http://dbd.game/killswitch
Why do they never address why killers actually tunnel ?
Comments
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So if the killer is still going to try to tunnel and the unhooked survivor still has to out loop them, what has changed? You're not noisy while you do it? It sounds like it's only going to help against killers who weren't tunneling anyway, just to keep them from accidentally finding you again. I don't forsee this helping much with intentional tunneling, especially from players who seem incapable of doing anything else.
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Others have raised similar points, but I still want to make my case here, because I feel BHVR are attempting to address why killers tunnel- though how well they'll achieve this is a separate matter, of course.
When people bring up balance issues of any stripe to say "this is why killers tunnel", they're making a mistake- they're actually trying to pin down one step away from square one as the root, instead of square one itself.
If gen speeds are too high, if healing is too powerful, if maps are too unbalanced, none of that directly leads to "chase someone as soon as they're unhooked". What those things do lead to is a very reasonable need to find an answer of some kind. The more unbalanced the thing you're facing, the more of a shortcut you'll need on your end, that's broadly how it goes, you answer heat on their end with heat on your end.
The reason people pick tunnelling in particular to be that answer is because tunnelling is the most unbalanced thing in the game, maybe only second to a full dedicated genrushing SWF — by which I mean everyone has a stacked toolbox build and rushes gens, not just being efficient or bringing a handful of gen speed perks spread across the team.
It's certainly the single most unbalanced part of the game's basekit, everything else (on both sides to some degree) requires perks or some other loadout option. Tunnelling is completely basekit.The root cause of tunnelling is that tunnelling is unbalanced. Without it, you'd see other answers to various survivor tools or strategies, and some of them would even be legitimate- you mention healing in your post, and there are definitely legitimate answers to that, even if you're looking at the strongest possible healing tools on the survivor side.
That's why tunnelling just needs to go. It isn't an authentic part of the game's skill expression or gameplay loop, it isn't a necessary evil holding back something worse, it isn't required in order to stand a chance at winning, it's just a free "quick and easy value" button.
(Though, quick note, the nature of the game inherently shifts after all the gens are done- at that point tunnelling is much more justifiable because you really don't have as much to do. This is referring to the main meat of the match still being in progress, so to speak.)
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it really is running in a circle, i do it often enough to know how easy it is to see a pallet and see a potential loop location where i go in a circle and force the killer to drop pallet, then move to another pallet.
Playing SWF doesnt make you a good player, your right, but it can increase your chances of escape. thats my point.
i can be an awful looper, no idea what im doing but if i have a team making call outs so i can pre run, know where the hex totems are, know where my team is leading the chase so i can do gens on the opposite side of the map, know which of my team mates are going for the save and whos staying on gens, know what perks my team mates have, these things make a huge difference and increase my escape chances if im a bad player.
you point of taking a loss instead of tunneling would make sense if the killers were complaining about the super difficulty of the matches they are getting. But killers are not complaining, they are simply tunneling and its the survivors that complain about it. im fine having sweaty matches where i need to tunnel to win…i just tunnel, its not a problem. why would killers want to stop tunneling, take the loss and remain in a lower MMR if they dont have an issue with tunneling? It seems its survivors that have the issue with tunneling killers which they will get more and more in high MMR. so maybe they are the ones that should stop using SWF to raise MMR? stay in a lower bracket so they get less tunnelers? or maybe not use meta perks and loop early on so they dont raise MMR and feel the need to use these perks and loop in high MMR?
Fact is, its the survivors that have the biggest issue with tunneling, so i dont think the view of killers should cop the loss applies but it does apply to survivors that have the issue.
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Unless some minor edge cases nothing of this is anyway of an issue. Just a bunch of sad excuses.
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it really is running in a circle
Checks spots, knowing when to drop and maximize the loop, mind games, when and where to use your perks…
Most importantly, how do you play against each killer, and in some cases, how you play against specific add-ons.
Discounting all of that is purely disingenuous bias.
But killers are not complaining, they are simply tunneling
Killers are absolutely complaining.
Complaining about how they feel "forced to tunnel", complaining about SWF, complaining about MMR. (Which, you yourself are doing in your post)
And the root cause of these complaints is that tunneling is insanely simple and too effective.
So instead of playing against teams of similar skill, like people should be, instead killers can just tunnel relentlessly and decimate those teams.
Killers are boosting their MMR until they are so far over their heads they can barely keep up. And it's because tunneling gets them there.
stay in a lower bracket so they get less tunnelers?
You have no respect (or maybe don't understand) looping, but think that tunneling is some advanced tactic?
Following the notification and going back to hook is something that anyone can do. My nephew is 5 and could figure that out, and I could program a bot to do it.
The only actual skill involved with tunneling is chase... So knowing how to loop.
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Yeah, this logic just does not follow. "Killers aren't complaining about the high difficulty matches." Oh yes, they are! They swear that tunneling is the only way to win those matches, which means they don't belong in that MMR bracket, because they don't have the skill to match it.
And why did the Killers complain about the tunneling and slugging reduction from the last PTB? Because it would inevitably lead to more losses. And they were right, it would have. But then they could have learned to improve their actual skill and spread pressure and keep all Survivors scrambling instead of leaving three to bust out gens while the one poor sod gets tunneled out. But instead of adapting, they complained, and the system got pulled. Meanwhile, I hear that even more nerfs for Survivors are on the way, such as pallet density and medkit add-ons.
Makes me wonder why people keep asking how much more hand-holding Survivors need when it's obviously the Killers who are getting their hands held, if these recent and upcoming changes are anything to go by.
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🤔
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If gens take 4 minutes do complete, killers will still tunnel
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Some killers tunnel simply because a 3v1 is better than a 4v1. Even if you make killer super easy some people will try to remove a survivor as fast as possible due to that fact.
Does tunneling blow up in killer's faces? It can, but only when survivors are actually good at running a killer. Some killer's have it in there mind to never let go of a hopeless chase even if it cost them several gens.
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This really encapsulates the situation perfectly. You missed DS 2.0, when they restored the stun to 5s and Anti-Hemorrhagic Syringe. Killer players also complained about DH Validation and Pallet Validation, resulting in the elimination or gutting of those systems. I specifically remember the healthy complaints and how Self-Care was too strong, and I thought to myself, 'people wasting time in a corner to heal is great for The Killer.' So they nerfed it, and more people decided to stay Injured and work on Generators. They don't want people to be able to heal, but they also don't want them working on gens while injured.
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Thanks to this discussion, I remembered this:
I'm sad that I haven't seen more streams from other developers playing in public against survs who aren't potatoes
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swearing tunneling is the only way to win isnt a complaint, its acknowledgment. i tunnel, i feel i need to, im not complaining i just do it. if survivors dont like it, they complain but most killers dont have an issue with tunneling or needing to tunnel.
the whole argument of tunneling makes people rise to mmr bracket they dont belong doesnt make sense unless you apply it to SWF that cant win in solo. or survivors cant win without meta perks…. if they need to rely on these things to win maybe they dont belong in that mmr bracket…especially if they cant counter tunneling.
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as already stated, saying killers need to tunnel to win isnt a complaint, its simply stating the need to do it so they do it. if killers were having a miserable time tunneling and saying "change it, im not having fun" fair enough but they generally dont say that. they just say "we need to tunnel so we will tunnel, not a problem"
im not saying tunneling is advanced or difficult. im saying looping is just as easy to do. i do both, i tunnel hard at 5 gens as killer and loop as survivor so i know how easy both tactics are so i have just as much (or little) respect for looping as i do for tunneling. it seems its mostly survivor mains that rely on looping to demonstrate their "skills" are the ones the get offended when someone calls them out on the fact its really as skillful as they claim. granted some killers are harder to loop than others but M1 killers takes 0 skill to loop, wraith or trapper for example. does it really take skill to loop a pallet…oh killer going the other way so better turn around and go the other way…about the get hit, drop pallet. easy. But that tunneling wraith has to find a way to down that survivor….not so easy.
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"I tunnel hard at 5 gens"
Crazy thing to admit to.
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why? part of the game just like perks or items or survivor tactics like looping, pre run or stealth
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Because it's ironic and frankly silly that you state you need to tunnel while also admitting that you milk it as far as it can go. It's an oxymoron.
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i do what i need to do to win, if i need to milk it i will. i know what happens if i dont hard tunnel at 5 gens… i lose. why would i want that?
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In my opinion, and I could be wrong, it sounds more like you've convinced yourself that it's a requirement. It's a bit like going next. As Survivor, you know when a trial is cooked but you don't need to go next. It's just easier to. And yet that was removed, while tunneling still hangs around without any nerfs.
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it was not removed at all, people still go next or DC or simply use abandon to go next instead.
im not prepared to endure multiple matches of abuse from survivors while i test your theory of if its actually needed or not…i have already been through that and found my solution which is tunnel, tunnel, tunnel. it doesnt always work and nor should it work 100% of the time. but it works enough.
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Sounds to me like you've relied on hard tunneling for so long that you've forgotten how to play normally.
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maybe, sounds like many have relied on SWF, looping or certain perks that they cant play normally.
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Only pure survivor main can downvote guy telling he tunnels when game is near its end, but that doesnt surprise me.
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Seems like whataboutism
Also theres no way we are complaining about looping in 2025.
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no im not complaining about looping at all, i understand its part of the game. just like tunneling is. are we really complaining about tunneling in 2025? its been around for nearly a decade just like looping has. my point is what is playing "normally"? looping has become the norm for the game, just like certain perks or SWF using comms. these are nornal and to be expected. if tunneling is as common as people claim it to be then that would make it normal wouldnt it?? or are basing "normal" on your view of what killer gameplay should be?
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Facecamping was normal.
CoH was normal.
We can remove problematic things. Not that deep.
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true we can change what is normal but thats not the point. the point is what is currently normal being pulled into question by your comment. the question on if tunneling is problematic is also in question here because myself and others have been countering it with minimal issues and it gets countered in my killer matches too but thats not the point. again your point of tunneling so long i have forgotten how to play "normally" can be applied to people who normally play SWF or normally loop.
how about killers stop tunneling and play "normally" according to you which im guessing is spread hooks? now survivors have to play "normally" according to me which is no loops or maybe no comms in SWF. see how crazy that sounds?
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I have genuinely no idea what you are arguing.
You seem to have something against SWF and looping, which is something I expected to see in 2020, not 2025. SWFs still lose far more than they win, even at "High MMR" and looping is totally nonsensical to complain about.
I'm simply saying that if you think you need to tunnel every match, you probably aren't as good as you think you are. You'd be better off not doing it, in the long run. Tunneling is totally fine to do at certain points, but immediately slamming four random players out of ego is insane to me.
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no i dont have anything against looping or swf with comms. how do you not understand your argument can be applied the other way around? if someone feels that they need to be in SWF with comms to win and know they cant win solo then by your logic they are better off not doing SWF with comms because they are not as good as they think they are. try winning soloq with no looping and only loop mid match when things are looking dire. you cant see your double standards here?
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You keep bringing it up.
I don't know how to explain to you any other way. Tunneling off rip is weird and not normal. I think everyone tunnels every once in a while, especially if the game is going poorly. Deciding to be an ass and immediately ruin someone's game is just odd.
And then somehow trying to justify it by linking it to looping or SWF? Just so strange and nonsensical.
The more apt comparison would be to a 4-man SWF where every member has 5K hours bringing 4 toolboxes and genrushing builds, then having them t-bag and taunt in EGC. That's basically the Survivor equivalent of what you are doing by tunneling some random solo dude at 5 gens.
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once again you say its weird and not normal….according to you. but the amount of people that claim it happens every match suggest it is normal. i could say going in a circle or using comms isnt normal….it is normal but i could still say its weird and not normal just like you can say it for tunneling.
what if i said looping from the start of the match ruined my fun? i could call that an ass move to immediately start looping before i even get a hit. i dont think this, but i could very easily think it and say only loop mid match when the things are going poorly but not from the start.
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So are we just gonna keep doing this, "what if" "what about" thing?
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You do realize that all of this makes you sound like:
1. You get loopped to hell as killer.
2. You're bitter about people having friends.
3. You have no idea how to play without cheese tactics.
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as long as your double standards stand then yes lol. works both ways. yet you still havnt explained how its not normal to tunnel but its perfectly normal and ok to loop when both things happen frequently. you dismiss it regarding it as "what if" but you have no valid reasoning when its flipped the other way round
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it might come across that way, certainly not the case but people can think what they want. it often comes across like people that have an issue with tunneling are bitter they lose and have no idea how to play the game when their one and only way fails.
my point still stands with no valid argument against it….you call tunneling a cheese tactic, i call comms in SWF or looping a cheese tactic. all are fine in my book, i have no issue with either because as survivor i can counter tunneling and as killer i can counter a large proportion of teams with tunneling. its just interesting that people refuse to see that tunneling is part of the game like it or not and always will be just like comms and looping.
you play solo survivor without looping and i will play killer without tunneling lol. no? how about i only tunnel if i need to, say mid match? and you only loop when you need to? no?
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If we're not supposed to loop, then what are we supposed to do, especially when you tunnel? 😕
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Lol you can't just flip the wording on things and have it make zero sense just so you can justify playing in a way that is frowned on by almost everyone. Even people who defend tunneling constantly here don't do so for 5 gen tunneling.
Tunneling is optional and requires no skill. Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently.
You sure have a lot of knowledge about how people use comms for someone who doesn't.
How does one loop "when they need to"? Do you just stand there under the hook and point until end game? What does this even mean? Just say you don't care how anyone feels and winning in a video game is all that matters because you pretty much have said those things in pieces. Why try to justify being it with this nonsensical reasoning?
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like killer mentality?
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Yeah because nobody hard tunnels at 5 gens lmao
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i have been in swf with comms years ago, i know the advantages it provides and i have seen the plays teams with comms can do in my own matches as killer and survivor. to suggest SWF with comms offers no advantages is just ignorant or delusional.
looping optional, i have escaped many matches by not looping. its called stealth. but you are close to the issue when you say "Decent looping against a killer who doesn't suck is a hard-earned skill and isn't optional if you want to win matches consistently." tunneling against a decent team that doesnt suck isnt optional if you want to win matches consistently. any argument can be flipped.
how to loop only when needed? you run around the map, pallet to pallet, take a hook state, and when you think your going to lose if you dont loop….then you can loop. this is the attitude of people regarding tunneling…chase people, let a few gens pop then when you think your going to lose then you can tunnel, then its acceptable.
so as i said, i wont tunnel if people dont loop and see how that goes? im guessing no?
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Don't hide, don't pre run, don't use perks, don't use items, don't run away too early, don't give up, and absolutely, under no circumstances, should you ever touch a gen.
So, the perfect survivor stands in the open near a gen (but not touching it) and acts like an NPC. You should have about 3s reaction time and only start running just before the first hit takes a health state.
The only pallets you can throw are the equivalent of Ormond picnic table. You aren't allowed to hold w, and looping is (apparently) skill less.
Make sure to congratulate the killer on how amazing they are and how they deserve to be Max MMR, and how they should be showered in buffs to counter those evil SWF players.
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really? many here have openly admitted to doing it and survivors here have claimed this happens "almost every match". which is it? nobody does it or it happens a lot?
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stealth, i have said it many times, stealth play, lose line of sight. killers cant tunnel what they cant find. if i can do gens and remain hidden im sure others can. loop as secondary after your found….dont rely on it because then i can say you rely on looping like killers rely on tunneling…the one and only tactic that works for you and for them.
i have never said cant loop while i tunnel. im saying we can all do what we need to do. you need to loop? great, i need to tunnel. want me to stop tunneling? ok, i want you to stop looping. fair is fair
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Assuming you can make distance before the Killer is on your bumper again while you leave trails of blood. That almost never happens.
And oh yeah, even if I stopped looping, you wouldn't stop tunneling.
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Even the most Killer-sided people here don't hard tunnel every game at 5 gens because they know its scummy and not appropriate.
But hey, if that's the kind of player you are, more power to you. Precisely why it should be extremely penalized.
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with the amount of pallets around its very possible to win without looping v certain killers lol. to prove a point i would stop tunneling if people agreed to stop looping. but i know no one will agree to it because "i need to loop". which is the point im making, if people need to loop carry on i got nothing against it but i need to tunnel so people should have nothing against it lol.
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- here isnt a good representation of killers or survivors….in game matches are better to go by.
- if we go on your basis that most people dont hard tunnel at 5 gens then its not as common as people claim it to be so the big hooha about "tunneling every match being an issue" isnt an issue at all lol. tunneling is ok as long as we dont do it at 5 gens which nobody does that….so whats the problem?
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You admit to tunneling. I know you don't tunnel because people loop. You're actually more likely to tunnel those who don't loop because it's much easier.
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see now your misunderstanding my character lol. i admit to tunneling because i dont see it as an issue like people admit to looping. its no different to me. but if its to prove a point i would be more than happy to not tunnel if people agreed to not loop. the satisfaction i would have from proving my point would top my satisfaction of tunneling lol. if bhvr came up with a mechanic to stop loops and stop tunneling dead in their tracks im all for it. would survivors be ok with it? unlikely, which is the point im making.
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You're arguing that running to pallets and likely wasting resources is somehow more agreeable than looping? So you like breaking a zillion pallets as killer but you can't mind game or predict movements? Would you, as killer, like to play against four hiding, cowardly rats as well? Or is hiding only okay if it's just you while your teammates do the real work?
If you're tunneling at 5 gens it has nothing to do with the team sucking or not. And you're also talking like everyone who wins, tunnels, and that's not the case.
You're telling me I'm ignorant or delusional about a thing I do all the time. It CAN be an advantage. It can be a hindrance. It can also be nothing at all. I don't play in parties for an advantage, I play to hang out with chill people. I'll play with anyone if they're cool and I like their company. I know this is hard for you to believe, but not everyone is motivated solely by winning.
You're pretty much saying you take the easiest path both times: ratting and tunnelng? Do you think that's impressive?
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Stealth play?
You mean in the game that gave out about 20 different aura reading perks that are on unpredictable triggers, deleted anti aura protections, and implemented anti hiding.
You really do think it's 2018.
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