Why do they never address why killers actually tunnel ?
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Still waiting for your proof of your huge claim.
All you've done is show that without Abandon, the KR would be higher.
If you are just going to bait people and troll, I'm content to continue watching.
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so your expecting me to offer proof but not prepared to provide any yourself?
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Considering you are the one making the claim that BHVR is lying and falsely advertising/providing a disinformation campaign…Yeah, I'm expecting you to provide proof first. Especially since I asked first.
Not gonna let you weasel out of it.
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No it doesn't. I've been watching streamers playing survivor and getting 3 digit hours killers almost every match and they're puzzled. This is also my experience with the occasional "High" MMR killer but in those matches I get not so good teammates.
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if these are not tracked, how accurate are the stats?
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doesnt explain how some people are getting swf constantly while others are getting mostly solo players
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Observer bias and if I would get a euro every time I hear SWF claims when playing solo.
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Spoiler: they don't
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sounds like dismissal of player experience… i have had the same 4 man SWF team like 5 matches in a row….then i get 3 man swf and then get the 4man swf AGAIN. it got to a point where the swf teams were asking me to dodge them when i see them in lobby because we keep getting matched. the wanted to play against a different killer, i wanted to play different survivors but its what we get matched with
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I'm an average player but my KR is 83% for the month out of 200+ matches. Do you really think it'll give me potatoes with that number? Even if I try a new killer for the first time, winning 20 matches in a row quickly shifts me to better opponents. My killer matches are full of body blocking, DS, DH, Unbreakable, Made for This, Vigil, syptics, and syringes. Chill doesn't mean bad or suicidal, I just match the lobby's energy. If they're psycho, I'll kick it up. If something goes bad in the match, if people sandbag or DC, I let the innocent parties do the gens and leave. I give skilled or cute players the hatch. My overall stats could be higher because of that but they don't matter to me. Not being an additional source of misery in this game does.
I know I'm not high MMR as surv but playing with skilled people drags me around the brackets. Killers tunnel at all brackets because it's cheap and easy. Tunneling killers in your matches says absolutely nothing about what MMR level you're at.
But do you see anyone ratting in those SWAT teams? Upper MMR survivors don't do that. Everyone takes aggro, body blocks, and supports each other. If you think you're upper MMR as surv by ratting in a locker your ego is deluding you. And, as you know, abandons and DCs don't count as loses and hatches don't raise MMR, so your survivor stats no longer prove much.
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another dismissal
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Where's the proof that they do? Assumptions?
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You most likely then play at time when there is not enough people of your skill level around so it gives you that team again as they are your mmr. There is nothing sinister there.
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They KR is lower because the most common use of the Abandon feature is at the end of the game, when the Killer has downed the last Survivor.
Congratulations, you've proved the effective KR is ABOVE 60%. And you are asking for more buffs.
What a joke. Hopefully everyone else can see the absurdity of your position.
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Thats not true at all. Tunneling when your teammates actually run anti tunnel perks and actively help their tunneled teammate don't struggle at all to prevent them from dying early, granted its far easier on comms. You can easily run empathic connection so teammates can find you when they need a hit or Babysitter to give extra basekit speed and stealth, plus Borrowed time for extra endurance. Pretty much all survivors should be running at least OTR if they don't own DS, but preferably DS since its uncounterable unless waited out or you have a mori, which even then you can force grab or locker.
Respectfully, you can't say tunneling is easy if you haven't actually tried to stop it yourself. Survivors need to realize how much power they have outside of gen speeds. They're the stronger role, they shouldn't be getting steam rolled because the killer needs to force someone out to keep the pressure up, its a valid strategy in response to the ridiculous gen speeds that can be achieved right now.
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my own matches, what is it with you people and your proof but failing to offer any proof yourselves. can you prove they dont?
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my proof is that stats are inaccurate. now where is your proof that the most common abandon is at the end of the match? where is your proof of the survivor DC rate v killer DC rate in high MMR? if we are going on proof, i have proven the stats are flat out wrong. your turn to prove your point.
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Cus you can claim whatever you want? I can claim that I get blight ghoul every match with 4 slowdowns and they hard tunnel from the start. It must be true right?
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so because we cant prove this then you dismiss my experience and i dismiss yours and anyone else that gets different to me? interesting way to get current feedback on the state of the game…we only go by our own matches and ignore the views of others, fair enough. cant expect anyone to take your views seriously if you complain about anything happens in your matches
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Isn't that what you're doing though?
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you admitted mmr does make a difference then. not enough people of my skill level so it gives me the same team over and over because they are the same level as me…. they are not giving me low mmr solo players that are new to the game when numbers are low….i get same 4man team
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how am i dismissing what others experience in their matches? im simply saying what im experiencing and the response is "prove it" "doesnt happen". faie enough, cant argue with that mindset, so why bother lol
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Maybe you do but not even streamers that play this game every day get them all the time. Same goes to people that say they play against s tiers every match. Is the survivor pool in your region just of those swfs?
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I'm currently in the process of tracking my stats for 30 days and noting abandons and DCs to see if there's a sizable difference between the stat page and what I write down. I'm eager to see the results.
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its possible, i play all night from about 8pm to about 4am almost every night. even as survivor im getting the same survivor players on cycle. if i get matched with 1 duo or a 3 man swf at the start of the night i will get them again multiple times throughout the night. the players rotation i get matched with is more reliable that the map rotation.
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As am I
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as killer or survivor? or both?
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This is a valid assessment. I play at 4am in my zone and often see the same people, regardless of role. Sometimes parties, sometimes not. I've also seen other people who play at weirdo hours make this claim as well.
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I mean yeah not a lot of people will play Dbd at certain hours.
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Killer. My survivor stats are probably accurate as I don't DC or abandon, and I'd like to keep them that way. With killer, it'll be other people's choices potentially altering my numbers, not mine.
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Isn't the killer stat fine though? From what I've seen it's only recent match history that is broken but the kill rate is accurate. Can't say for escape rate.
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we dont know because the wording has been "dcing and abandoning matches are not tracked, since your and their mmr is not effected. does this mean the match as a whole is thrown out or just for that one person the DC? if a survivor abandons and the killer kills the bot does the killer still get the kill or is it thrown out because of the abandon? if survivors abandon but 1 escapes is the match considered an escape for 1 person but void for the rest? are killers getting kills via bots but survivors not getting deaths?
with the mmr being included with this, it throws the hatch in question too. the hatch doesnt effect mmr either for either player so is the hatch considered a void match or an escape?
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ok yes true but how are new players or even casual players supposed to learn loops when they are hit right off the hook and now it’s every game almost. The proposed changes won’t make a difference and more will just leave
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I don't know. That's what I want to see. The survivor stats I'm fairly sure are vanity stats after that post about it (and the complete absence of clarification), but the killer stats might be slightly affected too. If two people abandon at the end and one shows up in recent matches as an escape, does it really not affect the numbers? We shall see. I've only been doing this for a few days and already have 5 of those instances, so I should get at least a little info.
I would love for someone who is okay using the abandon button to do the same test and see what numbers they get as surv. I believe a lot of these 60% ERs I see that don't make sense to me are probably 40% or lower because these people are just the last to die and hit he abandon.
I'm pretty unbothered about most things in this game, but the idea that the stats might be gaslighting survivors into thinking they're doing better than they are—and maybe their complaints aren't valid because of it—has really gotten under my skin.
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I'm actually going to keep track of my escapes now and see what's up in the 30 days escape rate.
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Just a quick testing from yesterday: 18 escapes 10 deaths (with abandons = death) = 64% escape rate
Now basing it off recent match history: 19 escapes 7 deaths 2 nulls = 73% escape rate if those two nulls don't count. Or 67% if you decide to count them. Either way it's slightly inflated.
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How often do your teammates abandon when you play Survivor? Because from my understanding, any match with anyone abandoning is thrown out, so your Survivor stats might be thrown off from the official tracker, too.
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It's definitely worth posting if something turns up
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Fairly often, like most people's lost matches. My numbers usually feel accurate in their mediocrity as well. If they're not, and I have zero control over even my own numbers despite never using the abandon, I'm going to be pissed. But it would confirm the tracker and abandon button exist just to make survivors feel better about their bad experience. Because it can only be higher—and never lower—than the true number.
I keep track of my survivor matches anyway so I guess I'll add other people's abandons to my note criteria and see what happens.
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It wont change because tunneling will only be harder but still woth it than spreading hooks which makes it still the best option.
Look if I started to tunnel with ghostface against decent team on 3 gens because two were highly progressed and I was loosing preasure, now I will have to do it much earlier because I will know doing it against same or simular teams it wont be possible to gain that preasure on these 3 gens situation so you will see it way more or just few same killers over and over and guess what they will most likely do it too.
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being as we have now come to the conclusion that people need to test these things themselves due to how unreliable bhvr stats are…. if kill rates are not effected by survivors abandoning and killers killing bots still works out right i would be interested in how many kills killers are getting from bots when people immediately DC or go next. while abandons not being counted suggest a possible inflation of escape rates, these bot kills and go nexters suggest kill rates may be inflated too.
for example, i had a match recently where my solo team DCed at the start of the match v deathslinger. they basically handed the killer a 3k that they may not have had if the survivors didnt go next. this inflation of kill rate might seem like the killer is doing well, maybe too well and needs nerfs. but in reality when they go against people that dont DC in 5 seconds they get steamrolled by the survivors.
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are killers getting kills via bots but survivors not getting deaths?
I think it will turn out to be this.
The first day I stated writing this down I played 14 matches. 12 were 4ks, resulting in a 92% KR for the session. Out of these, 11 had abandons and 1 had DCs. So every match would have been tossed accept the other two, leaving me with a 50% KR. But my rate with that killer for the month is 88%, a number that would be impossible if the wins were tossed. Even if you just subtract the bots and not the matches, I had 19 bots out of 56 opponents. My stats would have to be lower.
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Kill rate doesnt mean that killer is strong because if we will balance the game around kill rate only pinhead,pig,vecna,freddy,sadako,skullmerchant will have to get nerfed hard and killers like huntress,slinger,nurse will have to get huge buffs and something like this was there before and it didnt worked.
If you think these killers that I mentioned will need huge nerfs because their kill rates are very high are broken than strongest is vecna (a-tier but now more high b-tier because of more pallets) than freddy (high b-tier, he had almost same or same kill rates when he was d-tier before his rework), pinhead (b-tier because of pallet changes, wont get touched probably untill bhvr get his lincense if they dont wanna end up in court), sadako (c-tier, have just teleports and thats all), pig (just traps that create new objective and stealth but just pure m1) and last skullmerchant she has still very high kill rates even the fact she is deffinitely worst killer now in the game.
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I didn't mention anything about nerfing X because they have Y kill rate. Don't put words in my mouth.
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you're right. however i can't think of a way to buff new players against tunneling without also affecting the more skilled levels of gameplay. perhaps they should add a beginner queue up to a certain level where the game mechanics are altered and the match is overall slower so that players can experiment and try out killer powers, survivor strats, etc. alternatively they can improve the tutorial and include some kind of recorded videos for the new players to watch that clearly explain looping, stealth, etc.
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Out of those 14 matches I previously mentioned, 6 had DCs. A total of 7 DC bots. So I'll get some info there from the killer side. But the only way I'm going to get any meaningful numbers out of this is to play really aggressive and win a lot, since most DCs and abandons are because of killer behavior, sheer hopelessness, or 4ks. So I don't know how that will go. Funny enough, killers who win less probably have the most accurate numbers.
It'd be nice if multiple people tried this experiemnt. It'd also be nice to spread it beyond the forum to X and Reddit. This is a big issue and the post about it got buried by doom posts, as everything does.
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i mean you dont really need to play aggressively, pretty sure people are still DCing v ghoul and krasue at the sight of them.
all i know from my matches a while ago was my myers kill rate was between 80 to 90% kill rate across about 2800 matches. and many of these matches i had people run up to me to get tombstoned before i even did anything simply because they all said "myers is boring, doesnt chase".
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Yeah no I'm not going to play as either of those. I don't even have them unlocked. I can do okay enough without the overtuned killers.
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This is not COD, this is not Rainbow Six. It doesn't matter how many use it in those games. What matters is that everyone is using it in this game. If not everyone is using it in a game, doesn't matter how grateful you would be for teammates to be able to tell you thing if they aren't doing it.
Seriously, built-in voice comms in DBD is a dead horse that has been beaten into paste.1 -
Dead by daylight has the same feel and similar to COD. Both are competitive strategy games. We can agree to disagree but everyone deserves a comm. Friday the 13th had it and everyone loved it.I dont see what the issue is as it would benefit both killer and survivor.
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