http://dbd.game/killswitch
Every Game is Just Hook Trade & Tunnel – The Game is Falling Apart
Comments
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What does the number of hooks have to do with the hatch?
The hatch apears after 3K. That's the rule. So if 2 still alive = not hatch, no "abuse".
-3 -
If someone goes down performing an unhook, you toss them on that hook, and then immediately follow the still-visible trail of the recently unhooked survivor, you are still tunneling them. You just got a bonus in between. It would be no different if you slugged or ignored the other person instead.
2 -
u are abusing the mechanic to gain an in game advantage to get a 4k when u slugg someone and then go for the 4 person sure if they are on top of each other don't really matter but 99% of the time that not how it used it slug #1 and hunt for #2 for 4 Minutes that legit the definition of abusing a mechanic to gain an in game advantage because u are purposefully making the hatch not spawn it a work around the entire mechanic so u don't have to deal with it that what killer want a way around the mechanic BHVR is going to put in place
-1 -
But do even the best survivors go on 1000+ game win streaks?
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They do not.
I think Hens and his team have the record currently
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That's not an "abuse". It is using the literal mechanic. Don't forget, the hatch is already an extra chance for the last survivor to escape , even when the team already Fd up. It's a mercy mechanic.
-1 -
Think Clown is at like 450 or something, so yes, weaker Killers do get high streaks. Higher than the best Survivors in the world can manage, at any rate.
9 -
This was years ago, no idea what its at now.
5 -
I understand that Clown is good NOW.
He was not good when the streak was completed over two years ago.
you could look at nemesis, Twins, onryo or Bubba too
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It's not really a chance to escape if the entire mechanic is entirely within the killers control.
It might as well be an option in the killer setting menu for "would you like to spawn hatch" that is set to "never" by default.
1 -
You are arguing semantics. We are not allowed to use streaks unless they are on the current patch, apparently.
6 -
That's not correct.
This would be like someone complaining about Billy being weak before the rework, even though he is already reworked and is eextremely strong. Killers are stronger now, not weaker. As you pointed out, Clown specifically was even weaker back then, but now he isnt so bad.
Ergo, we can assume its even easier to hit high streaks.
8 -
Now the highest survivor SWF streak was like 200
-2 -
btw like a month ago a dude was on a 69 winstreak with trapper. Somthing almost impossible on survivor mind you even with a cracked swf team.
Ultimately with the right strategies (aka slug/tunneling) any killer is highly viable. And it's worth noting most of these streak videos consider only a win a 4k obviously you need to watch every ones to see if the person recording believes that's the case but I imagine most people feel a 3k is a definitive win so if added that clause to people's win streaks they might as well be infinite...
Post edited by BoxGhost on1 -
my last match. camping and tunneling Clown
match before that. Camping and tunneling Glitchtrap
Match before that. A tunneling Ghoul where oddly enough, flashlights could not be used at all
Match before that. Tunneling Chucky.
Match before that. A ghostface who sat by unhook to mark rescuers and tunnel
Come to think of that. Ever since they reverted the anti-tunnel update….I have yet to have a match where someone wasn't on death hook before anyone else had even been hurt. REALLY hoping survivors start to leave in mass so these killer q times increase even more. maybe then theyll change something.
-2 -
Well you can always private message if you don't wish to have people comment on your posts in a public forum.
0 -
You moved the goalpost, so I will not be moving my answer. I gave you winstreaks, but that didnt fit the narrative you wanted to construct. I'm sure you can find some on your own.
Yes, Pig is stronger now than she was years ago. She's had a lot of excellent QoL.
5 -
Same question define tunneling?
If you mean killer going for one survivor ignoring others from the start or in early stage of the game thats tunneling for me thats need to be punished but hooking one person twice in a row doesnt mean to be direct tunneling for me like someone stepping in trappers trap or hags, being found injured in deadzone or someone using his antitunnel as shiedl for bodyblocks and then getting chased down and hooked isnt direct tunneling for me and this shouldnt be punished.
Genrushing for most people is team of survivors which has direct build for fast gens but if surivors spread and do gens supper effective (2-3 gens to the killers first hook or ended chase) and fast even ignore killers presence and fact they are injured then this isnt good either, survivors actualy can get many gens done if they spread and do them insted other actions and this isnt hard because in early stages of the game killer has to go through many paletts which means normaly 2-3 gens get done near first or second chase and then some paletts are broken and gen deffence which are the most used perks and strongest perks killer has they work with hooks most of them like pop,pain res,grim embrace,deadmans switch. There should be some basekit dying light which will slow gen speed or some other factor that increases gen regression if killer has like 2-4 hooks on last gen if they should be punishments for hooking same person twice which is ok inearly game but hardcore not to do in endgame and abuseable by smart teams like bodyblocks are (they are same as slugs just diversion for other survivors to waste time and for downed one to not being able to do objective or heal back).
-1 -
I mean you can argue it is. If the max winstreak form one side is 1900 and the other side is 253 then you can extrapolate a few things from this. One something is very wrong with the killer in question in this case blight. And to a lesser extent a 1000 winstreak nurse and a 600 winstreak oni. Or the role has inherent advantages resulting in the peak level of play for both sides having horrible unbalanced highs which means most likely the lows for each sides are much lower and the median is lower. Which we can see even in high MMR I believe a swf averages 43% escape rate but it drops lower for each tier of play. Another conclusion would be that certain people exist that exhibit super human levels of play that can't be matched or seen in other competitive type of games as you won't find winstreaks like that anywhere on the planet not is fps strategy games like chess or RTS like SC or games with a sports theme like rocket League or fifa
so balance is definitely out of whack so who knows if it's balanced around top tier players but that would explain how some killers get the streaks they do since those SWFs are incredibly rare
0 -
I have no idea who you're talking about. Pig has been getting buffed for years.
Pretty sure OnePumpWillie has a 210 streak with Trapper that ended recently, iirc. No gen perks either.
Seems like even the weakest Killer on the roster can do pretty damn well for themselves, even when you have people who move the goalposts to fit their narratives.
Winning 200 times in a row should not be possible. Let me flip the question, should we address the minor inconsistency or the massive inconsistency first?
Because 200 is a lot closer to 50 than 2000 is to 200.
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I don't like when people cite winstreaks when discussing balance, so many factors (time of day, playstyle, MMR, or the random gamble of getting 1000 bad teams in a row) can change everything.
-3 -
I mean, at a certain point, it becomes virtually impossible to be luck
7 -
It's the uncertainty that's the issue, the fact of the matter is that we know in a match with comp rules(which heavily favor the Trapper) that Trapper can never hope to get anything more than a 2k.
-2 -
I agree but really before you can buff killers you need to balance the play styles that people are using to win. For example some one who's goal is to 12 hook the team evenly will never compete with a master tunneller or slugger. Buffing and or nerfing killers around the play style of the individual is impossible they need to remove one of the styles of play or buff one way or nerf anoteerre. Adjusting a killer like blight to make him weaker would me that high level player who 12 hooks the team before a kill (no matter how hypothetical) can do it and consistently win. But that the one tunneling at 5 gens can't abuse how strong he is to create unwinnable scenarios for the other team.
And this is the crux of the problem no killer balance can be achieved with play styles that so drastically effect the out come of the match. Any buff while seeming like a good pick me up for your average killer is used like a sludge hammer to some one tunneling. I would love killer that felt unstoppable I recent got into a PTB match vs a blight that was clearly multiple tiers of skill level above me and my team and he 12 hooked us testing the new system and we only turned 2 gens on before we all died. The game was fun as hell because no one just didn't get to play. I knew as the player that we all lost together and if I was playing with a friend one of us wouldn't be spectating for 8 mins.
But tunnelling requires behavior to strictly keep killers very weak and manageable to stop people from quiting the game from not being able to play.
-1 -
Why would we care about comp over pubs?
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Because you're talking about balance.
-7 -
Wait, so spreading out is gen rushing? Even without perks or toolboxes? They're just doing the objective. You getting caught in 90s+ chase isn't being gen rushed, it's you blowing it.
But if you use that first version, with builds included, how often do you see a team fully stacked with gen perks or BNPs? Not often? Basically never? Now how often do you see tunneling? Not every game, but far more than the gensquad.
And basekit gen regress was exactly what was proposed in the patch.
Post edited by cogsturning on0 -
We'd know the same way we know about the killers: they'd make a big ol spectacle of it on social media.
And yes, that's absolutely true. You shouldn't base the game around them. But their insane numbers are what's hiding the problems for lower-performing players and lower tier killers who need work.
3 -
Comp is further away from balance than pubs.
Post edited by Pulsar on6 -
Ignoring that you never specified, originally, WHEN the streak needed to be from or that it needed to be from people you approved of….
Yes. I think any Killer is viable in the right hands.
5 -
- Killing efficiently bad, doing gens good
- Everything is tunneling, genrushing is just a niche build. (Bet 3 peeps with boxes but 1 without isnt genrush lol)
- Genrush is just doing the objective, tunneling is not
- Delay hatch bad, delay egc good (both being disadvantageous gamestates)
- Long chases killer skill issue, short chases killer op, toxic stragey etc
Did i miss some?
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Engage your critical thinking skills and stop mindlessly diving the hook…
1 -
Wait a minute...what?? That is insane. Killer goes for the unhooker, downs him and hooks him and starts chasing the unhooked and you call that TUNNELING?? He ignored the unhooked, chased and hooked rhe unhooker so fast, that your trails are still visible?? And you call that "tunneling"? That's entitlement galore. So the killer is not allowed to go for the unhooked and not for the unhooker? So what is the killer supposed to do?
2 -
You mean you didn't know?
Role: killer
Task: Under no circumstances are you to do your objective of killing survivors, you must observe only.
Until the gens are completed you are to stay a recommended 32 meters away from any survivor, once complete you are to stand at exit gate and watch as survivors crouch up and down rapidly until they deem it their time to leave.
Apparently ....
-1 -
Oh yeah, because if the killer isn't applying enough pressure giving us time to do gens then we should just run around aimlessly instead of doing the only objective at hand and wait around to get killed killed. Gen-rushing is almost nonexistent, I'm sorry to tell you. I'm not going to say "skill issue" because I'm generous enough to actually consider people have the skill, but I'm pretty sure if generators are popping, you aren't doing something right.
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Tunneling and gen rushing are the same thing I'm afraid, as in, they both achieve either sides objectives with the most efficiency.
-3 -
Spreading out is very strong and even if killer gets 90 seconds to get down its 2-3 gens done which is strong thats like 40-60% of survivor main objective second one is gates which take 20 seconds without any perks and killer has to get 12 hooks to get his objective done on 100% but realistic is around 6 hooks which can be hard if survivors play smart and loop well thats why you see that tunneling especialy on weaker killers on which is normal to have 4 hooks on last gen.
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That's just not what he said though, is it? He was talking about a hook trade. Way to misrepresent the statement, holy… Have some self-reflection.
"If someone goes down performing an unhook."
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I'm saying the unhooker goes down at the feet of the unhooked. A trade. No chase. That gives the only unhooked a few seconds of space. You'll catch up to them almost immediately, you just don't have to count to ten anymore.
And yeah, I guess i think people are "entitled" to a moment to reorientate because I don't do it as killer. Unless that person does something stupid like try to sabo or hop right back on a gen instead of leaving, I just go after someone else while they run off to heal.
-1 -
Ridiculous. If you're seeing tunneling this often then everything the killer does is tunneling. It's not that prevalent.
-1 -
So your unhooker was already injured? Or do you asume every killer can insta down?
And no, they should be on the edge of their seat, ready to react right awaya after the unhook. All this baby caring sucks. I already hated it, when they came up with "invu frames" until the survivor gained control. Now they are even got extra protection with Endurance and for crying out loud: is it true, that the Devs removed the grab option while unhooking??
-3 -
If the unhooker is making a desperate trade, they might be injured already. Or they might get hit during the save, making them let go, and then manage on the second try, but then go down immediately. That happens pretty regularly in both my survivor and killler matches.
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If that happens to you regularly… you might consider… just maybe… survivors play STUPID!
-3 -
Sure, but how is that the fault of the person being unhooked? They have no control. The team is not a hive mind, they're individuals. I'm not going to target one person because another screwed them over.
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But you can't ask for safety nets for every bad gameplay decision. If someone of the team is making a bad play, the team takes consequences, one way or another. But you ask to take away th killers chance to benefit from their mistake. Is that fair for killer? It's like I would ask, that a random survivor is teleported on a hook, when all gens pop, before I got a K. Killer do not get extra chances, why do survivors get them?
-3 -
Actually we can ask for that, nobody wants to play a game where if one side gets the advantage the game is literally over.
The Killer still benefits from slugging, even if there is a limit. One Dwight sucking dirt is one Dwight not doing a generator.
2 -
The PTR changes need to happen and they needed to happen YESTERDAY. So many killers are just tunneling and proxy camping AND HAVE BEEN FOR YEARS.
Anti-camp is joke. Solo Q has always been awful. Killers have a steady and ridiculous power creep with every new killer release. The devs simply do not care because plenty of people will buy their killers for the opportunity to play a one-sided game. I have not given this company money in 7 years and will not be doing so again because they cater to the lowest form of human life. The game is bad because it’s designed to be bad for 4 people and a power trip for 1. And I say this as a killer main.2
