Honestly, I am done for now and I hope you are too

This entire post completely waters down the issues with the changes that they made. Also you totally made up how long it is until they test it again, they did not specify how long it was going to be. Though honestly, if you really need a long break from dbd just because a change isn't going live because it was bad for the game, then maybe you should take a break whether or not this is rage bait or real.

Just gonna respond to some of the things in here.

DS is quite literally a second chance perk. It essentially reads as "If you lose a chase and are picked up within 60 chances of being unhooked, no you weren't". Second chances are not always bad, but this is a second chance perk. Like, by definition. It's a fair perk to have but it is second chance. In the "survivors have 0 agency in their unhook" situation that is a teamplay issue, and cannot be blamed on the Killer.

"Killer second chance" is so cooked into the core of the game because the entire match revolves around Killer clawing advantage away from the Survivors. Survivors start away from the Killer, they have full charges on their items, they have no hook states, no one in need of healing, and the map is flush with pallets. The Killer starts at a disadvantage and doesn't really get their footing until the first down, growing that advantage steadily throughout the match. The two roles are fundamentally different and the game cannot function without that passive advantage gain for Killer.

"bloodlust is second chance, there is not a single god loop in the game". Someone's never played The Hag before I guess (even when you set trap they just rotate to next loop, have another Survivor clear trap at god loop, and then rotate back it's misery). Even now there's some loops that would be problematic if not for the existence of Bloodlust such as Dead Dawg and Garden of Joy main. Most Killers have the tools to contend with these, but some don't and that's why the mechanic exists.

In a hook trade the Killer is not gaining a second chance to have someone on hook, they are accepting a literal trade (often just taking advantage of a misplay). If anything, a hook trade is the Survivor gaining a second chance to not advance a hook stage.

You're right we should bring back the self-unhook action I'm sure that's a wonderful idea.

"They havent been hooked yet". The Killer has multiple win conditions whereas Survivor only has one, escape. This is a fact of the game that needs to be accepted before continuing further. Granted, the Killer's win condition can be simplified to "All Survivors dead, hooked, and/or slugged without recourse", but that is multiple conditions with slugging only included because it is a pre-condition to getting killed (outside of EGC). Comparing this situation to gens being done is silly, and I think you know it's silly lmao

If “90 seconds is a LONG time”, then anti-slugging doesn’t need to happen. Why should BHVR implement an anti-slugging solution that would majorly upset killers, but would “barely help” survivors at all?

But it wasn’t a small chance. Survivors zoomed so quickly while slugged, that if a killer was forced to slug a survivor to chase a teammate, there was a big chance the slugged survivor would be long gone by the time the killer got back.

And the fact that Deerstalker got reworked, showed that BHVR wanted slugged survivors to be extremely difficult to find, which means killers would be punished for any slugging at all, even if the survivors forced the killer to slug.

This has been the way I have seen if for a long time which is why I struggle to understand why such hate towards slugging but nothing towards being hooked. hook timer is about 70sec per phase I think? that's 140sec on hook in total if no one frees me. If slug timer is too long just set it so its 140 sec same as hooks? it still means hooks are better because 3 hooks and the survivor is eliminated but doesn't mean 3 downs and they are eliminated.

theres pros and cons to both slugging and hooks. slugging circumvents hook stuff like perks and basekit endurance but the pro side is the slug can move and they require the killer to camp them for 4min instead of 140sec.

regardless of hooks being part of the gameplay loop, the fact remains the same, hooks remove the players from participating in the match the same if not more so than being slugged but hooking is deemed acceptable. if the criteria for making this acceptable is to be part of the gameplay then make slugging part of the gameplay? saying its part of the gameplay loop to justify a boring mechanic the removes players from playing the match but then demonize an identical mechanic that does the same thing because its not considered part of the gameplay loop doesnt make sense to me.

some killers can yes, but other killers cant. these are the killers im refering to, with no speed and no anti loop like myers, pig, death slinger, trickster, ghostface, houndmaster. these killers cant catch survivors at certain loops without bloodlust, vault blocking or major misplay by survivors.

what anti loop does myers have or ghost face?

stealth maybe…depending on the loop. pointless having stealth if they can see me over the top of a wall or through the cracks in the walls at the shack. taking 2 health states i wouldnt say is an anti loop as you need to catch the survivors to be able to use this ability so its for use after the loop not to counter the loop.

yes but my point regarding god loops is that without bloodlust or vault blocking then some killers cant catch the survivor because they dont have the speed or anti loop. which is why bloodlust and vault blocking became a thing. taking 2 health states involves the killer being able to catch the survivor at the loop, it doesnt stop the loop which is what anti loops do.

have to force the pallet to drop first, lots of maps have a shack and if 1 loop can be a god loop that it breaks the game. there is a reason why bloodlust and vault blocking was introduced. cant honestly say 1 god loop isnt an issue. survivors shouldnt be able to hide or run to the shack or wherever this 1 god loop is and be safe for unlimited amount of time which was the case before they introduced bloodlust and vault blocking. now its not so bad because these mechanics have pretty much removed all god loops, now there are strong loops but not god loops. but removing these bloodlust and vault blocking mechanics creates god loops which myers and other killers that dont have powers to counter looping simply wouldnt be able to do anything about.

badham for example, had a new window in the upstairs of a house to stop people from being body blocked in the small gap by the gen. the result was a god loop that survivors could run indefinitely, never triggering chase. this was pretty recent and was also changed back pretty quickly because having this god loop broke the map.

If I waited a whole month before I could get a pizza, doesn't mean I would accept a pizza with anchovies on it.

This patch was TERRIBLE For killers and trust me, if they had pushed this patch through even with tweaked numbers, every game you played would be vs. those killers listed in the patch notes for getting less benefit from the new system and even then, your queue times would skyrocket as survivor.

Punishing killers for taking advantage of survivor mistakes is NOT the way to prevent tunneling and if they ever do that, MANY killer mains will quit. I know many survivor mains think that would be great cause only the 'nice' killers will remain, but it will only be the S-tier killers.

Frankly, the only reason most Killers tunnel is because the Survivor team misplays and grants them the opportunity to. If the most effective way to play is handed to them, why shouldn't they take it y'know?

I don't blame Survivors for using infinite loops like they did back in the day, nor for abusing currently exceptionally strong loops. That's their prerogative. But again, the mechanic exists for the Killers (characters, not players) who cannot adequately handle it and maintaining the power role is key to the game's flow. And there are several meta-viable options for keeping the Killer from exploiting a particular Survivor too much. Mostly this is in the form of perks (Unbreakable, DS, OtR, Shoulder the Burden, etc.) but also exists in the form of teamplay. Taking protection hits, flashlights, flashbangs, cranking gens, threatening pallet saves, etc. These are all methods in which Survivors can curb the impact of the Killer exploiting that one Survivor. The only situation in which a Survivor is effectively helpless in the situation is if there's little to no teamplay on the Survivor team and they're paying the opportunity cost of not taking preventative perks. Which feels bad, sure. But it's a confluence of factors that all need to be taken into consideration.

That's what Hag wants to do. Good Survivor teams do not let Hag do what she wants to do. If you haven't experienced the abject misery of having your Killer kit fully exploited by two Survivors while the others do gens then I envy you, truly.

Again, Bloodlust exists to alleviate pain points for specific Killers (as well as future-proofing the game for future loops). Let's swap examples. The Oni does not have a power that deals with loops until he has earned it via landing an M1. Often he has to rely on Bloodlust in order to obtain that hit because there just exist some loops that are too strong for him to reasonably deal with otherwise. He can't effectively switch targets, because he has a regular Terror Radius and good Survivors will pre-run him all day long. Straight up, he has no option to deal with it until he's already landed the M1.

I think your definition of "second chance" is far too broad. In fact, I think it would be less of a stretch to say that a Survivor getting healed is giving them a second chance as they can now take another hit. Unhooking a Survivor? That's a second chance. They already lost their chase they should be dead. etc. It's an extremely narrow way to view the game in a way purposefully skewed to your, seemingly, preferred role.

Dead Dawg is widely considered to have one of the best main buildings in the game, alongside Garden of Joy. I am specifically referencing these loops as problematic because Survivors worth their salt will beeline to these loops in times of need. The maps as wholes are not being considered because we're talking about how Bloodlust interacts with problematic loops.

Survivor is balanced around teamplay and some level of coordination. It is not the Killer's fault that the Survivor team is not coordinated enough to orchestrate an unhook maneuver using that classic pincer style. Again, I also think that your definition of "second chance" is off, and should be something you personally revisit.

Either side can win while at a disadvantage, as is the nature of a tug-of-war style game flow. I don't really see where you're going with that honestly. Seems like kind of a silly extension to a silly rant.

The basekit buffs for Killers are their own can of worms, primarily because they don't benefit Killers equally and are not genuinely exploitable like the anti-tunnel and anti-slug mechanics were. They just weren't a good solution to the issue.

The Killers who are most negatively impacted would be, The Twins, The Oni, The Onryo, The Pig, The Trapper, and The Hag. The first two are fairly obvious as they're the Killers that slug as a function of their power (they aren't alone in this. For example, The Knight occasionally slugs as a function of his power and could be specifically negatively affected as well). The next two have alternate kill mechanics that do not rely on hook stages, with The Pig's being something that the Survivor is ultimately in control of rather than the Killer. These obviously have issues. The last two have powers that are reliant on Survivor mistakes, making inadvertent tunneling something that can just occur from normal gameplay. In fact, the proposed mechanics actually made the last two pretty abusable. Take this scenario I played out in the PTB 9.2.0 for example. Playing the game as The Hag and hooked three Survivors once each. My fourth hook was on one of the first two Survivors I had hooked previously with two gens left. Mind you, I'm playing the game as the Survivors wish and spreading hooks fairly evenly. That Survivor, knowing that if I kill him I am basically guaranteed to lose the game, proceeds to just run through all my traps after getting unhooked. If I kill him I am limited to 1k, maybe 2k if I play it right because of the gen bonus speed and no regression. Killing him is off the table. If I slug him, he will either get up on his own after 90 seconds or, more likely based on how the team was playing, will pick him up while I try to reset web and he'll do it again. Slugging is off the table. The Survivor has exploited the mechanics to force me to either settle for a 1-2k, or play without traps until I get another hook on someone else as a powerless 110% Killer. The impact of these changes reaches far beyond just The Twins, and it's unrealistic to say we should rework all six of these Killers likely months (if not years knowing BHVR) after pushing changes that either kneecap them or can be exploited and weaponized against them. It's just not how the game should be designed or balanced.

These anti-slug and anti-tunnel mechanics just were not healthy for the game in the state they were presented to us. Instead of complaining about how they weren't implemented, it is far more beneficial to talk about how they could be altered to make them a healthy change to the game.

I do not care about MMR. I also know that the game is balanced in such a way that extremely skilled and coordinated Survivor teams stomp even Killers who do tunnel and slug. At some point you have to realize that these mechanics are balanced, and even designed around, in DbD. The changes presented in the PTB 9.2.0 didn't really take that into consideration, which is why they failed phenomenally.

i can axplain very easily how to win that match, i have won many matches like that. its called hatch… thats my point. as survivor the killer can wipe out my whole team at 5 gens. There is a reason i go into every match with hatch offering lol. chances are my team will do awful or go next, killer won…but i can still win via hatch. This scenario doesnt exist for killer, if survivors do all gens and killers get 0 hooks, survivors have won, killer cant pick up a 3 or 4k from nothing (maybe with noed).

Im aware good loops dont exist because now the game has bloodlust and vault blocking. remove them and see what happens, loops that are currently not god loops suddenly become god loops. there is a reason why bloodlust and vault blocking became basekit….to eliminate god loops.

as already stated the need to tunnel applies to top swf teams with meta perks, coms, perk synergy, offering synergy. do killers need to tunnel v solo uncoordinated teams? no, i dont think so but the killer doesnt know they are solo or swf so more often than not the killer will assume they are swf and play accordingly which results in soloq getting demolished.

If your suggesting killers boosted their mmr by tunneling, then the same must be applied to swf teams that boost their mmr by using coms and playing as part of well coordinated team. I have played against many survivors that are usually in swf and when they play solo they openly admit "never playing soloq again". Why? because they have boosted their mmr by having swf advantages that or not available to them in solo? it works both ways. killers that lose when they try to spread hooks can say the same, "never spreading hooks again".

they legit went through with the anti tunneling perk nerfs and slug nerf but didnt go through with the killer regression ones, blatant favorism tbh neither should have gone through bhvr is not cooking they did not forget they legit went over it 100%