BHVR, I'm sorry to say, but the most recent Dev stream was the most "one sided" stream I've seen.
BHVR, I'm sorry to say, but the most recent Dev stream was the most "one sided" stream I've seen in a REALLY long time, for real. I cannot express my frustration more.
Subject: tunneling (also slugging).
If the previous PTB at least had a compensation to killers not tunneling. It was small, but it was there. Now, in this PTB, it's "mask off", completely. Insane measures against tunneling, with almost NO COMPENSATION for not tunneling.
No mention whatsoever of the reason why killers are doing it and why sometimes it's necessary, no mention about reducing "gen rushing" perks or Medkits, nothing at all. No deactivation at 1 gen left even.
If this goes live, this is gonna be the most one sided thing I've seen in a VERY long time. For real.
Tunneling is gonna be killed for good, and good luck if you're ever forced to tunnel in an indoor map, because survivors will 100% lose any killer.
Slugging, also, is gonna be made impossible, in those scenarios where survivors just die under pallets, sabotage, Flip Flop power struggle, etc etc. Essentially a free gift to insane teams with insane builds.
Also, the anti camp might be quite bad vertically on some maps like Midwich.
Almo2001 already told you: this might actually "kill" the game, like VHS, no joke. And this time, for real. Lack of agency indeed.
To fix this, a lot of killer compensation buffs when NOT tunneling are needed.
Comments
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I'm sorry if this seems the thread of a "whiny biased killer main", but it's the truth.
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Why would you need compensation?
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It certainly feels like no one on the dev team actually plays killer in a real setting.
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"If this goes live, this is gonna be the most one sided thing I've seen in a VERY long time. For real."
You should look at patch 9.0 then. It's entirely killer sided for what were at the time, some of the most common killer complaints about map offerings, extreme hiding, changes in spawn rules to slow down the early game, unhookable survivors in endgame, and 'free' 4% unhooking. And survivors got in return… extremely harsh punishments when tunneled. That was three months ago. 'Very' long indeed.
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The dev team desperately needs some Killer mains on call; the only way changes like this would even be considered is if in all the time they've been developing the game, they've never listened to an experienced Killer main discuss why Killers camp, tunnel or slug.
90% of the Killers who tunnel aren't doing it because they simply want to make the Survivors miserable, they do it because it's a winning strategy. If you want Killers to spread hooks, not camp and not leave Survivors on the ground, you have to make that a winning play. The proposed rewards for spreading hooks are laughably inadequate; Bloodlust 1 is nowhere near enough to compensate for the value of getting a Survivor out of the game early.
But the devs seem content to just nerf Killer and buff Survivor again and again; they gave Survivors Borrowed Time and Killers didn't stop tunneling. They gave Survivors Decisive Strike and Killers didn't stop tunneling. They made BT basekit and Killers didn't stop tunneling. They made Off the Record give Endurance and Killers didn't stop tunneling. When will they learn? All they've accomplished is making Killer feel more and more miserable to play, making more and more Killer players either quit or switch to S-tiers.
The devs have tried using the stick; it's time to use the carrot. But since buffing Killer seems intolerable, they fixate on the solutions that spare the feelings of Survivors. Because salty Survivor mains won't tolerate Killers becoming more powerful under any circumstances, for any reason, even if they ultimately benefit from those Killer buffs being in the game.
I'm not some crazy "The game is balanced when I 4k every game" Killer main, but it sure seems like the dev team is currently run by "The game is balanced when I escape every game" Survivor mains.
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Two words, gen speed
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So maps offering were a surv only thing? Killer never used a Haddonfield offering ever?
No, the map offering nurf was a plus for both sides as well as the AFK crows finally evicting people from their bush homes and actually play the game.
Also the anti-Go Next is the same its good as you cant say loading into a match just for a teammate to quit was a good thing.
The only thing that can be used to arguably say that killer got a buff that update was the spawn logic if it did what was advertised but only threw things off by making spawns completely unpredictable and the start of the match a complete coin flip, why do you think Lethal Pursuer is so popular?
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Which is totally fine if you have some kind of gamesense.
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... really?
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It was a necessary change, sadly.
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I’ll love to see them play live on stream.
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This is somewhat rhe same in what I discussed on my post that points out JCglitchmasters video about it, and I completely agree, these changes and ideas are the most bias and one sided I've ever seen in this games life time, and its genuinely upsetting
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Almo2001 already told you: this might actually "kill" the game, like VHS, no joke. And this time, for real. Lack of agency indeed.
Oh because we suddenly care what Almo of all people thinks or says.
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Pretending the 5% haste for not tunnelling is the same as the VHS (and other asymm horror) pitfalls of making the Survivor too good at fighting back is really telling.
They shouldn't go through with the antitunnel bc it wont fix anything, not bc it'll be too good at it's job.
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I mean anyone with a working pair of eyes can read the PtB changes and see its completely lopsided.
Surv gets basekit OTR, Babysitter, Wicked, Elusive every unhook, anti camp, anti tunnel.
Killer gets bp and a worse bloodlust that ends if u start a chase.
If we Switch the roles it would be the equivalent of giving Killers basekit BBQ, Pain Res, Agitation, some Undetectable every Hook, and 2 Systems against Survivor Strategies, and giving Survivors 5% haste for 15s when they unhook someone, but it ends if Killer enters a chase with them, and a BP Bonus when you Unhook someone.Obviously that is a HORRIBLE idea if you read it, Blight and Nurse being buffed alongside Trapper and Pig is like SWFs being buffed alongside Solo Queue.. oh wait.
In short, i believe carpet buffing survivors massively instead of fixing Solo Queues main issue is stupid, the issue isnt that survivor is weak, but the fact that solo queue is sometimes just 4 headless chickens running in circles sabotaging eachother, cause they cant communicate at even 1% of the efficiency a simple SWF can via Voice Chat.
Add VOIP, or a Chat-Wheel, any remotely viable way to give my teammates the simplest of information and it would make solo queue feel better than any countless amount of Basekit perks being taped on will.
Until the Devs finally bridge the gap between Solo Queue and SWF even slightly, the game can never be remotely balanced.4 -
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You don’t get it. Killers that tunnel for no reason are toxic, I agree. But some killers don’t have luxury like Blight, Billy or Kaneki to get quick downs and insane map traversal. If you play low 60 % of killers you will lose 2-3 gens at first chase and I dont think that running multiple slowdowns should be a must. To make game fun and balanced for both sides the main focus should be on closing gap between killers. I have huge idea I will post soon. But you can’t be surprised that Pig will tunnel you because you are the only one hooked and last gen is in progress. Killers need perks diversity. I also find it boring to go against same 6 perks all the time. But untill main issue - strenght between particular killers are resolved we can’t blame for doing hard to win in pvp games.
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Insane US VS THEM energy.
You claim a Patch that entirely benefits survivor is BHVR siding with Killer? I mean come on be serious.
You tell others to 'Learn to play' but how come you've never followed that advice yourself? You come off as very toxic while claiming others to be for playing the game in a way you disprove of.
This community has so many toxicity problems, cant even discuss balancing or play the game normally without people getting toxic.6 -
I have to say this take kinda confuses me a little, specifically the part about it being "one sided".
The main thing being addressed in this upcoming PTB is tunnelling, which is a survivor problem. Obviously it's going to lean towards survivor when survivor is the only role that has to deal with the problem being fixed…?
It's not as though killers can be tunnelled, or end up in tunnelling situations through no fault of their own. It's always their choice, it's always a balance problem, and it's usually also very unfun for the survivor (unless they're a maniac, which I say in awe and respect of said maniacs).
The secondary thing being addressed in this upcoming PTB is slugging, and we can immediately see the clear difference. Sometimes the killer does have to slug, and that's why those measures are much milder and more crafted around ensuring killers aren't punished for being forced to slug someone.
How well it accounts for those things we'll have to wait and see, but there's clearly far more of an attempt to be both-sided and nuanced there, because there's actually two sides to that particular problem.A lot of patches lean very heavily towards one side in terms of what changes are present, and over the past few years it's usually been killer. I'll grant this patch has more impactful changes being suggested, but if that's the problem then that's the problem, not that it's "one sided".
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I can't agree with that:
→ Killers can still tunnel and slug but will be way more difficult (except for Twins who was nuked by those changes)
→ Killer can still facecamp but survivor will have easier time to unhook themselves, yet you can tunnel them
→ Slugging will be still option, just when you have 3 alive survivors and 1 gen remaining, slugging won't be way to win anymore
→ They removed UI change, 25 % bonuses punishment, blocking punishment, removed the hook aura, delay notification etc.
→ They keep working on killers pretty well - Myers, Trickster and Skull Merchant's rework
I don't agree on the only bloodlust incentive that is limited by conspicious actions for killer though
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