Why do they never address why killers actually tunnel ?

again i have never said i cant mind game or predict movements, i have to do this to down people to start the tunneling process. i dont have an issue with it. but your failing to see the point time and time again. as killer yes i would like to play against stealthy survivors, they are the ones that give me a close match as killer and often counter my tunneling. as long as the people hiding are doing gens too i have no issue with it…thats what i do.

i think i use my wits more than most as killer and survivor which is often the easiest path….play smart. why would i intentionally pick the harder route? that doesnt sound smart to me. im not trying to impress anyone, im playing for me and my enjoyment and my win.

i didnt say you play in parties for an advantage, but like or not SWF with comms intentional or not often will have advantages. not everyone parties up with no comms and plays for memes and has chilled matches….thats the opposite of my experience. almost all SWF's recently have been meta perks, on comms, calling out hexes and locations.

Well, nowhere to hide is the #4 most used killer perk, so meta completely disagrees with your "no room for auras when bringing regression" thing.

Even outside of just auras, information creep in general has brought about more sources of killer instinct, screams, and killer specific information in their kits.

And, I'll go ahead and point out that the only two actual aura blocking perks require you to either be hooked (OTR), or recharge only in active chase (distortion)... So not being found is, intentionally, not feasible long term without getting into chase.

"Just don't be found 4head" is both insanely tone deaf and not at all reflective of 2025 DbD.

thats where the skill comes in, know the distance og the gen and avoid being detected. my whole playstyle is stealth first, loop second.im doing just fine. even with the add ons and such that make people scream and have killer instinct its about knowing where to go after its been triggered, often the killer comes looking for me knowing im in the area but just cant find me. i keep the killer distracted longer doing that than some do in chases. i dont use aura hidding perks and im still doing fine in my matches. it sounds like an excuse tbh. if i wasnt doing well in my matches using stealth then i could see your point but im doing it match after match, week after week, month after month.

right so SWF calling out ghostface location heading to main building where people are doing gens so they have a chance to pre run or hide is skill? come on, you cant be serious.

i got you saying hiding behind a rock takes no skill and i got Ampers saying stealth isnt viable lol. you should try doing a gen and hiding when the killer comes near you then continue doing gen when the killer spends too long searching…. see how well you can do it.

im basing the SWF situation on the matches i have, they can pull off plays with ease purely because they have comms to let others know im heading in that direction, or they just seen a hex but they couldnt do it because they are in chase so they call it out and someone else does it while im chasing…skill? not at all. having extra info is not skill. doing these things without comms in solo? yes thats impressive but in SWF, its really not. i know they are on comms because i pay attention in the match and i practically see the communication in the way they play, going for a hex they would never have known about or avoiding taking a chase to a gen thats being worked on.

i got you saying hiding behind a rock takes no skill and i got Ampers saying stealth isnt viable lol

It's probably viable against God awful baby killers that don't check behind the rock, but this would never fly in my killer matches. I wish they would lol

You can't be sure they called it out. Some people have good gamesense and know where the killer is at pretty much all times. Perks matter too. I often point out totems to randoms in case I can't do the cleanse (teamwork is wild bro).

I never said callouts were skill. It's not the callouts, its the plays. I had a team recently (that might have been on comms, can't be sure) that read my perks and used them against me to bait me away from their gen jockeys. A smart, coordinated play, super duper impressive and genuinely smart. One of the only losses I've had this month.

Since you seem to be doubling down on this, I just want to make sure I get this take correct for the record.

You're in this thread saying that: hiding in a bush and avoiding your opponent is top tier, maximum skill...

And actually interacting in the PVP aspect of the game (looping) is "skill less".

That's certainly a take, especially since you should've named your account "sneakguy" if that's your actual goal. Since, you know, running takes no skill...

And I don't think that stealth is impossible, since you mentioned it to someone else. It should be a part of survivor gameplay, just like gens, healing, rescue, mind games, macro, and looping. There's a time and a place for "not standing in the open", just like there's a time and a place for taking a hit or even agro. But you aren't going to be able to hide reliabily, all the time, every game.

Planning to hide from the lobby is completely countered by being found first, where hook notifications and camping alone are enough to get you tunneled out. The only way that doesn't work is if your killer is quite literally playing with their monitor turned off and not using their eyes.

well your the one saying stealth isnt viable….so based on your own argument it makes sense that it takes some skill to pull off something thats not really viable and something you seem to think isnt an alternative playstyle to just looping wouldnt you say? im not actually saying hiding in a bush is skill but i am saying hiding while doing gens is something that people seem to struggle with doing so must have some skill involved….notice i said while doing gens. i dont just hide i actually do the objective too. no tactic works reliably all the time, not even looping or tunneling but it works enough and i can do gens while hiding well enough to either get the gens done, or stay alive to get hatch many many times.

well if your found first then your stealth has failed you….if your downed fast your looping has failed you also. its up to the team to crank out the gens asap before unhooking last min.

my number 1 rule is dont get found first. when the match starts everyone rushes out like headless chickens, i slowly walk to a gen or a locker because i know the killer will probably be heading my way and i dont want them following my scratch marks. when the killer leaves the area or chases someone i get on a gen. this way of starting the match often sets me up to be in a good position.

What people dont seem to understand is skill is not needed to win for either role, survivor or killer. But regardless of that fact, i can still do gens, remain hidden, even lose line of sight to lose the killer so i can get back to doing gens, these are things people could be doing instead of relying on looping. like i said, i have won many matches without doing a single loop playing it my way. i dont get tunneled, i enjoy the match and i escape a lot.

Can you do gens and escape without looping? i have many times by not being seen, doing gens and walking out the gate.

Ah so this is why you combat any suggested nerf to SWF, because you play SWF. Makes sense now.

More like because its a dumb idea.

######### around with SWF is one thing that actually will kill DBD. The negative press alone would be hugely detrimental.

indeed, the outrage that people cant team up for an advantage would be deafening lol. this is why killers have been buffed, to handle SWF so any solo players with issues can thank SWF players for that. But atleast SWF teams are ok

That's…. genuinely not true?

The SWF and Solo escape rates aren't even that different. God forbid people want to have fun with friends? Weird concept, I know.

but on the argument that kill rates are inflated from tunneling….SWF are inflated from the comms. if killers need to learn to play the game without the crutch of tunneling then surly SWF should learn to play without the crutch of comms? Many have openly said "never playing solo again" because they just cant win, they need SWF.

do people really need comms to have fun with friends? it seems some people admit they dont always have comms in a SWF and have fun so why is it needed?

How are you possibly going to regulate comms lol what a ridiculous statement.

If a full four-man SWF is adding 2% to the Escape Rates, I think we're okay. "Inflating from comms" by a whole 2% lol.

Here's a fun fact: Misery loves company. Even if you are having a sucky game, sometimes, playing with your buds can ease that pain. Sometimes, you can still find joy in that suffering. Goes for real life too, friends in hard times can be a lifesaver.

No, all you did was post a fallacy of a fictional headline.

Would you like a third try? lol

im not saying it can be regulated, im simply saying the gap between solo and SWF is too big, comms for solo have been suggested but people shoot it down instantly almost like they are trying to make solo as bad as possible. i think we are all aware that the statistics bhvr publishes are worth nothing due to abandons and DC not counting so we dont actually know the true figures on this one. if we are going by these statistics then kill rates with tunneling is acceptable too? generally kill rates are around 60%

how is it that SWF gets advantages that solo dont have via call outs and such? why are solo players being punished for not playing with friends? any nerf to SWF wouldnt be a punishment it would be making things even, its called balance. playing with friends on comms means they get something solo dont. personally i think solo players should have something SWF dont….but thats not fair either, people missing out on something because they have friends.

Or instead of nerfing people for daring to play with their friends, we level the playing field by giving Solo Q some call outs of their own.

You act like the gap between them is something massive. It isn't.

Bottom row is the stats for the whole world. First column is Solo, second is Duo, so on and so forth. Solo Q escapes 38%, 4-Man SWF escapes 40%.

like i said, bhvr stats throw out any match where someone abandons or DC's as mmr isnt effected…possibly hatch escapes too, not sure on that. so using these is unreliable. what about killer stats? isnt that at 60% but thats with tunneling….yet we want it removed?

the day bhvr give soloq full aura reading, wall hacks, hex auras for all if 1 person finds it, gen auras for all when 1 person find it, killer aura at all times….this will be the day solo is on par with what comms can do for SWF. think it will happen? unlikely because it would break the game lol.

Oh yes, my experience is quite different. Ratting in a locker or tunneling at 5 gens is not a reflection of skill in any match I play in. Quite the opposite.

you can dismiss this if you want by saying "people dont really do that because i dont do that"

I'm telling you lots of parties aren't on comms because it's a fact you dont want to hear. I'm also telling you it shouldn't matter that much. If you truly can't win without tunneling and the SWF boogeyman is your excuse, you're in the wrong MMR bracket. I can only hope these watered-down measures help with these problems at least a little.

But if someone is going to tell me "dont tunnel at 5 gens" then i could say "dont use comms in SWF"

Man, you sure love false equivalence. Tunneling at 5 gens comes in one form. SWF on comms comes in many forms. They are not the same.

the question i ask is who is having more fun in the game? as survivor: me or someone being tunneled because they wont play stealthy? as killer: me or someone that loses killer matches over and over because they refuse to tunnel?

Me, laughing and joking with friends while not being obsessed with winning while I rat in a locker and me, still winning as killer without crutching on tunneling.

Many use it in COD, Rainbow Six and it helps teams a lot. Also makes the game more sociable and enjoyable. You don't have to use it but I'm sure many would be very grateful to have teammates be able to tell them: "Hey killer is tunneling. Come bodyblock for me." Why punish the killer players when a fair system like this would solve everything? The lack of communication is the main reason solo q players can't do anything about being tunneled or slugged or camped. You're looking at the negative too much when COD has had a comm system and that games been popular for ages.

we dont know that because bhvr isnt giving accurate stats. what the stats dont tell you is high mmr SWF teams often go against S tier killers like nurse and blight…which makes sense because they are pretty much the only killers than can stand against such teams. you wont find many wraiths, ghost face or trappers playing high mmr if you did you would find the escape rate far higher simply because the comms break the game for these killers.

the fact its been clarified on the official forums that any match with an abandon gets thrown out because it doesnt effect the MMR? thats proof that the stats published are inaccurate and misleading.

Oh no, people have...friends! It's almost like that gives me perspective on how the SWF boogeyman isn't real. Not everyone is aggressive with it or playing like a well-oiled machine. Some people are just goofing and having fun. People endlessly lament in this forum about playing soloq or killer, yet no one every complains about SWF except for the people on the outside looking in, because they want a scapegoat for the game's problems. Being able to play with friends is one of the only pleasant things in this game right now. Punishing or discouraging that would be idiotic.

wheres your proof? the fact that the stats are unreliable and misleading is enough to question the whole thing. some people use the abandon as the new go next, a match they could have won but decided not to try so a potential escape has been swapped with an abandon. these are things that effect the stats.