get out safely. If you don’t accept the trade, you often end up with a four-man wipe.
KR ≠ this match; it’s not a one-game verdict. it doesn’t tell you what happened in-round—KR says less than people think.
-7 -
It says less than people think only when it doesn't support their narrative.
I could guarantee you we'd see countless posts if the KR came out to be a 40% average.
9 -
Of course it favors Killer overall. They want to keep the kill rates at 60% instead of 50% because they don't have the balls to nerf SWF for all the information it provides. When they do that, then I'll believe they're looking at both sides. Until that point, it stays the same.
-4 -
I’m not dismissing KR because it clashes with a narrative—I’m pointing at what the metric can’t show. KR is a coarse average across brackets, SWF sizes, regions/ping, map rotation, killer pool, and wildly different openers. It compresses all of that into one number and strips the how (spawn spread, hook/ trade decisions, reset timing, 3-gen states). That’s why KR ≠ the match.If the global KR were 40%, my point wouldn’t change. I’d still say it’s a limited signal and a shaky basis for balance on its own. What would be useful is stratified data (per-MMR, per-killer, per-map, SWF vs solo, early-down contexts) and then talk incentives.And that’s my core argument: rules that soft-reset early misplays create more low-quality wins regardless of where the average sits.
As long as I regularly face opponents who make elementary—easily avoidable with a bit of game sense and minimal willingness to learn—mistakes, a high kill rate says little about my performance. KR without context about opponent quality is just an outcome number. What matters is what happens in the match: player quality, spawn spread, hook management, trade calls, gen prioritization, chase quality, and the team’s macro. Consistently punishing mistakes is correct play and drives KR up—but drawing blanket balance conclusions from that is methodologically weak.
-5 -
As Killer you’re a one-man army with a clear win-con: pressure → downs → hooks → kils —> close the match. Decisions are linear, the feedback loop is direct, and “playing correctly” feels automatically right. You do the right thing, see value instantly, done.
For Survivors it’s a coordination problem: four people, one shared win. That’s where emotions take the wheel — guilt over a trade, savior instinct, fear of salt / or emotional reactions from mates, “don’t let the mate die,” “I can’t let him hit phase 2 even if it’s efficiency-wise better.” Ego-saves, tilt after an early down. That often collides with what’s macro-optimal (e.g., accept 1-for-3, actually follow through on gen prioritization, don’t force a reset — “but he wants a heal now, the gen would be smarter, but… I’ll do it anyway”). Result: risky saves, double/triple downs, full-team wipe — and KR climbs.
Add the info gap: SoloQ has basically no reliable calls; you read body language, misjudge distances, underestimate killer positioning. In SWF, comms smooth a lot of that out, but then you get altruism bias (“we save everyone”) and those hero plays that are objectively -EV.
all of that stuff factors in. for killers it’s more “natural” to play strictly for win-con. "chase, down, hook, repeat → kill" .. survivors have other motives that come before pure escape: human emotion, team spirit, situational responsibility. KR doesn’t capture that. if a killer accounts for it and plays ruthlessly—he wins a lot, KR spikes. survivors often play human: “he’s death hook, i’m going in,” “i’ll take the hit,” “i’m not leaving him.” that’s nice—but KR doesn’t measure it. sometimes that style is efficient, often it isn’t. the win-con only says: out or dead. if the killer knows this and leans in—cuts trades, taxes saves, converts distance into dead zones, locks a 3-gen, hard tunnels and pushes survivors into must-help mode—games swing his way. of course KR goes up. not because everyone is bad, but because team spirit > other emotions > escape. and KR doesn’t show that part of the truth.
-1 -
So, it isn't actually easy at all to win as Survivor. There's a whole lot of cope happening to justify not using KR's, since they are the only valid measurement we have. Without using KR's, we have a bunch of feelings and no empirical data.
It really is crazy how we have that stratified data you mentioned earlier.
We have the data per MMR. High and Low. We have some per Killer data. We have Solo vs all Groups of SWF.
I think it would be very bold to say, "Hey, just because Killers are averaging a single Kill doesn't mean they're weak!" The inverse is likewise true.
Ultimately, there is no empirical data that shows that playing Survivor and winning is easy, as you pushed earlier. There is data, if incomplete, that shows the opposite to be true.
10 -
because a lot of survivor squads just throw. Part bad matchmaking, part emotions, part straight-up inefficient play. That’s why KR sits high. If you’re even a halfways stable player and your group plays cold-blooded, max-efficiency, Survivor is still the power role vs most killers on the roster.
-7 -
Where's the large scale evidence?
Even at High MMR, where you have to win a bit to be at, Killer is still killing more than Survivors are escaping.
8 -
Large-scale dashboards would be great, but you don’t need them to see the pattern. Get yourself into high MMR (or watch verifiably high-MMR VODs), record 50–100 matches, and code the rounds. Tag opener quality (spawn spread, first two downs, hook stacking), SWF vs solo, reset timing, 3-gen states, trade calls, people throwing and when, /endgame/over commitment
That tape tells you the why KR can’t: a lot of 4Ks come from early macro errors and refusing a 1-for-3, and a lot of escapes come from soft openers. KR without round context is a blunt instrument.
Record it. Just analyze high-MMR matches. See where it breaks. It’s not that hard. You should be doing this anyway if you want to improve.
-9 -
Well can you show us then? You obviously know everything that's the problem. Give us a view and point out your theories.
4 -
Yeah, here's the thing. If there is truly high-mmr, I'm already in it.
Considering that I've been playing the game at a high-level since, I'd say probably 2019, I think I might know what I'm talking about.
You are acting like Survivors have all the agency, and Killers are purely reactionary. I am perfectly capable, as a Killer main, of putting Survivors into situations where no matter what, I get a favorable outcome.
For example, spawn spread can be annoying, but I know how to deal with it. If four Survivors spawn separately, if I find one, I know where the others are via spawn logic. I can chase one into another and hold them both in an area, thereby negating some of the damage.
Another example, first chases and quick downs matter less than you think, especially today. I find that even if I don't get a quick down, removing strong pallets is almost better. In yesteryear, there were a lot of strong pallets. Too many to burn through quickly. Now? Maps may have 3-5 strong pallets. I can get through those and make my mid to late game laughably easy.
Implying that I'm not knowledgeable (or good) enough simply because I have a different opinion is a little silly.
8 -
oufm, not hard to do the math:
vs decent survivors it takes ~25–40s to find and down someone, ~8–12s to carry and hook, plus a few seconds to pick up/position—call it ~40–55s per hook state before you even spend time patrolling or kicking. five gens are 450 survivor-seconds. if roughly three people are on gens most of the time (one kites, no goofy resets), that’s about 150s to finish. in that window a killer doing ~40–55s per state gets maybe 3–4 hook states. that’s not two deaths unless you snowball—stacked hooks, bad saves, refusing a 1-for-3, etc. even if it averages more like 2.5 on gens (some rotations/saves), you’re at ~180s, which still lands around 3–4 hooks before the gens are done. on Nurse/Blight the timing compresses; on M1s it stretches. with clean survivor macro (spread spawns, take the trade, minimal resets), gen throughput beats hook throughput—which is why “decent, cold-blooded survivors” feel favored against most of the roster until they hand you snowball windows (which many squads do).
and yup, that back-of-the-napkin ignores toolboxes, gen perks, and great skillchecks, yada yada —we’re using the raw 90s base. all of those only push gen speed further in survivors’ favor.
-8 -
Important to remember that they've also said that DCs don't count as part of their metrics, and survivors are going to lose virtually all games with a DC. So even if you only have a DC once every 10 games, which seems conservative given how awful DBD's netcode and servers are, that's still an almost guaranteed 3-4k that's not being tracked.
5 -
Spawn logic can be broken. Any half-decent squad spreads to key gens (not the spawn gens), and the first chase is routed away from teammates/key tiles into irrelevant space. If the killer commits, he bleeds time; if he doesn’t, he still lost time rotating. Holding two survivors in one zone at start only works if the team is unorganized—it happens, you take those, but it says nothing about overall balance. Anecdote ≠ data.
-7 -
So the answer we got was an extended version of "no".
See, way we see it, your first problem is your using math in a trial. That 40~ seconds? Maybe it was your first hook. Maybe you took 70~ but burnt many of the resources or injured multiple survivors in that time? Considering those what are the chances your next chase is cut down by let's say 30~ seconds. Heck it could be more depending on who and where. The second is you ignore things that the killer does that alters any kind of time table. Third is that trying to use clean numbers in a game with this much RNG and human elements is futile at best.
6 -
lol at anecdote doesn't equal data because you have only been pushing anecdotal evidence.
I control where the chase goes, not the Survivor.
7 -
how so the moment i pre-shift to the zone i like to have and build up my chase?
-5 -
You keep circling back to, “KR is inflated by bad survivor play” as if that somehow makes it irrelevant. If the average outcome across hundreds of thousands of matches, even at the highest level of play is still Killer-leaving, then the practical reality of the game is that killers are succeeding more often.
You can’t just hand‑wave that away by saying “Well, if survivors played perfectly” because that’s true of literally any competitive game. Perfect play, or even consistently good play, is purely hypothetical. In a real game, players make mistakes without even knowing.
And again, we do have segmented data for high vs low MMR, solo vs SWF, even some killer‑specific numbers, iirc. Those still show killers outperforming survivors in most brackets. If your position is that survivors are the real power role against most killers, then the burden of proof is on you to produce any real evidence of that.
Until then, KR remains the only empirical, game‑wide metric we have. It really isn't perfect, but it’s a lot better than, “I’ve seen good survivors win when they play cold‑blooded.” That’s completely anecdotal. As of right now, the actual data says Survivors aren't winning nearly as often as Killers, even when you filter for the high end of play.
9 -
If you just pre-run anytime you hear the TR, that works totally fine for me too lmao
4 -
there’s plenty of tourney/scrim footage where survivors win often and consistently (even with heavy perk/item limits on the surv side). my own escape rate is ~50%, but i mostly play solo/duo and don’t sweat escape—I’ll die for endgame plays or for good teammates. tbh, sweating my personal escape is boring; in a lost game I’d rather take a juicy last chase than hard-camp exits and pray the gates spawn far. if I cared more about the stats (and ran full SWF), it’d be different—as long as the team actually agrees not to sack themselves for nothing (though, endgame plays are fun) and we always secure the 2/3-man out when it’s there.
so y.. sounds like a you problem.
If I played purely for escapes and stats, my rate would be way higher. I don’t, though—endgame plays are fun, risky plays are fun. (and i don´t play much second chance perks)
-6 -
Soooooo, you have no evidence? You have "tourney and scrims" but you have no actual empirical data. Nothing of any meaningful scale or contribution.
You are the one making a claim. Provide proof? If you can't provide proof, you can't expect anyone to take you more seriously than the guy who thinks BHVR has it out for Killers.
6 -
there are plenty of vids and gameplay breakdowns out there (and, like I said, with heavy perk/item limits on the survivor side for the most part).
-9 -
This isn't data or proof? This is, what, 100 players maximum?
There are probably millions of matches of DBD played every day. You cannot use such a tiny, significant and cherry-picked sample to dictate what the rest of the game should be like.
10 -
But that scenario would only play out if you hyperfocus too much on one survivor, instead trying to burn though some good pallets, and then switch your focus to pressure people off of gens instead of committing to a chase that you know is going to lose you a lot of time. @Pulsar definitely explained this very well.
As a killer you are at the weakest early, and getting exponentially stronger as the game goes on, since the area you need to cover is usually getting smaller, unless YOU make a blunder and allow the survivors to break your best 3-gen too soon.And don't over-rely on gen slowdown perks either. If you can do well with a more generalist killer build, then you are set for success.
For example, use Agitation to save some time on getting people to the hooks. Brutal Strength to get rid of pallets faster, and to save some time on gen-kicking. All these little time saves DOES add up in the long run. Speeding up actions further, with perks like Fire Up can also help, since you are bound to lose some gens, regardless.
And no, you don't have to resort to tunneling or camping to achieve a win (3K or more)I don't play killer that often, but this is my general knowledge of the role, and I sit at around a 60% average kill rate - Mostly because I often times feel bad for the survivors if I win too fast.
5 -
You can't base your data on tourneys and scrims, since they function fundamentally different from your regular pub match, and do not represent what 99.9% of the playerbase is experiencing, no matter how much you want to.
Regular DBD is an entirely different game to comp DBD and needs to be looked at separately. You simply do not balance around the Top 0.1% of players if you want to keep an active playerbase. Comp DBD balances itself, since they ban perks and killers and maps and whatnot. That is not BHVR's job. BHVR needs to balance regular public matches.
In regular matches, survivors make mistakes and killers make mistakes. All in all, averaging out all of those mistakes, you still get the Killer favoring 60% Killrate. There is no denying this is Killer favored, no matter what scenario you try to think up. This is by design, of course, since BHVR wants Killers to be the power-role, but that doesn't make it any less favored to one side.
7 -
you can—balance around the good players. if folks can’t keep up, they improve and actually learn. plenty of killers don’t play clean either. weaker survivor stacks will face weaker, non-optimal killers anyway. but at least they finally have to learn the game—necessity over freebies.
not every killer is good, not every high-skill killer sweats, and weaker survivor stacks won’t face them anyway—MMR funnels them into similarly messy, non-optimal killers. if constant stomps still happen, that’s an onboarding/MMR problem, not a balance one. balance for mastery, teach the floor, and let matchmaking sort the rest.
that sounds awful. i’m supposed to bank on the survivors’ macro being trash—can’t handle basics, burn every pallet in the zone, fail to avoid a 3-gen with four ppl alive early? you can tell you “don’t play killer much.” no half-decent squad gives you that. i’m not coin-flipping my win on them neglecting their survivor macro 100%, a huge gamble that they lletting dead zones happen in still-relevant areas, and refusing to use the whole map to dodge a 3-gen—then being “happy” with the occasional win vs a potato team while handing free escapes to the rest. that’s not my role as killer.
-7 -
inb4 they nerf SWF (which technically they already did given the KR) and the game is still Survivor-sided. 😴
-2 -
I don't know that I'd say Survivor is the power role, but where I'm willing to concede is that the the strongest nerf to Survivor overall is matchmaking. I would go as far as to wager that SWFs favor far less from comms than they do avoiding pubs. With the right synergy and skill level, you very well can negate a lot of the worst aspects of the game. Not completely, but enough to where the game is both engaging and not an instant steamroll. It's why you can strike gold even in solo.
But matchmaking causes the game to be so random that those sorts of trials are rare. Without proper tools to give each individual Survivor a certain level of autonomy, the game is in a place to where they deal with incredibly frustrating gameplay with increasingly diminished returns. And at that point something has to give.
1 -
KR is a blunt cut, not proof. it doesn’t tell you why people die: trades, scuffed MMR, throws, 1-for-3s, endgame gambles, altruism, and different win logic (killer = 4k, survivors = team outcome). comp ≠ pubs, sure—but comp is an early-warning system for outliers (perks/maps/add-ons) that grief pubs too. as long as MMR plays roulette and mixes you with much weaker players, you’ll get huge outliers—stomps with 4–5 gens up. KR measures outcome, not cause. pubs ≠ comp, but comp shows the spikes. balance = raise the floor, shave the spikes. fix MMR first, then we can talk which role is “favored” with a straight face. until then, i’m playing “comp” in every lobby the game gives me—like any other PvP game. it’s PvP.
-5 -
To be honest I do feel like the game should be a least a little bit killer sided. Not by a ton heck even like a 55 45 situation. DBD is at its core a horror game and therefore you should fear the killer. It also makes surviving feel better. I agree the challenge should feel fair but yeah a little killer sided isn't nessicarly a bad thing.
2 -
Just the logic of constantly talking about “comp.”
Every PvP game is competitive by default. Queue = consent to play to win. If you want uhm.. like a "sandbox," that’s Customs.
Play how you want, sure, safe safe,—but your fun can’t come at your team’s expense. If you wanna meme, do it in KYF or with a stack that opts in.(or tune MMR so meme players get funneled into their own lobbies)
Balance should raise the floor, not erase consequences for bad openers.
PvP without competition is a contradiction. Queue means both sides are playing to win. For pure meme-vibes: KYF or stack, not randoms in live matches. Or just exept to die the momnt you only q for memes.
So yup: you balance a PvP game for competitive play—not for memes. Every PvP game is balanced around competitive play; it’s on the devs to ship MMR/matchmaking that converges to true skill fast and reliably and doesn’t dump new/inexperienced/casual/meme players into "for them wrong"-MMR pools.MMR’s job is to match people with opponents they can actually keep up with—not to shrug at a bad system with huge outliers and then balance around it so inexperienced/casual/meme players still have a “good time” while getting thrown into much stronger lobbies. That’s what happens when you leave MMR broken and tune balance off kill rates instead of fixing the matchmaking.
-5 -
What you seem to ignore or forget is that MMR goes both ways. You can get bad teammates and get absolutely rolled by a weaker Killer, but you can also face a weak nurse or blight and win easily. Again, it all averages in the end, which is where you get the Killrate values. Killrate might just be the outcome, but it is closely linked with the cause. Ignoring it because it is "just" the outcome isn't healthy. It needs to be part of the discussion.
8 -
y and i i already said this: MMR goes both ways, obviously. that’s why you need to match people cleanly. there are plenty of weak/inefficient killers and plenty of casual or just bad survivors—pair them together. i know good killers who don’t want this "super sweaty lobbies" and deliberately play soft. i know survivors who don’t go full meta and aren’t trying to deny all pressure from minute one. there are tons of casual/new survivors and casual/new killers. if you balance for the upper lobbies, plenty of players will play differently—and good MMR filters that. if you want to sweat or play clean, you naturally climb into a top slice (not top 4%) without touching the broad playerbase. my point: BHVR keeps staring at KR while the MMR is super watered-down mixing, which creates stomps that inflate the number. fix matchmaking first, then we can talk and look about a “favored role.”
-3 -
Killers are overly represented on the forums? Like they are more than 1 in 4? These posts over the last week or so show how blatantly wrong you are. Look at my comment on page 1, it's so neutral, not favoring either side and yet it has double down votes over upvotes. whether that be because people just lack knowledge or it's survivor mains down voting me without thinking, this last week most definitely shows there are more than 50% survivor mains on the forum.
When you talk about streamers that's just because survivor youtubers and streamers make pure content way more than they project their view, whereas it seems players who are originally killer mains are much more objective oriented. Not to say there aren't killer mains projecting an immensely biased view on the forums but all of the popular threads are neutral and wary at worst.
-1 -
because a lot of
survivor squads just throw. Part bad matchmaking, part emotions, part straight-up inefficient play.
But so do killers. You can't dismiss KRs because they don't show what you want them to.
oufm, not hard to do the math:
We've been over this before: Stop trying to math this game out. It is far too complex to do so. You're accounting for a grand total of zero complexities and are even assuming the killer is AFK most of the time in your example.
The reality is that no game works out according to the numbers.
Remember that motte-and-bailey thing? You're back on your witch hunt for the immaculate survivor team.
I don't know that I'd say Survivor is the power role
There is a spot where they are the power role, and that's with the process of hooking. That's where the killer has to respond to survivors instead of the other way around.
I personally think that that should be looked at, but I think that might be, as the kids say, a hot take.
5 -
I think it's exceptionally fair to say that survivors throw at a far greater rate than killers. I've made several comments in the past few days centered around that and I would say it's quite conclusive. 1 survivor in any game can decide it's gg outside of extreme skill disparity. 47% escape rate, pre map nerfs, god validation dh, bugged IW, prime CoH, when killers had weaker perks, when killers were generally weaker and when there were few killers A tier and above. Not to mention plague, oni, spirit and nurse not exactly being high play rate killers when outside of blight they were the only a+ tier killers.
Survivors always have and always will throw their game at a far greater rate than killers. It's just how it is and people who play survivor outside of 4 mans will know that to be the case.
-3 -
and yet evidently the data and mixed experience shows that isn’t the case. Inferring from your posts, it seems you play super efficiently and ‘cold-blooded’ as this is what you deem to be how the game should be played and you feel that even though you probably have a 99.999999% KR, you still feel survivor is easy; that the KR stats average (60% for killers) is only because so many games are played sub-optimally by even high MMR survivors as they are emotionally driven and not efficient..
IF everyone just played optimally and without human emotions, the game would absolutely die. You may feel that is how it should be played, but those stats and experiences you mentioned should prove that people don’t want to play that way. And if they do, you have somewhere you can go: the comp scene.
what was that expression again?“weaklings die, big deal!”
6 -
I agree. Matchmaking isn’t “random”—it pulls from broad buckets and stitches lobbies together. There are almost always 1–2 players who don’t belong in that trial. That mismatch gives the killer free value. It’s why so many games are won even in good/very good/high MMR: the lobby often includes people who clearly shouldn’t be there.
That’s how I see MMR—based on my experience, when it actually works (which it often doesn’t).Brand New Players (Baby MMR) — Heavily Killer-sided
Survivors lack game knowledge; killers dominate easily. (SWF or not doesn’t matter.)
- Tunneling: Deletes a player instantly; zero counterplay awareness. Panic unhooks + bodyblocks feed downs.
- Slug/Proxy: Total slaughter even from inexperienced killers; survivors don’t split or reset wrong.
Somewhat Experienced — Still Killer-sided
Survivors start to understand basics but lack coordination and loop knowledge. (SWF often prolongs the match, but usually doesn’t change the outcome.)
- Tunneling: Usually still a massacre/EZ win. Early tunnel at 5–4 gens forces trades → dead by midgame, even if the killer is inexperienced.
- Slug/Proxy: Works consistently; teams stack at hook and hand you doubles.
Moderately Skilled — Map/Perk decided
Both sides can win; killers can dominate with strong perks or favorable maps. (SWF = small edge.)
- Tunneling: Strong line, especially with info/anti-gen/anti-heal; mistimed tunnels waste tempo.
- Counterplay: anti TUNNEL perks, bodyblocks, safe unhooks, reset paths appear; escorts/bodyblocks peel target to strong tiles.
- Slug/Proxy: Still effective at spawn/2-hook clusters; weaker if survivors spread and pre-run.
- Tunneling: Usually EZ win. Early tunnel at 5–4 gens forces trades → dead by midgame.
Good Players — Slightly Survivor-sided
Survivors use teamwork and efficient loops. A single lost 50/50 can still snowball into killer pressure; tunnel/slug/camp can secure wins. (SWF = major edge.)
Why they usually lose the resource/time race
- Opener misplayed: Bad spawn spread → early down near a gen. Team spends HP/bodyblocks to deny first hook, but pays in time + states. Killer gets huge value → tempo lead.
- Gen economy poor: Instead of a 1 chase / 1–1–1 split, two sit on the same safe gen, create 3-gen clusters, or trade 25–30s running for 5% progress → free regress, no map pressure.
- Heal vs. tempo misweighted: Double-heals on-path (or right after an unsafe/under-hook save) burn 30–40s and hand the killer a second chance. Better: off-path reset, heal only if it creates distance, otherwise pre-run.
- Unhook macro scuffed: Unsafe saves with no escort line, no pre-run from the unhooked → 2-for-1 trades. anti TUNNEL perks/BT gets used for greed/aggro instead of buying distance.
- Pallet economy: Strong pallets dropped too early (or greeding 50/50 fillers) → later you lack anchors. Killer trades a hit for center position → wins long-term tempo.
- Info discipline missing: No quick signals (who’s on which gen, who escorts whom, where to rotate) → colliding rotations, one quadrant, zero spread.
- Weak proxy answer: Into proxy, they stay too close instead of pre-running to next tile/off-angle gen → grab/corner/re-down.
- Tunnel mitigation sloppy: No anti tunnel chain prepped; bodyblocks burn strong tiles around key gens and create dead zones → midgame fight worse.
- Killer: Still the most reliable line if opener gives you a hook near the triangle. work trough anti TUNNEL perks, cut escort lines, proxy only for guaranteed trades, slug if needed. If the chain starts burning clock, swap before you lose map control.
- Survivor: they don´t expect the tunnel, but if it happens they are know their job, ppl are ready to laser focus gens or are ready to bodyblock. (bad cover can give the killer huuge value)
- Hard tunneling still wins the games most of the time.
Very Good Players — Survivor-sided (SWF = huge edge)
Most killers win only off survivor mistakes; coordination and knowledge carry.
- Opener botched: Spread fine, but early greed on first hook → dumb 2-for-1 near key gens; killer insta gets value, grabs tempo.
- Gen split off: Stack mid or break the wrong 3-gen → little progress, free regress.
- Heal vs. tempo: Staying injured too long or double-healing on-path = 30–40s gone. Better: off-path reset or pre-run.
- Shaky unhook: Looks “ok,” but no escort line / unhooked doesn’t run ahead → 2-for-1 instead of distance.
- Pallet mistakes: Drop strongs too early inside the triangle or greed a 50/50 → hit + center position for killer; anchors gone later.
- Comms ≠ roles: Lots of talk, no roles: two escort, nobody anchors a side gen → rotations collide, spread collapses.
- Weak proxy answer: Try to brute-force through proxy instead of pulling aggro and pre-running → grab/re-down.
- Tunnel setup sloppy: anti tunnel perks chain mistimed, (players uses this perks for distance, not for trolling/ego) bodyblocks out of order; escort drags chase through the triangle and burns anchor tiles
At high level, one bad call (position/trade/route) hands the killer position + regress. One minute of messy macro deletes minutes of perfect chases/good survivor value.
- Tunneling/Slugging: Assume it every single match. It forces the errors the killer needs and breaks team coordination.
- Survivors assume tunnel from second 0 (expanded): Pre-plan anti tunnel chains, pre-run on unhook, escort away from the triangle, 1 chase / 1–1–1 gen split, off-path heals, avoid greed vaults, pull proxy outward and don’t force through it.
- At “Very Good,” tunnel/slug secures tempo—nothing more. Clean escorts + info discipline are what break it. If escorts are crisp and the killer overcommits, force a swap and take the gens they just donated.
Top-level Players (High MMR / “Comp”) — Heavily Survivor-sided (SWF nearly unbeatable)
- Opener botched: Spread’s fine, greed first hook → dumb 2-for-1; killer insta gets value → tempo swing.
- Gen split off: Not 1 chase / 1–1–1; stack mid or break wrong 3-gen → tiny progress, free regress.
- Heal vs. tempo: Stay injured forever or double-heal on-path = 30–40s gone. Do off-path resets or pre-run.
- Shaky unhook: “Safe” save with no escort line; unhooked doesn’t run ahead → 2-for-1.
- Pallet mistakes: Drop strongs too early inside the triangle or greed a 50/50 → hit + center position; anchors gone.
- Comms ≠ roles: Lots of talk, no jobs—two escort, nobody anchors a side gen → rotations collide.
- Weak proxy answer: Try to brute-force through proxy instead of pulling aggro and pre-running → grab/re-down.
- Pallet/Tile economy: Use strong pallets late and only for save routes/key zones; don’t greed 50/50s.
- Slug maement: Pick up safely (with info + position). If it isn’t safe, trade tempo and slam gens; don’t allow chain re-downs.
- No unnecessary stacking: Don’t all stack mid; keep spread so the killer can’t get a center lock + regress.
- no "wonderchases" wins the games at this point, good surviormacro wins the matches.
- Tunneling/Slugging: Standard at this tier — the low-variance killer wincon. Timed past anti TUNNEL perks, situational slug for position, selective proxy at hook clusters to lock triangle/tempo. Assume it every match.
Survivors assume tunnel from second 0 (what to do): anti tunnel perks chain prepped, escort pathing away from triangle, 1 chase / 1–1–1 split, off-path heals. No greed, no on-path double-heals. Pull proxy outward—never brute-force through it.
Post edited by oecrophy on-6 -
Not a bad point, although that gets weaker as the trial goes on as well. But those trials were all 3 Survivors dive the hook is pretty intense.
-1 -
I don't have anything to add, but I wanted to say nice work on the response. I think that's a pretty thorough roundup of what I've seen discussed over the years. 😎
-3
