I enjoy most of the new anti-tunnel and anti-slug changes except the lack of regression incentive.
I think the changes look great. It's meant to encourage going for other survivors rather than completely eliminate tunneling as a strategy.
The only thing I disagree with is the removal of the basekit kick buff for killer when you get unique hooks. Everything else looks good and fair. The changes maintain tunneling and slugging as valid strategies while implementing failsafes for when abuse is detected.
It's a really good changelist imo. But BHVR, in my opinion, it is important that the basekit gen kick buff (or even just a mini-Pain Resonance) remain because that's what actually makes it preferable to hook multiple people. The Bloodlust on hook idea, while not terrible, doesn't fully address the issue of the amount of time you're losing by spreading hooks among all 4 Survivors rather than focusing one down quickly. By implementing a regression incentive in addition to the speed boost when leaving the hook, you are essentially putting the cherry on top of the anti-tunnel cake.
Speaking as someone who prefers to play for hooks and doesn't enjoy the game being balanced around kills, I strongly believe adding regression incentives for unique hooks is the best way forward for discouraging tunneling.
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I hate to be a Debbie Downer, but they might add regression and conveniently decide not to add any comeback against it.
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Completely eradicating tunneling is still the best way for the game. But devs refuse again to do something worrhwile. Its actually just another example for double standards to be honest: while they dont want to limit killers gameplay its still fine to let killers limit survivor gameplay.
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Ive been trying to explain this since that ptb but basekit pop does not suit most killers and only really suits the strongest killers like Blight and Ghoul. Maybe basekit pain res could work but the idea seems a bit divisive.
Also the point of the unhook protections is reducing how much of a nuclear option tunnelling is anyway, killers cant feel forced to tunnel if they cannot even find the unhooked survivor, they'll be forced to pressure whoever they find. This is how the game sometimes plays out on live anyway.
So i think overall these changes leave the game a bit more open ended whilst reducing reliance on anti-tunnel perks1 -
these systems should not punish, they should give the losing side an opportunity to win back, the very first one was close to this, but went too far with the punishment. The killer dominates too much, give a buff to the survivor, and if the survivor dominates too much, then give it to the killer, I believe that such systems should work like this.
The problem is not in camp, tunnel or in the swf, but in the very pace of the game, it is broken, the killer comes to this decision most often when he no longer has any options due to the fact that the survivors repaired almost all the generators in the first minutes of the game.0 -
Disagree on the slugging changes. I don't need to play it to know it's still too much. Any amount of cumulative time slugged for permanent unbreakable is not the way to go and can still be abused. Teammates will leave each other slugged on the ground still because it's more time efficient to do so, even at 120 seconds. Unlocking permanent Unbreakable is too powerful. The slugged resolve concept is fundamentally flawed.
It needs to retain the team component to be okay. Two slugged people should be able to pick each other up after a while. That's the only way to go.
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I heavily disagree that 120 cumulative seconds on the ground leading into a self pick-up is a problem. You can make an argument about only being allowed to be picked up one time by yourself, which I would agree with, but I disagree that slugging won't still be useful with these changes.
There can be an argument made about reducing how quickly it ramps up though. 33% per other slugged survivor is way too fast. If you slug two people, they'll both get themselves up at 80-90 seconds (earlier for the first one you slugged.) Otherwise it's fine
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Even if it was like 5% and a location reveal, that'd be enough.
And as far as the negative incentives go, if they were tightened up (like only triggering the repair boost if a death happens at 4 or 3 hooks), they would be a-okay.
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After all the feedback from the last PTB, I'm shocked they're still trying to eliminate any options besides finding survivors, chasing them, and hooking them. It's obvious this makes it impossible to fight properly unless you're a Killer with a fast down-time or quick generator rounds. Or are they planning to introduce bot Killers in Ranked Matches that use characters other than Nurse or Bright?
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Meh, basekit pop was in a way a limitation on playstyle and didn't benefit some killers as much as others. I also don't feel that it would be balanced now with the tunneling penalties being removed, that was very much a package deal imo.
You could maybe avoid the first issue if it was a basekit Pain Resonance instead, but frankly that would probably be too strong just in general.
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I have an idea but it makes the game more complicated than it needs to be.
Basekit controlled entity blocker for unique hooks, bound to an as-of-yet unused activate ability bind for killer. Let's call it Entity's Favor.
After hooking a unique survivor, gain an active ability that allows you to target gens from afar (within X distance?) and block them for X amount of seconds. Value (and maybe even effects) can be changed on a per-killer basis. New perks could be designed that interact with this mechanic (for example perks that allow you to block totems/vaults/pallets remotely, or instead of blocking you gen a pocket ranged gen regression with a small electrical windup on the gen so survivors can avoid the scream).
That way a killer like Trapper doesn't have to haul his ass across the map to get value out of this basekit regression/blocking idea, and you can adjust the effectiveness/range/whatever for killers like Blight that can haul their ass efficiently (and include all of this in the killer bios of course).
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Nah. I'd make each unique hook to regress most progressed gen by 25 % for 1st hook, 15 % for second hook and rework pain res to passively regress all non-worked on generators.
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