Honestly, I am done for now and I hope you are too

I’ve been lurking cause new killer release and I’ve advocated for survivors in the past but I’m just commenting here again after literal months to let you know that other person is off the rails. Tunneling is hardly “toxic” and anyone trying to push it as such should really have their opinion disregarded.

Look, I get it. You demand the respect that you refuse to show to anybody else. And if you're not gonna get it through your thick skull that yes, "Cooperation goes both ways" applies to you as well, then you're wasting your time.

I treat Survivors the way I'd like to be treated, and if that makes you mad, well, that's too freaking bad. Your Rulebook can go to hell.

"Oh, look how mad you are, simply because I chose to believe a bad, dumb, wrong thing on purpose!"

You are not the first person to try and pathologize me simply for having a bit of self-respect, and you will not be the last.

Why would I respect someone who stubbornly refuses to listen to reason? Why would I respect someone that has no consideration for the feelings or plights of others? Those are not respectable qualities.

Here's one more thing you learn from being non-binary (Hopefully the last I'll need to share): Just because you're a minority in the population doesn't mean you aren't entitled to the same dignity, respect and empathy as everyone else. It's not okay for things to be unfair for one group simply because another has a numbers advantage over them.

And here's some fun facts about being trans/non-binary: It was treated as a disease by the field of psychiatry until fairly recently. Whether or not a trans woman was diagnosed or allowed to take HRT was based on how attractive the doctors thought they were. Trans men were infantilized and seen as unable to make their own decisions. Non-binary people were dismissed altogether.

Anyone who's marginalized, anyone who doesn't quite fit in the uniform mold of society, has been pathologized and treated as a problem to be solved by society, because of people like you.

People with some sort of gripe, who are desperate to find someone else to blame instead of doing something about it. People who feel owed power and control, and see the absence of that power and control as a humiliating insult. People who are unhappy, but also deeply unwilling to investigate why or change anything about themselves or their lifestyle.

I don't say this to claim that you're a bigot, by the way; your behavior simply follows a similar pattern.

Pragmatic? You refuse to discuss practical solutions to credible problems in the game's design, simply because I refuse to apologize for tunneling. I understand that a lot of Survivors find it frustrating, and I honestly do think it needs to go, but I won't blame myself or anyone else for doing it when it's completely legal according to the game's rules.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, you wanna brainstorm an anti-tunneling system that feels fair to both sides, I'd be happy to, but that doesn't seem to be what you're interested in here. You seem much more interested in doing character assassinations than actually solving the problem you claim to care about so much.

See what I mean? Absolutely no interest in actually solving the problem. Only interested in saying or doing whatever it takes to paint yourself as the victim and everyone else as the bad guy.

So when are you gonna start talking about what we can do to actually solve tunneling instead of just slinging insults at people for playing in a way that you don't like?

To start, I think something like Pain Res basekit would be a better reward for unique hooks than empowering the Killer's next gen-kick, because a lot of Killers (Particularly Killers with low mobility) often can't make good use of an empowered genkick- it'll often take too long for the Killer to reach the gen with the most progress.

And nothing of value was lost. I'm getting real tired of your first-year psych-student condescension.

You've literally spent this entire conversation doing nothing but attacking my character and adamantly refusing to discuss productive solutions with me. But I'm the bad guy for calling you out on it? Give me a break.

You've done everything you accused me of doing and willfully ignored it every time I pointed it out. Might I suggest you take your own advice and seek therapy? Projection certainly isn't a sign of a healthy psyche.

I think I missed my opportunity to post the Michael Jackson popcorn gif. 😣

If i remember correctly, the 5% part was the effect of the rework Barbecue and Chilli perk, not something basekit.

But i'm saying they gave a compensation for not tunneling - if you don't hook always the same survivor, you get some bonuses - but they did not give anything for slugging.

Slugging and tunneling are related but they are different strategies. Survivors got - at least on the PTB - basekit OTR, Babysitter and BT as basekit anti-tunnel, killer got BBQ, Pop and Haste as compensation; Survivors got Tenacity and a alternative Unbrekable as anti-slug and killer got nothing in return.

You see, slugging is used most of the time: 1) because you can't pickup immediately (sabo/pallet and flash save potential); 2) it generates more pressure to leave that survivor on the ground for now instead of picking it up; 3) you are afraid of the effect of some perks (Decisive, Power Struggle, Flip Flop). Killer should get some incentive to don't slug, which i believe could be faster pickup and faster mov speed while carrying. Even if in some scenarios slugging would still generate more pressure, at least you would have more incentive to pickup and hook instead of leaving the survivor on the ground.

One thing i think could be iron out is that BBQ is easily countered with lockers. I really believe they should change the aura read to killer instinct instead (or both) to discourage survivors from just hiding in lockers and leaving the killer with no clue on other survivors, encouraging to proxy camp.

Comparing Survivors rushing gens to Killers tunneling is one of those things that sounds right on the face of it, but falls apart pretty quickly when you realize that the Killer cannot effectively keep four players off of gens at once without slugging. Which, I'm pretty sure you don't want to encourage. Again, the nature of the game prevents your logic from really following through in a neat and linear way because the game isn't neat and linear.

Let me ask you this in regards to those basekit changes to gens. Did they actively ruin any specific Survivor build/playstyle? Those are roughly analogous to Killer powers (at least as analogous as exists on the Survivor side). From what I can tell, they didn't. None of these changes had such immediately negative repercussions to any Survivor playstyle. Sure, they made Survivor as a whole weaker, but they didn't unfairly punish specific playstyles to a meaningful capacity (truthfully, increasing charges to repair a gen actually makes gen rush better because those percentage repair bonuses get more total value).

The only one here that impedes a specific Survivor playstyle are the changes to map decor, which is fair. But, it also opens up the argument that perks designed to enable a stealthy playstyle gained value as a direct result. So like, even then it largely falls flat upon further inspection. Then there's also an argument that the removal of tall grass negatively impacted some Killers as well, who could (or would have had it remained e.g. Chucky) been able to leverage it to their advantage.

In regards to changes that combat the increase of tunneling and slugging you also forgot:

• Movement speed bonus upon unhook (was not part of Borrowed Time and is an additional effect for anti-tunneling specifically. Was later added to BT in 6.1.0). This was later increased from 7% to 10% haste.
• Increased duration of these effects from 5s to 10s.
• Removed ability for several Killers to place traps directly under/around hook (allowed some Killers to deny self-unhooks and immediately resume a tunnel).
• Increased hook stage timer to 70s (this is absurdly impactful over the course of a game if Survivors play it right).
• Anti-camp meter (let's be honest, camping is more or less an intent to tunnel when boiled down because it's an attempt at forcing another hook stage and getting a Survivor out ASAP; the MO of tunneling).
• Removed hook grabs (forces hook stages on a single Survivor by removing trades).

Seems like these would be relevant to mention if you had the intention of being fair when talking about both sides. I feel like I missed something too, but it's late and I don't wanna do research haha

Chase-related interactions are not really relevant changes to your specified example (gen rushing) so I won't be addressing them as that's another tangent entirely. To be 100% transparent, I think these were pretty much all good changes on both sides. I don't really possess any form of immense bias to one role over another. My goal is to keep specific Killers from being disadvantaged from the proposed changes, not balking at the idea of a change to the role.

I think I've been very clear that my overall stance is that the changes were bad largely because they ended up punishing Killers in uneven, exploitative, and even unavoidable ways. If you haven't been picking up on that being my main qualm, then I don't have any hope for this conversation to progress further. They were flawed the way they were presented to us, and they would need significant reworking to be healthy changes. I like the idea of changes aimed to reduce hard-tunneling and excessive slugging, but I would need them to be implemented in a way which only affects the Killer players actively trying to ruin someone's day. Anything else means it can crop up in regular gameplay and become problematic. That's why I already made a thread about a reworked version of these changes that accomplishes those goals. Constructive criticism over, well, balking.