Tunneling is REALLY bad -Edited

As someone who really doesn't like the changes proposed by the ptb, I am perplexed by the decision to change OTR this early. Surely perk changes pertaining to these additions should be saved until the actual patch they're added with. Another very weird bhvr choice.

Most matches are like this. Camping and tunneling galore. Some slugging mid to end match is fine ,but all of this is happening at 5 gens. As survivors, we are supposed to team up and get the objectives done but if we get unhooks or attempt to take chase, we then are singled out after they sacrifice the initial survivor they were tunneling. And then there are two survivors with most of the gens remaining, if not all of them. Then it becomes a "hatch" game if one is lucky. Dbd is my favorite game but lately, I've had to stop myself from uninstalling it. It's that bad. Behavior needs to do something and fast. Unless you're an excellent looper or you neglect hook saves and stay out of the killers radius, it's a miracle to survive a match.

Not even 10 games go by without a few with Tunneling and Team-mates get sacrificed at 5 gens.

How are we supposed to even hope to deal with such games as Survivors???
Please BHVR we need that anti-tunneling system soon.

So we will Queue up in my region, play 10 Survivors games and if a single Survivor on our teams gets tunneled out early in more than 2 games, You will buy me a 40 dollar Steam game. Sure lets do it. We can also repeat this multiple times.

Personally Im way way way more likely to quit playing Survivor from tunneling over a useless team-mate.

I think the problem with that is those two diffrent kinds of problems, is that only tunneling gives you way more likely ensurance that the game is over the moment it happens. While 1 team member hiding and not doing gens, nobody knows for sure this is a problem until the game is almost finished and by then you are already out of the game and you had to have meaningful play.

This is why tunneling is way way way way worse, even if it does not happen as often.

What BHVR is likely looking out for this what was asked in the Survey,

If people are quitting over tunneling in masses, then it does not really matter if it happens like 2/10. its a problem
If we assume tunneling can happen 2 in 10 and we allow 10% risk of a player quitting for good on every tunneling event, then if we are 50 000 players playing this with 10 games each every day. then we are out of Survivors in 20 days.

But the problem is that one leak of players feed into other problems, like if the Queue takes too long I might play something else.

BHVR should have metrics on how likely a "tunnel game" is to make players quit for the day, it should be easy to track.

Even if it's not "every single game," it is happening more frequently than before. Three days in a row, I've been tunneled out of the first match, and that hasn't happened before. Whether Killers are trying to get their "last hurrah" before the tunnel reduction system returns, or if they just don't care, who knows…

Anyway, don't blow off other people's complaints just because you don't see it in every single game.

But BHVR does have the statistics and given the response to tunneling they rolled out, I would say its likely alarming.

Are u sure? Because question of tunnelling always existed in community. Some decisive strike existed since the first licensed chapter. It's not something that suddenly appeared and spreaded as a disease. It's just that there used to be broken perks and map spawns that, even if a killer tunneled, could give survivors a free exit. That's gone now. To outplay a tunnel, you need to work as a team, and solo q lacks tool of that, especially in a period where literally every other match is against an S-tier killer. It's not “killer hard tunnel way more often”. It's “ Every match is S tier one that can tunnel you without any struggles”

They're trying to fight with consequences rather than actual cause simply because, unsurprisingly, people haven't stopped tunneling after nine years. Probably because it's still the most popular way to play asymmetrical horror for most players. So it's in demand as much as anti tunnel system. And what to do in such situations if both options are in demand in the game?

And the only thing that's a negative is that some survivors don't like being eliminated from a match too quickly. It's literally a problem of emotions. Emotions in a PvP game, where you're bound to feel negative if you lose too quickly. So why does BHVR continue to play with this theme? Probably... ahem, because in recent years, BHVR has been focused solely on satisfying emotional needs, neglecting balance and the technical state of the game, because they realize they can't fix real problems, like endless bugs, poor S-tier killer design, and mediocre map design. But here's the problem when you try to play along with emotions - you get a patch where one of the most broken killers exists at the same time, as well as a pallet density update that negatively affected most killers. No one was happy overall, lol

You can agree with this, or you can disagree. As long as the competitive portion of DBD shows that even S-killers are unable to compete with a group of survivors without an aggressive tunnel as soon as they have comms and some sence of skill, people will believe that the tunnel option should remain in this game.

And again, IMO, the only way to make this element less frustrating is to revise the win/lose conditions, so if tunneled person guaranteed at least 2 escapes for their teammates they will be greatly rewarded. As well as provide solo survivors more autonomy and the ability to communicate well with each other. And provide a coherent SBMM, rather than trying to fight with the emotional consequences of playing asymmetrical play. You can't just remove something because it's not fun. If it leads to another balance crash and turns the game into even more technically challenging, even more so.

once again, the issue isnt tunneling or how often it happens. the issue is people refusing to counter it. it can and has been countered by myself and many others. The tunneling "issue" would go away if people just started changing play style and adapted. doesnt matter if it happens every 1 in 10 matches or every match…. counter it.

looping happens every match…. "how am i supposed to deal with this behaviour every match?" learn to counter it… adjust playstyle.

I never said I know better than the devs, and I gave clear examples of what I meant. It has been an issue with the game for years.

interesting precedent to set… can counter it, wont counter it, can change playstyle, wont change playstyle so lets do something to stop it happening. so lets just all refuse to counter looping so then loops get removed.

tunneling is a tactic and always has been just like looping has. when the game first came out not many looped because we were all new and didnt really know the game was best played. then people found out about looping and back when there was god loops people learnt to go in a circle instead of running from 1 end of the map to the other. these days everyone has adapted and learnt looping can be highly efficient. tunneling has always been part of the game, if its been made worse is because of the high speed killers they release recently but thats not tunneling thats the issue thats the killers.

im not an amazing survivor im pretty average, im soloq too… i counter it by changing my playstyle, simple. others need to do the same and they will find its a non issue and probably find it more fun like i find it.

You're missing the whole next part of that paragraph where I state examples that corelate to what I said. And no, that doesn't imply that. You're ignoring 90% of what I said.

If you think its interesting I guess, if the vast vast majority of players REFUSED to participate in looping then that part of the game could very likely have been removed from the game. To me that's just Ironclad reality, that or the game would have failed.

However that isnt the reality we are in, we are in the:
the vast majority of players refuse to participate in Tunneling so its getting removed - reality

Personally yeah, I was on your side, you can find posts about me making suggestions to make it easier for Survivors to understand when tunneling happens and fight back on it. But I dont think that is the path that you can easily squeeze new players through and BHVR has not given any suggestion in that way so im siding with BHVR on that one.

So… “nothing” is base kit BT, no hook grabs, anti face camp, additional +10 sec to hook times, +10 altruistic perks for helping teammates when they are getting tunneled?

Do you know what "in the past" means, Survivors first got basekit BT 3 years ago.
Yeah, for the vast majority of this game's life time tunneling has basically just run around unchained.

You just want this anti-tunnel to be absolutely free over emotional whimsy,

Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.

Duh, yes, that sounds great. No more games where the Killer tunnels one person out. SIGN ME UP.

So your statement is - “remove something completely no matter how it will affect the game and other players, just because I can’t emotionally overcome frustration of losing too quickly.”

Sound as fair, grown up and wise position. No point to argue with it, because it's emotions. I can’t argue with people over things they want/don’t want, because it's as meaningless and unnecessary as beating the air. You have right for this position, that's all. But you don't have a right to claim at as unanimously truthfull one

anti-tunnel is a transfer of responsibility.

It’s what this person want, apparently

Yes, that IS the grown up solution. Deal with it.

What’s making your desires a grown up decision?

If you have a better solution, then you better give it out soon

I told about this many times before on this forum and even post above. If you can’t read whole text and analyze it fully, I don't see any point in playing silly games here repeating stuff that will be missed anyway.

My position you can’t and shouldn't remove tunnel completely. My position it’s time for BHVR to accept people want to tunnel or have to tunnel, and finally think through a full-fledged game mechanics around this to make it less random and more fair. Not crutches, not punishments, not incentives. A whole game system that covers the simple fact people doing this stuff in this game. Like simply stop fighting with damn logic here and accept that some stuff like this or sfw exist. They aren't supposed to be fun for other side. As everything that helps you to win for your opponent aren't supposed to give them fun time.

Even if you need to trade right before 2nd stage you can progress the game a LOT.

But who should go for the last-second save?

If you said, "Everyone goes, because there's no way for solo queue to communicate." then you finally understand the actual problem.

So yours is the better one while the only argument behind it is some emotional sentiment?

So if BHVR did something - someone position is right?

So if Krasue exist and was buffed, someone’s opinion that killer design should look like this is right? Hmm… I see where they put their focus and energy on

Sounds… interesting. Maybe something more decent as argument would be better, nuh?

"Kill that guy and you get a penalty"

How are you supposed to counter that?

Please dont say "dont kill that guy" cuz thats just following the new rule imposed on killers, not countering it.

No, its more if BHVR does something they have a reason to do it. 

I’ll repeat again - so if they created more strong tier killers that takes no skill, easy to abuse, so they needed to do this?

I’ll still wait for hearing something more decent.

I mostly play survivor, and the majority of that is solo-q. It's completely possible to coordinate without coms. An easy and common example; 2 people on a gen, or one on a gen and one in chase. You get the unhook.

There's too many variables in a match to even answer this effectively. That's the whole fun part of survivor, changing things up and adapting to your match.

The answer would vary wildly depending on which Killer you play. But even with the system, people are still certain that tunneling would be the best way to play. It just won't be the "auto-win" that it currently is.

if it can be countered, counter it. the anti tunnel mechanic couldnt be countered with low tier, slow killers due to multiple reasons. if it could be countered then yes killers should counter it but it couldnt…hence why it was cancelled

What I find interesting is the insistence that if antitunnel measures were added, there'd be a huge uptick in sweat overall. But these last few weeks the game has felt sweatier than ever, and basically every killer used the OTR gutting as an excuse to tunnel, which then made survivors sweat more to outpace the tunneling, which made killers- you get the idea.

It's a vicious cycle. And I'm not sure I can be asked to continue to play "sweatier side turns less sweaty side into punching bag" simulator.

This is all so intentionally obtuse to be honest.

A) We know that camping/slugging/tunneling are at their core catchup mechanics, and yet they aren't balanced for that. They're simple yet powerful tools that work with any Killer at any time on any map whether they are winning or losing.

B) We know that camping/slugging/tunneling have been complained about since the game's inception and have rarely been looked at compared to other complaints about the game. Even defensive measures against them continue to be nerfed while they remain the same.

C) We flipped the entire game on its head year 5/6 because Killers were not having fun and weren't playing the game. Yet now that Survivor is in the same spot, we get a year of proposed changes that are cancelled and/or do not benefit them.

So while we're arguing about the instances of tunneling, which are purely anecdotal like most things in the game, these core issues remain. If the problems are bad enough that not enough Survivors are willing to play and measures are being tested to outright replace them, then why can't we look at the issue without getting caught in the weeds?