http://dbd.game/killswitch
Uninstall Survey is Flawed
There is no Options for Killer Problems in the Uninstall Survey
It makes alot more sense now why BHVR sees the major reasons for quitting as from Tunneling, Slugging, Camping as the main point, when the survey they use only asks about either Survivors issues, or blanket issues that affect the game as a whole, but no Killer issues.
Theres 4 Options that are limited to 1 side, and all of them are from the Survivor experience, yet not a single one for the Killer experience.
An Answer about Killer side stuff being too strong, but not a single option to complain about Survivor Perks/Addons/Items.
This is weirdly biased, it couldnt have been hard to add an option for both sides right?
An Answer about Killer Gameplay but none about Survivor Gameplay.
It has been Confirmed this is the Survey BHVR used to gain this Data, which is EXTREMELY worrying.
Cause it literally just means that no player who quits can even list their reasons if they are Killer-side related, which makes this data very skewed.
It definitely feels like Killer problems have been absent from almost every Survey, including this one it seems.
Definitely feels like this needs to be looked at.
Comments
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Also didnt list but 'Killer Powers being too strong' being such a blanket option feels off, as theres obviously a difference between complaining about Nurse, and complaining about Trapper, both being basically listed in the same option is off.
This survey definitely feels very limited in what info it can give
'The Higher tier Killers are too oppressive.'
'The Lower tier Killers feel too weak.'
'My favorite killer is buggy right now.' are some examples.5 -
Cause it literally just means that no player who quits can even list their reasons if they are Killer-side related
It's a bit blurry, but is there not a box for writing what your issues are right under the selections?
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Most of the time boxes that are manually written are harder to sort through and dont really add to the main data, its basically just 'Other', not to Mention most people dont go through Optional stuff in surveys.
And if they wanted Killer/Survivor related options to go in the optional box, why is it that only 1 of them should have to go write their issues in there?
Not to mention this isnt the only DbD Survey thats absent of Killer-side checkboxes, but its one we know has been used and what their results were, so given the context it doesnt look good.
Like 4 Options entirely for Survivor-Side issues, but they couldnt spare even 1 for Killer, idk maybe im completely wrong but this just feels off to me.
Plus some options make very little sense like:
'Character perks are unbalanced' (What Character Perks??? what Killer, what Survivor, which perks specifically.) (This one is so blanket that it feels very useless info-wise)
'Killer Powers or add-ons are unbalanced' (Which Killer, what Add-ons, too strong or too weak??)Post edited by chknTM on5 -
That's a reach.
- Killer powers or add-ons are unbalanced
You're the one assuming this means "overpowered". Someone could just as easily interpret that as meaning there's no point playing Trapper or Hag because BHVR keeps focusing on changes around Kaneki and Krasue.
- Too much griefing and trolling
This one affects both sides, but it's definitely more of a Killer complaint to me. Survivors experience it from other Survivors and some Killers occasionally, but Killers are the ones that complain the most about teabagging, especially at the exit gates.
- In-game communication is too limited
I'll give you this one, even though it's a general issue. Everyone struggles to communicate with one another. It's common to see Killers asking for advice on how to communicate that they want to farm points during events. But realistically, poor communication is more of a Survivor problem.
- Excessive tunneling and camping
This one naturally, is a Survivor complaint.
Aside from those last two examples, which one is still in the realm of a general complaint in my opinion, all of them are equal. Some affect Killer more than Survivor (like matchmaking), some affect Survivor more than Killer (like friends leaving the game), but I don't think any are so egregious that there should be outrage over it.
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I mentioned the exact problems you list yet you act like i presumed stuff i never said.
So we basically agree here, cause we both see the choice as too blanket to give any real substance, what data do they gain from an option that could mean a million different things, do they just assume what it means?
I will give you the point below being valid.
But i do believe trolling/griefing is alot harder to have done on the solo role, Killer, i mean nothing survivors do can be called griefing except to their own team, sandbagging, ratting out your team, doing nothing to help your team ect, and trolling can maybe refer to tbagging or flashlight clicking, so fair enough, it is still a very blanket option.
There isnt a singular option that is about specifically Killer-issues, and when we know that this Data goes toward gameplay altering decisions it is obviously not something to just shove under the rug.
I dont believe anything i said was insane unless asking for the Surveys to include a fair distributions of choices for both sides is outrageous?3 -
Most survivor players occasionally play killer, but there is a large enough population of killer players to have multiple discords, subreddits, and subsets of them entirely dedicated to griefing streamers and other players in general who will never touch survivor. Losing the 'average' player means losing someone who plays both roles, and you need four times as many survivor players as killers just by math alone.
But it also bears noting that this witch hunt for evidence of bias is patently absurd. There have been numerous patches, PTBs, and updates that were 100% killer sided. Obviously the devs won't come out and say "Yes, this patch is dedicated mainly on the survivor experience" because WE SEE HOW YA'LL REACT TO THAT. And you're proving the point. We literally just a couple months ago had a patch (9.0) that was 100% addressing killer complaints with zero buffs for survivor. The opposite, in fact. Innocent survivors were getting penalized and punished by the changes they made. The other side getting some attention after that is not some grand conspiracy to screw you, nor are you owed compensatory buffs every time a change is made.
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I think you completely misunderstand and misrepresent what i am talking about, and also i dont really get what you are referring to with the witchunt killer group mafia rant cause that is completely out of left field here.
Im just addressing how Killer issues have been absent on the past few Surveys, including the Uninstall survey they used to get the Data they used on the recent Community Stream
Not really looking to have a US VS THEM rant here sorry.
Also Patch 9.0.0 you list as being some super killer biased patch but thats just the FNaF chapter release patch?
The AFK punishments didnt favor any side or the other that was just a major screwup from BHVR, and it was killswitched one of the first days i remember.
But now since then we have gotten the opposite issue, a DC epidemic where anyone, both sides, can just leave a match now and then without triggering the punishments, leading to a worse experience all around.4 -
I didn't mean to imply you were insane by talking about the outrage, so fair enough.
This is where I'm at. It's really grasping at straws, especially when the changes that were made, possibly on behalf of the survey, didn't even go through.
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Theres no changes that havent gone through, cause the PtB is still happening, and their data source for pinpointing 'Camping, Slugging, Tunneling' is from this survey that happens when you uninstall, which has that Option right at the bottom left, and its one of the least blanket options, its very clear what it means, its not confusing or badly written like most of the options, its a clear cut answer.
But most of the answers arent like this, theyre very vague or could mean a variety of things, and most of all, none of the answers really fits specifically the Killer side, if a Killer player uninstalls i nearly guarantee that they cant get their reasons for uninstalling across with this survey, while any Survivor player in a similar situation could easily recognize a couple boxes as reasons to give.
Like obviously the optional filler box should never be the ONLY way for an entire side of the playerbase to express their issues in the entire survey? Hello???0 -
- The truth is that we players have a "partial" view of the situation; only Devs have "certain" data on the game dynamics. MAYBE Devs have statistics that show greater dissatisfaction on the survivor side. Consider that the majority of people who "leave" don't do it theatrically (for example, by issuing press releases about "X")... they simply uninstall the game and move on to the next game. Perhaps (this is just a hypothesis) the number of people who are still playing survivor is simply decreasing over time, and this creates a general problem for the game.
- EDIT: Okay, I read Mandy's reply (here on the forum) and it all seems to make sense. When you uninstall the game, a questionnaire appears, and it was implied that the greatest "dissatisfaction" comes from the survivors.
Post edited by ImWinston on3 -
But the issue is the killer players who uninstall are not getting their fair chance to give their reason of dissatisfaction that made them decide to uninstall. Even if there are more survivors leaving they still able to do the uninstall survey and submit their reasons of leaving but killers players are not allowed to submit their reasons via check boxes
The other box details (which can be used for both sides btw) is not the clearest collection of data due to the each person writing style it can be unclear or confusing and when going through it takes longer then checkboxes.
It insane how people are defending that killers are not allowed to explain their reason of leaving clearly via checkboxes when it should be on the survey right at the start.
What this has caused is bad biased data which in turns leads to bad balance choices like we have in the upcoming PTB.
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That's irrelevant. Even if there is, they're hard focusing on survivor gripes and ONLY survivor gripes. Killer gripes are a blatant afterthought. There's a clear and obvious bias.
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And you don't think there might be a reason? Like maybe that survivor turnover and historic complaints are higher and that's what they're focusing on right now?
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There's no valid reason. No VALID reason. There should be options for both sides. Point blank period.
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Ok man. The team hates killers and loves survivors. That makes perfect business sense.
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I never said hates. But there's a very clear bias towards survivors. You'd have to be blind not to see that. It's objectively true.
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Brother what are you on about? Thats a whole nother sentence you just shoved in his mouth.
DbD gotta be the only place where you can ask for better Surveys and itll somehow devolve into US VS THEM nonsense
Why is this even an argument there is ZERO downside to having the survey have Killer issues as options aswell, unless someone call tell me why Killers being able to list why they uninstall is problematic.3 -
Believing the game is biased towards survivors for no reason at all is illogical. If the survey currently leans toward survivor issues then that's the data they're interested in collecting. You don't think BHVR has way more info in front of them that this is based on?
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I do agree that the survey should be improved, especially that many of those options are just empty points without any obvious solutions. However I am surprised that some people think (in this topic and the one before with the suggestion of survey improvements - I did read both) the point choice system is better than the empty space where you can freely describe your issues to the people that want to resolve them. For me that should be the most important part of the survey, because how can someone make your problems go away, when you won't share them in full way?
Some examples would be:
Perks are unbalanced. Someone tick it and what now? There are so many perks in the game, do they mean we should re-balance them all or some? Should we guess what perks? This lead to no problem resolving, but if you describe what perks and why are behaving this way. Also there is a large number of people doing the same - now we are getting somewhere.
Changes to existing features. Again! What features? Should we guess here? Or do you mean all? No solution without describing your issue.
Killer powers or addons are unbalanced. The same story like with the perks.
And yes those are all the original survey examples, there are even more there and the point of my post is to show it don't matter what side you prefer and feel is mistreat here. It also don't matter if you have 100 options for every side if they are just empty slogans and you don't want to share what you feel was your true problem. People that tick options that say nothing really just make themself still suffer from their problems.
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Because ideally this would be a multi-step process:
Step 1: Release a survey to figure out what topics should be addressed
Step 2: After you figure out what topics should be addressed, release another survey to go into more depth on each of those topics.
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That would be a perfect world solution, but I feel also it would never happen without a more tight communication with the team. I feel like the team do read those topics here on the forum and I don't blame them they don't respond in most of them considering how are emotions flowing in them in negative way, but also it make the community voice here depended on what DEVs filter from our topics - and that isn't perfect.
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Why is this even an argument there is ZERO downside to having the survey have Killer issues as options aswell, unless someone call tell me why Killers being able to list why they uninstall is problematic.The point of a survey is to establish trends. Everyone who uninstalls will have their own nuanced reasons for quitting (as do people for playing), but as a dev they are looking for large general trends.
If you give too many options you lose the ability to identify any type of trend, too few and you can't ascertain people's feelings. That means you you need to narrow it down to the biggest issues that you need player feedback on.
The other option serves to clean up and look for trends that might be missed. If something begins to appear in the other option, you add it as a checkbox.
As others have suggested in other threads, we have no way of knowing if the players quitting are even primarily killer players. If they aren't then you're diluting the quality of the survey.
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Well thought out, i really agree with alot here, what really sucks is how blanket alot of the boxes are like 'I quit because of character perks being unbalanced' by itself doesnt really describe anything, and how being absent of any Killer-sided options is strange, cause its not like they used the freespace as a way to put any specific side issue as theres plenty of Survivor-side boxes.
The Killer experience can vary due to the various Killers and their powers all differing alot, so the least it should do is try to include as wide a net for Killers to complain in the survey as possible, and any further details could go into the freespace, but its rather like it completely avoids approaching the subject.
Bare minimum it should split up the 'Character perks are unbalanced' Option into 'Killer perks are unbalanced' and 'Survivor perks are unbalanced', as for 'Killer Powers/Addons are unbalanced' You could do 'Survivor Items/Addons are unbalanced'.
And as for other ones it could be 'My Killer is buggy/broken' and then you can use the freespace to write which killer and what bugs, how long they havent been fixed for, whatever you want, among other gripes.
Free space typing boxes are nice, but there isnt really a guarantee that your response will ever be heard with those, due to the manual review nature of them, while any boxes checked goes into the overall data.
This Survey shows up for people who Uninstall, so when a Killer player Uninstalls and they see not a singular box that can describe any of their problems, and only see the multiple ones about tunneling, killer powers, ect, that is not gonna leave a good impression, i feel, the absolute least a survey like this should do is atleast make your problems feel noticed.2 -
even if you are interested in a certain type of data you still need the entire picture, thats what a survey is for, not only does it narrow down the issues but it also measures severity. A well written survey is made to be graphed, there should be a killer related option that is specific to an issue killers often complain about so that graph can be used for comparison. You can measure how severe the tunnelling issue is and how prevalent other issues have gotten for the other side in your focus on tunnelling, camping and slugging. A survey has the potential to give so much clarity on so many things, but this one is (wether intentionally or unintentionally) biased, making it useless outside of a throwaway statement.
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Honestly, this survey feels really survivor-biased. Most of the uninstall reasons listed — like tunneling, camping, griefing, unbalanced killer powers, and limited communication — mainly affect survivors. Meanwhile, there’s nothing reflecting killer frustrations like SWF coordination, map imbalance, fast generator speeds, survivors having too many tools, or weak killer perks and powers.
When you have two sides that make your game playable, you need to include feedback options for both — especially on an uninstall survey. It seems like a no-brainer, but this one really misses the mark.
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I feel 2 things can be true at once. I feel that survivor is in a very bad state right now, and that many people that are uninstalling are doing so because of how terrible specifically the survivor experience is at this point in the game. But I also feel that the survey isn’t fairly representative to both roles, and there should be options regarding Gen speed, or SWF, to be listed for reasons for uninstalling.
Perhaps seeing these concerns will incentivize the devs to make the appropriate changes.
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It would be absolutely valid to list the complaints "Generators are too difficult to defend/ they are competed too fast" and "I lose too many hook states to pallet and flashlight saves". Both reasons that make the game absurdly unfun for newer killer players
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It's still better than trying to do everything in the same survey.
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Its really embarassing seeing how people try to overshadow the fact that 9/10 people are survivors and that it is much more important to get a detailed guess why this is happening. Also still completely ignoring that you can answer whatever you want as killer too.
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And what are the Survivor players going to do when all the Killer players quit because BHVR never listens to their complaints?
Like it or not, you need Killer players if you want to play Dead by Daylight. Or do you want this game to end up like VHS?
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Just wait, devs will introduce killer bots so survivors can have the bot killer they always wanted to play against.
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Never listen to killer players? Then explain to me how this game ended as a killer fantasy simulator? You have actually no valid reason to quit as killer besides being bored of easy wins. Why do you think killer queues are nearly instant right now compared to survivor?
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An Answer about Killer side stuff being too strong, but not a single option to complain about Survivor Perks/Addons/Items.
'Unbalanced' isn't just OP, it's UP as well.
Also, character perks is listed in the second column.
And what are the Survivor players going to do when all the Killer players quit because BHVR never listens to their complaints?
They used the exact verbiage of killer complaints in their explanation for why the 9-year awaited anti-tunnel update got tossed in the woodchipper within 48 hours.
They did the same when they axed Distortion, and with OTR. And with healing.
'BHVR never listens to their complaints'
I'm sorry, but killers are awful at communicating them. The vast majority of complaints are found three pages deep in discussions about tunnelling as they're practically only ever brought up in response to survivor issues being discussed.
With exact verbiage getting copied, it's pretty much undeniable that killer complaints have the devs' ears. The fact that nothing gets communicated isn't because BHVR isn't listening, it's because none of you are talking. We've got, what, five threads being indignant about the fact that tunnelling is on the exit survey, but no threads actually outlining the alleged issues killers are facing. Compare to tunnelling, that consistently gets threads dedicated to complaining about it.
BNPs? Never heard of 'em. Bully Squads? Who're those? Rampant hook denial? Is that a Tiktok dance?
Not to mention that any time these complaints get addressed, they get -immediately- swept under the rug. Any time issues get addressed or fixed, within 72 hours, there'll be more complaints that 'BHVR never listens'.
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It doesn't mention slugging, first off. Second of all, it's one question. I have a feeling that if it said "Gens are completed too quickly" instead, you'd tell Survivors to get over it. And you wouldn't be wrong. 😵
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Your second part of this. Well thought out and better criticism of the circumstances . Thank you for wording it a bit better.
Its why I try to make my own posts on thoughs, and disagreement with the path they are taking.
That way I air my disagreement with certain things. I may have god awful opinions according to some but if I dont stand up and say "hey this is my idea" then no one will.
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While you might be right, coming at it like this is not beneficial. You wouldn't want them to make the same claims as you do in said position would you?
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SSaying Never listens is a bit wrong. They have listened to killer complaints before.
OOne of the more recent ones is Fog Vials. No?
As well as their recent upgrade with the Ole stalky guy, Myers?
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Except BHVR constantly listens to their complaints. It's the survivor complaints that have been brushed off for years. "All the killer players" aren't going to quit. A few of them will struggle at their cheese tactics being reduced in ease of execution. Not even removed—reduced.
And they'll just have to do what they always tell survivors to do: adapt.
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In this specific position, I might. The reality is that nobody cared about this survey for good reason and, in my opinion, it's mostly an attempt to hijack the upset from phase 2's false promises. When you're that intent on being the center of attention, it's important to have someone that can help you snap out of it (general "you"). In my opinion.
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Okay, this is a bit more fair then I was thinking. I am also not trying to attack your view ppint(as I can understand how everyone has view points)
And that is a fair assessment. It is weird how there is a sudden anger against this. If people were genuinely upset(not saying op is not) and they knew about it before hand why use said feelings now?
And thank you for specifying they form of you. I would understand ether way but it does help prevent people from "skewing" your words.
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It's hard to be seen as a fair person when everything is so high stakes all the time. 😵 I don't think the anger is a conspiracy or anything, I just think it's a knee-jerk reaction to feeling attacked. A lot of people were angry about anti-tunnel/slug before they even saw what it was going to be, so they need something to blame. It's no secret that these surveys are brushed over more often than not, judging by what they ask, what the community wants, and what we ultimately receive. Even in this case, the changes attributed to the survey were pulled in record time. But the feeling is more important than the reality and there's hell to pay, despite how unreasonable it may be.
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It's the same thing as the concerns about the use of the word "handholding". A tiny minority is desperate to look like marginalized victims in advance of the ptb so they can dominate the narrative, again.
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