http://dbd.game/killswitch
Revert the Tenacity changes
This perk got completely gutted for no reason at all. I'm assuming it's simply screwed over by the remnants of the PTB involving the anti-slugging changes, but since those changes did not go through, this perk should be reverted, at least somewhat.
Bring back the crawling and recovering option. It's small, but it's something to counter slugging killers. There is no reason for the perk to hide your aura when this effect counters the old deerstalker - which no longer exists. This was also my favorite perk to run for fun so it's really upsetting to see :(
Comments
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Tenacity should get the increased crawling speed added back, but delayed by 10 seconds, so that it's actually anti-slugging, and not "let's weaponize the perk to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet" perk.
-16 -
It looks like some kind of QA issue is popping up, the same thing happened with the Walking Dead chapter where obvious issues came to live. Pretty much none of these perk changes should've gone through(Except for Ruin buff and DMS nerf).
0 -
I swear every single form of counterplay a survivor can have is a "weapon" to be "weaponized". 😭
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Defensive perks should be 100% defensive. If a survivor is slugged for 0.5 seconds, that isn’t problematic slugging, and anti-slugging perks shouldn’t be punishing that.
-16 -
Yeah and in 0.5 seconds a slugged survivor won't get very far with tenacity, neither will he in 10 seconds really, definitely not far enough to lose track of him or his blood trail. If they reach a pallet due to tenacity, like… good for them? They literally used a perk slot to get that benefit.
13 -
If you ever complain that a killer does something unfair, can we say “good for them”?
If a killer tunnels you out of the game, then good for them!
-9 -
Wait which perk is called "Tunneling" again? Come on. You are trying to compare perks with playstyles, stop Straw-manning. If a killer uses pop on the gen with 99 progress you know what? Good for them.
Also in what world is Tenacity an "unfair" perk lol. Pick the survivor up and it did literally nothing. Check the surrounding area for survivors waiting to save, and the slugged survivor is probably still under that same pallet. In order to get value from it, the Killer has to act to allow for value to happen, not the survivor. You are way overblowing the effect of tenacity, you make it sound like a must have meta perk when in reality you mostly use it in some memey power struggle flip flop build most of the time.
11 -
Tenacity is sometimes used offensively, to immediately crawl under an undropped pallet.
As in, if the survivor didn’t have Tenacity, then the killer could have immediately picked them up before the survivor got under the undropped pallet.
But Tenacity’s increased crawling speed allowed the survivor to get under an undropped pallet before the killer could pick them up.
-11 -
That is not using the perk "offensively" that is using the perk "normally". Again like… the survivor used a perk slot that could have also been DS or whatever to get that niche bonus, you need to always put it in perspective. Let them have that value.
If a Killer uses Forever Entwined for example, and picks up the survivor just fast enough for the other survivor to miss the pallet save, did the Killer use that perk offensively? No. He just used it normally. I used that perk in particular because I'd argue it has similar if not slightly more value than Tenacity per game (If you can even reasonably compare survivor and killer perks in terms of value). And again, instead of that the Killer could have used DMS or whatever if he doesn't already, so like… Let them have that value.
8 -
But it is using the perk offensively.
It was a normal way survivors used the perk, but it’s still using the perk offensively. And it’s still punishing a killer for slugging, even though the killer hasn’t even slugged the survivor for 5 seconds.
-7 -
We are just gonna have to agree to disagree here because this won't go anywhere. We are talking about the exact same thing here just using different words to describe it, probably showing our bias along the way. I call it "Getting value" and you call it "Killer getting punished" but at the end of the day it's just someone using their perks for the intended effect.
The only thing that irks me is the "using it offensively" because like… they are just using it. The perk has always just been "Crawl faster oh and recover too while you are at it.", of course that will open up niche scenarios where you can reach a pallet before the Killer can pick you up. I don't get how that is "offensive". That's like I use my Sprint Burst or whatever offensively because I run away faster from the Killer for 3 seconds. Like no you just use it how it's supposed to.
10 -
You are allergic to Survivor perks doing anything useful at all, it seems.
11 -
I don’t like it when defensive perks are used offensively. This is the perfect time to fix these issues.
OTR should get a new effect, but still not have an endurance effect, so the perk can’t be used offensively.
And Tenacity should get crawling speed back, but delayed by 10 seconds, so the perk can’t be used offensively.
-7 -
Don't bother. Any perk that provides survivors any help gets nerfed when killers get even a little bit of challenge. Killer is not even close to hard as survivor now.
5 -
to be fair they are but that really is the point of it
same with things for killer its to be weaponized against the survivors
but then again it really just depends on how you interpret the meaning of it
it could mean to hurt/stun the killer like blastmine or just be something "basic" like windows of opportunity which helps you without directly hurting the killer
-1 -
I think you're the only person on the planet who's unironically asking for a Tenacity nerf of all things.
Congratulations on having a completely unique take, I guess.
9 -
This a real wild take. There is nothing you can weaponize about tenacity.
8 -
There were other people that gave PTB feedback, that the increased crawling speed was punishing killers even if the killers weren't excessively slugging for long periods of time.
And if Tenacity has the increased crawling speed buffed, but also delayed by 10 seconds, then it should make almost everyone happy. Because the perk would be buffed over for actually problematic slugging, but wouldn't be weaponizable against killers that have only slugged the survivor for 0.5 seconds.
-6 -
it should make almost everyone happy
No, it'd make you happy. Probably not anyone else, because there were practically zero specific complaints about Tenacity as a perk.
8 -
If they're 100% defensive they should be basekit. You shouldn't have to blow perk slots on things that are 100% in the killer's control.
7 -
But it's not always 100% in the killer's control, which is the problem.
If a survivor uses Tenacity to IMMEDAITELY crawl under an undropped pallet, literally before the killer can pick up the survivor, then it's not in the killer's control.
And if 100% defensive perks should be basekit, then gen defense perks should be basekit too, right? Repairing generators is 100% in the survivors control, right?
-8 -
Ive heard it all now. Crawling is used offensively now.
9 -
Tbh, if 'weaponizing' the perk means the killer can't pick up the survivor because he's moved using tenacity during 0.5 seconds, then the solution should be making the downed survivor unable to move for a second, then apply perk normally. Asking for a 10 second lapse before activating doesn't seem reasonable or fair.
I do believe the increased speed and recovery should be basekit, maybe to a minor extent, and then just boost both with the perk. Maybe add a little extra, to make Tenacity more viable. And yeah, some minor version of gen defense should be basekit. But that wouldn't solve tunneling, because tunneling killers tunnel because they can and enjoy easy, not because they "are forced to". If anything, basekit gen regression / defense would give them more time to tunnel, so maybe they could tunnel with other killers instead of the same old same old.0 -
I said 'if', not 'right now'.
And no, doing gens is not in survivors' control. They are not given any other option.
6 -
Survivors aren’t literally forced to repair generators. Surely they can heal teammates, unhook teammates, be chased by a killer, break totems, and a bunch of other things.
Nothing in the game actually forced a survivor to repair if the survivor doesn’t want to. The survivor always has the choice to click that M1 button
-8 -
You can't be serious with this line of argumentation, surely?
8 -
100% serious.
-7 -
Then these perks don't deserve any nerfs for being used 'offensively'. After all, the killer can always choose to just ignore the person with it, even when they try to bodyblock and take hits.
6 -
Wait, I apologize, I must have missed something. How many totems does a survivor have to break to be able to progress the game? Does it actually power the gates or does it just create a secret special hatch for that one person?
7 -
It spawns a Killer Killer that chases and hooks the Killer
6 -
That’s not relevant. Being literally forced to do something, isn’t a requirement for something to be unfair.
Survivors are never literally forced to repair. We’re talking about extreme hyperboles, because the person I was responding to was making extreme hyperboles about killers.
-5 -
Tenacity is such a strange hill to die on. It really isn't an issue, I assure you.
I'd like to see you focus on Boil Over instead.
7 -
That’s not relevant. Being literally forced to do something, isn’t a requirement for something to be unfair.
So what makes these perks unfair when the killer can just choose not to engage with them?
5 -
According to that logic, it would be 100% fair if a killer perk made totems take 5 minutes to break or bless, because survivors could choose not to engage with them.
-6 -
Survivors aren't forced to repair generators, but the Killer can force them not to by making them do other things, like chasing, healing, cleansing hexes, etc. The Killer can chase the Survivors off the gens, meaning Survivors doing the generators (or not) is entirely within the Killer's control.
4 -
If survivors doing generators was completely within the killer’s control, then the survivor team would never win a game.
-7 -
Fortunately, it's not a logic I fielded, so I don't need to defend it.
5 -
Crawling under a pallet sounds like a defensive action so not sure what the problem is there.
Additionally, the idea that each perk should fall into a specific category and just do that one thing is very strange as well.
7 -
Tenacity being a perk that can be "weaponized" and as such deserves a nerf is up there with "Survivor gameplay is easier than Killer because the only thing you do is hold M1 for 90 seconds." for wildest takes I've seen in years...and both of them were within days of each other.
In all seriousness, you ever saw wilder takes in the past, that the people actually believed unironically?
11 -
Anti-slugging mechanics should only punish problematic slugging. One of the biggest problems with this PTB was that the anti-slugging mechanics were punishing slugging even if it wasn't problematic. It's one of the reasons why the PTB got reverted.
Another reason why the PTB got revert was because the anti-tunnelling mechanics were punishing tunneling even if it wasn't problematic.
That's the entire lesson from this PTB. Anti-tunneling, Anti-slugging, and Anti-camping mechanics, should not punish the killer if the killer wasn't being problematic.
-2 -
Yeah, Sluzzy had some pretty wild takes back in 2019 and 2020 DBD. Back when it was still Survivor-favored and we had busted stuff like old DS, old DH, insta heals and so on.
Brother was SURE the game was Killer sided.
5 -
My god that's a name I haven't heard in a LONG time.
I wonder what they're up to now…
3 -
Lots of things wrong that amount to the response being mostly a non-sequitur.
1: If something is 'problematic' it shouldn't be dealt with by a perk. Perks let you do things, such as crawl faster. This can be used to get to a teammate faster, get out of the exit gate, or to get to a pallet. Example: Infinites were problematic, a killer shouldn't need to bring Bamboozle to deal with them, though bringing Bamboozle can take a basekit help (3 window block) and make it better.
2: Nothing about tenacity says its exclusively for anti-slug. It's key purpose seems to be to help survivors get to pallets quicker.
3: The PTB is a different topic, the OP is quite clear about why the revert is being called for.
4:
Anti-tunneling, Anti-slugging, and Anti-camping mechanics- We're talking about perks, not mechanics.5: To explain why the logic is wrong, let's look at killers. Info perks can help you find survivors that are engaged in 'problematic' hiding, but they also help you normally. Gen regression helps you against 'problematic' gen rush, but it also helps you normally. It would be extremely bad for the game to make perks like that only work in situations deemed problematic.
4 -
Still DBD.
Saw them a while back in game
2 -
It would be cool if some of the old forum users got unbanned. I really miss DevilHitMe.
0 -
It sure feels that way sometimes. But whenever Survivors do win, it's because the Killer failed to stop the gens from being done.
5 -
That certainly sounds like proof that survivors doing generators isn't completely within the killer's control.
-5 -
But it is. The Killer could have stopped the Survivors from doing the gens with various perks or strategies, but they didn't.
5 -
Too vague. We could just say survivors are in complete control if they escape, because they could use various perks and strategies. And if the survivors fail, it's because "they just didn't"
-4 -
Too vague.
Okay, I can be more specific. If I'm doing a generator and you're chasing a teammate, it's up to you to decide whether to keep chasing, or come over here to stop me from doing the gen. That is how you control whether or not I complete the gen.
We could just say survivors are in complete control if they escape, because they could use various perks and strategies. And if the survivors fail, it's because "they just didn't"
Actually, we can't say that. If Survivors escape, then the Killer failed to control the generators. Even if you just made the bad decision to commit to chasing that one Survivor while the other three rushed the last gen, that was still a decision entirely within your control.
If Survivors fail, then the Killer successfully controlled the gens and prevented them from being completed.
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