The Devs Make No Sense for Ignoring Human Nature
I don't understand why the devs continue to try and push that this is a party game and not a competitive game. The moment you put Human A against Human B you will get competition. That is human nature. The devs unwillingness to accept this has continued to harm the video games immensely. Mario Party is THE party game. It's not marketed as a competitive video game. Humans make the game competitive. That is how we work. The moment the devs accept this fact the game will get better. Also, show people their MMR. It still makes no sense why we don't know our MMR and how much we gain/lose during a match victory/defeat.
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If you show people their MMR they will use it to invalidate each other. This already happens with people just assuming theirs and other people's brackets.
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I don't recall the Devs ever arguing people are not allowed to win playing DBD. Maybe you're from another universe or something but that didn't happen here.
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I don't think they've ever insisted it's a party game—that's the players themselves doing that. BHVR has been active in trying to get it to be more competitive for a while now, including backing the tournament scene. They just never fully commit to it.
I can only imagine with how intent people are about sharing their stats.
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They should have never made that damn stats page. It's like you're obligated to show stats to have any leverage. It'd be the same with MMR, though at least that can go both ways. "You're low/high MMR so you don't understand the problems of high/low MMR."
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I'm still not signing up for it. The milestones tell me enough. 😝
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I whole-heartedly recommend not doing so.
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I would like to see it when they’ll change win conditions both for killer and survivor. Killrate is so useless in this game as well as ER
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I don't think changing the ways wins are handled would solve anything. Other than maybe make it so that the survivors are counted as a team, when determining wins/losses.
- 0 escaped / 4 kills - Win for the killer
- 1 escaped / 3 kills - Win for the killer - No additional gains for the escaped survivor
- 2 escaped / 2 kills - Tie
- 3 escaped / 1 kill - Win for the survivor team - No additional gains for the killer
- 4 escaped / 0 kills - Win for the survivor team.
But as a way to further improve things, having more factors play into how you gain/lose MMR would definitely be helpful too. Individual attributes, like chase time (longer for survivors / shorter for killer), chases won, objective percentage done / prevented, hook states, so on and so forth. These stats are already tracked by the game, so why not make it a part of the MMR system? 🤔1 -
How is this a party game with such a severe lack of content? If anything, Behavior has been desperately pushing for this game to be competitive. The game is so simple and one-track minded, yet with a lot of exploits and tech. It’s very much geared towards the “win or lose” mindset. There are no killer bots.
It can never truly be a competitive game though, since it’s asymmetrical. I wish it was more party-like. We really need more modes and objectives.1 -
These stats are already tracked by the game, so why not make it a part of the MMR system?There's a few things I'll defend BHVR on and this is one of them (though I do think they should treat the survivors as a group). But there's a few reasons why putting individual stats into the MMR wouldn't work.
1: Players that are better in chase or prioritizing objectives are more likely to escape, making rewarding doing the good action and the result redundant.
2: It potentially rewards playstyles that aren't actually as valuable. For example if you gave MMR for a successful flashlight save, and there is a survivor who never does gens but does flashlight saves, they are hurting the team (which is reflected in their overall escape rate, but if you gave mini MMR reward they might be increasing their MMR while hurting the team).
3: What is a good play is very context dependent in DbD (one of its best aspects). If you lead a killer on a two minute chase, but drop every pallet in the game, its not great. If you lead them on a chase back into the 3 gen that the others are trying to break, its not great. And we already have a system to determine whether players 'generally' are making the correct calls, overall escape/kill rates.
4: It possibly makes it easier for people to intentionally lower their MMR. Kill two survivors, then let a survivor lead you on an incredibly long chase.
5: The goal of the MMR isn't to determine whether a player is in the 70th percentile or 72nd percentile. It's to just generally put them in a category for matchmaking purposes. Even if such a system was done perfectly, and as I've mentioned above there's lots that could go wrong, you would be moving players very small distances which wouldn't really have an impact.
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Ties shouldn’t contribute to winrate, but currently for killer it contribute to killrate, and for survivor to escape rate, while it should stay static
For survivors, more people would be interested get rid of selfish play, as well as excessive altruism.
I don’t find it fair when one person was chased by killer for 5 gens and then dies. They deserve win, because they are the reason why it happened. Even if it’ll lead to win, such person deserve to keep MMR and not losing it.It also will allow to contribute “surrender” system. Instead of abandon of one person, I believe whole survivor side should stop to play, so it will lead to the instant end of match, keeping previous points. If bot in the game, there are the high chance that this game is thrown for teammates of person who left. If person still want to leave while his teammates not agree with this because of some urgency, in this case this player facing longer ban for matchmaking. Surrender no matter side also have lead to lose of MMR
Changing win conditions will change many priorities for players. Currently, this game don’t have actual definition for win, because devs still trying to pretend this is a party game when half of community treat it completely different. Ignoring or handicapping such players won’t solve anything. You can’t go against such players or convince them in opposite, because they already defined their domination in game by use of meta and different attitude. And you can’t change people attitude, especially when it is the desire to compete in PvP game. They not doing something irrational and wrong according to game genre or format.
But the main thing I expect to see is change of data collection for BHVR. I don’t appreciate their current methods. They are full of flaws, and don’t show how people actually playing the game. Their uninstall questionaree and showcase of map relation to camping, tunneling, slugging and etc. showed me enough :/ I don’t see BHVR clearly understanding game from different than casual perspective. Their data is full of prejudice and logical holes as well
Killer kill rate currently is compromised and spoiled of matches where survivors just throws games, while survivor one compromised by players who are interested in selfish play or DCes. I played yesterday, literally have same matches both from killer and survivor side
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But would that really be bad?
The problem would be people who dont acknowledge that things need to be balanced for low and high mmr at the same time. Its completely fair to say that some player dont understand some problems, but its wrong to say that their opinion doesnt matter bc of it.
There will always be new player or some who dont want to sweat, so its obvious that you need to improve their experience. "Get good" or statshaming will always be there, but thats just toxic people.
And there will always be people who reach "high mmr" and they need a fair environment. So both opinions are valid.
Without stats people cant differentiate between each other. And when both groups argue in the same thread, they both think the other one talks completely bs, bc their experience is obviously different.
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I don't know how helpful that would truly be.
For one, if you've played this game long enough, you've likely already seen mutiple MMR brackets. Your different killers will be in different ones depending on how you perform with them. If you play with friends as survivor and some are better and some are worse than you, they'll likely be dragging you around too. We've also all been backfill before.
Second, we all know this matchmaking is terrible. I never know what I'll get from one game to the next. There's zero consistency, and I can also tell when my opponenent/s are above or below my level. So what does your MMR even tell you when it's this loose?
Third, the stats page appears to count survivor abandons and DCs as non-deaths that don't affect MMR so how accurate can any of it be anyway?
And last, it will be very cliquey and people will 100% use it to invalidate each other. Everyone will have a visible team they think the game should revolve around. This week I've been hit with the "You must be low MMR" and "you're probably keeping your MMR low on purpose," two forum classics. I can't imagine how much worse it would get if we had numbers to brandish.
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But "You must be low MMR" is not helpful for the discussion anyway. Even if someone was, the opinion is still valid. For example: you could say a noobstomper killer is no problem, bc the survivor just need to get better. But if the first experience is so bad that people quit, it will hurt the game. So the opinion of a low-mmr-player is really important.
There are two scenarios:
A: You have both reached the mmr cap. You have different opinions and its just like that.
B: You are under the mmr cap. You understand why your experiences differ. Yes, some will say your opinion doesnt matter bc of i, but thats not the case. Its more about people being rude, but they dont need some stats to look down on others.
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Yes.
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And this is why this game cannot be balanced.
You have a casual crowd and a comp crowd, killer mains and survivor mains, and they all want buffs to their sides.
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