http://dbd.game/killswitch
A Dangerous Precedent Confirmed By Removing Unpopular Killers From 2v8
Alienating a group of your playerbase by reworking 2v8 (a super casual mode) to remove Legion is certainly a decision. So who or what is next? What does it mean for any future killer who even has the potential to be a menace in 2v8? I.E. Kaneki, Krasue, Skull Merchant, Plague, Myers? etc… Should we just assume they have no chance of ever being in 2v8 unless receiving major nerfs to their abilities? Combo potential with other killers? Should we just go to 1v12 so survs can be have no doubt there is a game mode where they are in the power role? Please, i'm curious, what are these new requirements for a killer to be accepted into 2v8.
Comments
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Removing Legion seems incredibly unnecessary. I don't like every gen popping left and right but that doesn't mean survivors should be neutered. Legion has good map pressure, but at the end of the day they're M1s
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As a former legion main, thank God they are out of 2v8.
Who would've thought that throwing one of the least pleasant Killers to face into a 2v8 that is...precariously balanced would be a bad idea.
He should've been fully reworked instead of re-tuned, but it is what it is now.
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Legion's power is fundamentally incompatible with 2v8. His ability to Injure the whole team for free is balanced out by the fact he has no chase power to help him get the down. Adding a second Killer who has a chase power to the mix, removes the one thing keeping Legion in check.
Legion either needed reworked completely for 2v8 or removed. There was no other option.
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Some killer powers don't work in 2v8, it's as simple that. W for 2v8
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Bring Pig to 2v8.
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A rework would be one thing, especially if they phrased it "Until we find a way to reintroduce this killer". Now, any future killer can be under scrutiny. And from the killer side, how about Scout class and how one of the least pleasant classes to face in a 2v8 and equally as obnoxious from the killer perspective as Legion is to survs? They are not fixing problems, they are making them less bad, which you and I both know has never been the solution, despite it being their M.O. for many years. Band-aid solutions.
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Now this I can get behind 🐷
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Good.
Some Killers don't work in 2v8 and we shouldn't try to force them in when they make the gameplay worse.
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I agree. How would you implement Pig?
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I just cannot in good faith subscribe to this school of thought when he has multiple counters around any given map, the scout class exists, medic exists, and they are one of the only killers in the game mode that can provide any semblance of consistent pressure against Gens flying.
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We both know the minute the devs decide to remove any survivor class from 2v8 there's going to be an uproar with every post highly upvoted, because it's about a survivor issue.
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ffs we shouldn't even be having this conversation until all killers are added. variety already sucks, and you can't pay me to play a decent amount of the roster.
changes are too slow..
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Okay, now that Legion is gone please provide your entire list of killers that YOU think don't work in 2v8. No mentioning Legion, this list is open to every other killer not in the mode yet. I'll be waiting with intrigue for this comprehensive list.
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Very true. The tit-for-tat truly gets tiring on both sides. I don't see this as a win for the entire community as others do, but I'm perfectly alright with that in this instance.
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The best part about her kit is that it's flexible, so there's a multitude of options to consider like more available RBTs, timer adjustment, ability adjustment, etc but there's a fine line not crossed with her as to not make her an absolute beast, but the options are available.
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Ehm guide getting completely nuked????
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A killer who can permanently keep 4 to 8 people injured and - even worse - deep wounded with ANOTHER killer in play is neither fun nor healthy for this game mode.
Legion is not suitable for 2v8, it just is a blunt fact.
As someone who loves Plague, I also would never want her in this very game mode. Just to bring an example of another killer who would not be a good idea for 2v8.
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Couldn't have said better myself 🍻
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I think another big bad killer who will make simular chaos as legion is plague, she has to spend more time before survivors will get injured but then its hard to stay healty unless you want her to give currupt puke which will be strong as hell in 2v8.
Legion is problematic with certain killers and especialy if both killers play togeather and communicate throught some coms like discord because he has basekit info and damages many survivors which with any killer who can get hits fast like spirit,blight,nurse,wraith or killer like oni who just gets blood for free and can slum few survivors in one power use is deadly combination.
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From what I gathered here so far, people just have a very small and narrow idea and definition of what they see 2v8 as and it can't grow beyond this tiny box they've placed it in. Devs have also been slow pushing out a good amount of changes, and introducing new killers which is apart of it too imo. If this is the case, might as well wrap it up at this point rather than have the game mode get more killers, more mechanics, grow and change more because "No i've already decided this killer won't work and it will never work and I don't like it." mentality. Doomer mentality.
Rant: I'd love see multiple lists of killers that won't work. Just like how we have all these tier-lists, make one for the killers that someone believes "won't work" Then enjoy this discussion amongst yourselves on the differing opinions on why they will/won't work. Is Skull Merchant doomed too? Houndmaster? Sadako because Condemn? Probably so. Should those dedicated mains who have waited years to see these killers implemented punished simply based on player dissatisfaction with the character?
Just an awful, awful precedent and shame on anyone who supports and thinks they have the omnipotence, let alone the right to make that decision for everybody. Why should someone care what you think about their character of choice? Last I checked, that wasn't anybody's business.
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- I don't mean to be rude, but it was clear from the start that Legion wasn't a good addition to 2v8. Out of 100 games played, maybe 10% were without Legion... he's an overly strong killer as a "support." Same goes for "the Plague"... his gameplay isn't suited to 2v8. Anyone who doesn't understand why either has no idea what DBD is, or is just being really malicious.
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My issue with Legion is not that they are so strong solo but that they are combo-ed with some incredibly strong and oppressive playstyles because the first hit is "free". Devs did not think this through when releasing killers like Oni. The only counter to Oni is denying him blood as long as possible. That is why he is bearable. In 1v4 if the Oni gets blood from your team that's on your team.
Now imagine the Oni starts the match with blood orbs everywhere and it remains that way for the entire game. That's the play with Legion. Keep survivors injured the entire match with little effort from free hitter quitter and let one of the most devastating snowball killers have his power the whole game.
Then on top of that 8 survivors have to try not to bunch up or be close to each other to let Legion stack hits, impossible on inside maps, mending/not mending to avoid getting hit again. You also have to constantly run from a gen you are working on thanks to trying to dodge a hit. I can gurantee any game with a Legion that wasn't a baby lasted at least 10-15 mins longer than any other non-Legion game unless Oni was slugging four people a dash. Their very power is a time waster.
Those saying Legion is just an M1 killer. Sure. But what about his/her partner? Any match up benefited from Legion's free hit and need to constantly mend or play around not mending. No class of survivor including medics, which never were at max numbers in my games, can counter 8 constant injuries and mend bars. Few liked Legion out of the gate except Legion mains, back when he could moonwalk your mend bar until you collapsed. Did y'all think this would change?
Should every killer on the roster be in this gamemode? In my opinion no. Some killers are only surviveable and counterable because they are alone. They are removing Legion as they should to try and balance their power . My opinion they should have never been in this mode in the first place.
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All I can say is I'll be looking forward to Scout getting removed now since they removed 1 of the only barriers to reasons there aren't more complaints about the class. Now you just have a bunch of pallets to deal with with in a game mode that has a cast consisting, for the most part, of m1 killers who lack the answers their counterparts not in the gamemode already have. And if you don't know that, you don't know DBD
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Very disappointed and grumpy about this change. I've got zero reason to play 2V8 now that my main has been removed. Besides, I've only really been playing 2V8 Survivor at this point to kill time while queuing for Killer anyway, so that's me sitting the mode out from now on. Survivor in 2V8 has become stale for a while with the same 4 classes since version 1 and I'm sure as hell not queuing up to play against the buffed up versions of my least favourite Killers (Wesker and Spirit) if there's no Killer game for me to look forward to.
Why did they add Legion in the first place when they knew there would be complaints about them? Surely they know Legion is an unpopular Killer with a lot of Survivors. I felt they had PLENTY of counter play in 2V8 but it's whatever at this point, the decision has been made. It would have been better not to have added them at all instead of first gutting and then removing them, because this move from BHVR has ticked me off and really soured the mode for me.
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I do have a fundamental issue with the notion "Legion can't work and should be removed from 2v8". This gates everything that isn't chase out of the mode because soloQ can't handle it, not cause there is something inherently wrong with tbe power.
My personal opinion is neither Legion or Oni needed buffs, their powers naturally synergise with 2v8, and leaving them as is would have been fine.
If Legion does need some extra thought, and if you really need to hard nerf Legion in 2v8, have their power only last 4 hits, but the 5th hit only deep wounds and causes Legion to drop power immediately. Perhaps have it so on the 5th hit the Survivor doesn't get the post hit speed boost. This is a strong arm to severely hurting Legion's power and oppressiveness in 2vs8, but even this would be far more preferable than removing the character completely.
We have some really smart people in these forums... to just give up and say "remove Legion", I can only describe as cowardly.
Legion's fundamental issue has always been Survivors need to play the Legion game, and if they don't they lose... and SoloQ has too many people who can't or won't figure out how to play against him, and thus give him everything he wants to win... and this problem is amplified further in 2v8.
I have had games I've beaten a Legion in 2v8 when I've had a number of players who are clued in, and I've had games where I can see Survivors playing obviously incorrectly get smashed by Legion. The same counters apply, but you need Survivors who will actually use them.
If all 2v8 Survivors did the following for Legion, they'd do a lot better:
- Avoid clumping and spread out, never have more than 2 Survivors in close proximity.
- When Legion starts chaining head to edges of the map and make it more difficult to chain.
- Body block for your teammates if you have deep wound.
- Stay in Deep Wound as long as possible before you complete the mend.
- Leave healing for the Medics and make strong use of their active cooldowns.
- Play for stuns and wearing out Legion's timer.
- Use things like window techs.
- If all else fails and you really need to stop a Legion chain, jump in a locker so he has to drop out of power.
Survivors have options vs. Legion, and to say this shouldn't exist in the same arena where we have triple blink Nurse/triple dash Wesker, and Wraith with 4 of his add-ons basekit to make pretty much all Wraith counterplay non existent... is just close minded bias to me.
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They say a picture is worth 1,000 words.
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They did WHAT!?!?!?! He wasn't even that good, it's just a massive amount of solo queue teammates selling and staying grouped up and insta mending. Thats a skill issue on their part, not the killer's. Legion was still really bad in 2v8, they didn't need to do that.
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- I repeat, the problem isn't Legion but the absurd synergy it has with every 2Vs8 killer (maybe except Billy because he's an instadown). Let's forget about the Legion + Oni combo (for obvious reasons), but Legion also makes a Nurse an instadown. You can stun Legion and eliminate his power for about ten seconds, but if he's already put 3 people in deep wound, what exactly have you achieved? It's not that easy to split up on a map (even a large one)... you'll arrive at a moment when you're close to someone... we're not 4 players, but 8... no matter how big the map, a decent Legion will always be able to wound 2-3 people in a power session. It's obvious that healing is useless, but if you have to fight even a simple "Wraith" that suddenly appears, you're in a lose/lose situation. Legion and Plague are balanced killers because they have extreme ease in hurting people, but then they have to work M1 to get a down... in 2vs8 they do the "first attack", then someone like Wesker (example) just has to finish the job. Of course, there are also the less experienced legions (like any other killer in the game), easy to stun and easy to "bodyblock"... but if you know even a little bit how to use this killer, nothing stops you from being an EXCEPTIONAL support killer in 2Vs8. But if what I said isn't clear enough, why is Legion in 2Vs8 magically the most played killer ever... has everyone suddenly fallen in love with Legion? Are they crazy? Or maybe there's a deeper reason?
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This is so well said and beyond. It covers most of the pain points I have with this decision. Well put as usual, @UndeddJester , can't upvote enough but take my internet points. 🏆️
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I understand that and agree that he has strong synergy, but I refer you to @UndeddJester 's reply and add that there's a lot of issues going on all at once when it comes to Legion. The skill issue, the player mindset issue, issues with the actual balance of the gamemode and core gameplay, and so on. There are plenty of issues that go beyond just synergy…So What? That's supposed to be a ball and chain now that limits the game mode to only ever have killers that aren't deemed an issue? Okay, well who is that? Me, you, and another person could put 3 different lists of killers out who fit that criteria and all 3 lists would have different killers on that list. We could have any issues with synergy, this game has a huge roster of over 40+ killers.
But when it comes to how well a killer power performs, they've opted to not handle any actual issues, which the next logical question is, well we've had plenty of recently released killers who have multiple powers, we have a roster of killers that came base with anti-loop, anti-shift+W, anti-fun (if you ask some survs), so by extension this implies we should not even look to implement these killers because the response will be met with "They are too strong and were never meant for 2v8". Why even have hope for future additions for this gamemode now?
Why couldn't they just do small rotations of killers and do balancing adjustments during the off-period those characters aren't on rotation? Surely there were many, many more options out there.
Post edited by Nun_So_Vile on1 -
Hope you're looking forward to even longer killer queues next 2v8...
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Awesome that Legion is removed!
Next 2v8 could be the best yet with faster queues by having more survs playing knowing they won't face the embodiment of boringness.
Also the wins for the killers will have more meaning since you can't get anymore easy wins with a killer that was never supposed to be in 2v8. He's ok for 1v4, but in 2v8 his main weakness (only being able to injury and not immediately down survs) is non existent by having another killer.1 -
Same here my friend. So so so same here that I'm still over here facepalming and i'm all out of face to palm at this point bro. The very irony too that it was prefaced with "we're hitting the reset button with the community" mere moments before taking a giant dookie right on a portion of your player base is…truly astounding.
Like, why not just start doing a rotation of killers, that way every time it's up you get a new batch of power synergies, it's random who those handful of killers are gonna be, and we can have some more variety quicker, since it's apparently a problem and taking a long time to put the entire roster in 2v8. That's me just brainstorming for 5 minutes and it's already more reasonable than straight-up removing Legion, and a good change up from the same-ol-same-ol every single time for your player base. But nah, lets just do more work for less options that lead to ultimately stunting this game mode and inhibiting it from ever reaching it's full potential.
Like, BPMain was saying too, we haven't even gotten the whole roster yet. So, what does that mean for the killers with multiple powers that are guaranteed to be good out-of-the-box and how they will be under scrutiny for simply existing, but I guess we might as well now just say here and now they aren't coming because they are too hard to balance and will be too unpopular.
I just feel more for every single player out there who has waited ever so patiently for their main to come to 2v8, waited for THEIR reason to finally jump in, and this move now jeopardizes that and means they may never see their main in 2v8 after waiting a long time.
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I hope you're looking forward to the killers who rightfully complain that Scout is a broken class and needs to get removed if they aren't providing good killers to counter 2v8's Pallet Towns. With the new pallet density update, there should be more than enough now anyways.
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The cynic in me thinks they only ever added Legion to 2V8 to sell more Hunk skins during the Resident Evil themed event.
I wonder how Konami feel about missing out on potential sales for their Robbie The Rabbit Legion skins now that it's their turn? I can't imagine they're too thrilled.
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I don't even know what to say on this thread, but those that matter know my stance already.
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I feel like Pig is an interesting case for 2v8 synergy. I'm not sure if her 4 traps as is would be overpowered in a 2v8 setting or not.
If I were to have a gut punt at a buff list for 2v8:
- John's Medical File (+5% crouch movement speed)
- Combat Straps (+0.1s faster crouch/uncrouch speed)
- Workshop Grease (50% faster ambush charge rate)
- Ruleset Number 2 (cannot see boxes until traps are active)
- +2 traps.
That seems like it might be decent... maybe Last Will as well.
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Its not good idea to put killer that isnt super strong but has probably best power to injure as many survivors as possible to be teamed with killers that can get hits fast and are realy strong like nurse,blight,spirit(when you are injured its just matter of time before she gets you), 2v8 wraith all these killers cant get their hits fast so legion just makes you oneshot agains them and like legion with good nurse on ormond isnt good killer combo to go against or legion with oni who gets his power faster and doesnt even have to get any hits. Plague has same potenvial her infection takes more time to apply the effects but when it does you cant just mend and heal you have to cleanse at her fontains which gives her one of best range powers for downing multiple survivors and imagine her with oni or blight thast very strong duo.
Legion can even make weaker killers like ghostface to be way more desdly because he doesnt have to waste time marking you and just sneaks up to you and downs you easily or nemesis who doesnt need to hit you 3 times with his power to down you but only 2 times and thats very noticiable change.
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