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please.. buff springtrap.......

i love springtrap. he's my guy. i love fnaf and i love dbd sometimes kinda. it's a fun game, and springtrap is one of the most fun killers. not to mention he's just, awesome in general. his voice, his design, his lore, all of it is cool in a way that outdoes just about any other killer in the game.

his gameplay doesn't stack up, though. springtrap is one of the MOST fun killers in the game… when you're up against survivors that don't know what they're doing. see, springtrap has a well-designed power, but there's just slight, minor issues with it that make it borderline impossible to use in MANY instances. the geometry on a lot of maps completely disallows springtrap from hitting survivors- toba landing, RPD, withered isle and ormond resort are all maps that come to mind that have geometry EXTREMELY inconvenient for springtrap's power, but really, a lot of maps have this issue. springtrap feels like a joke to play as- and he's the punchline. i cannot describe how many times i've carefully lined up a shot only for it to be completely blocked by the slightest obstacle. the axe's MAIN TRAIT is that it's this heavy, arcing projectile that forces anyone within its area of attack to yield lest they get hit by a carefully aimed shot. that all kinda goes out the window when you consider the risks of throwing the axe at all. if you miss- and rest assured, you WILL miss- you've effectively wasted your time and given yourself an absurd cooldown on doing LITERALLY anything, from vaulting to breaking to even attacking or grabbing. none of that should be a problem if you just lock in and hit your shots, right? theoretically, yes, but multiple factors prevent "hitting your shots" from being an effective strategy- namely, hitting shots is hard. not to any particular fault of the player, no, it's the map geometry. as mentioned previously, certain maps have geometry that makes it impossible to hit survivors consistently. wanna throw your big, scary axe to catch a survivor trying to run a tile? nope, apparently there was a desk lamp just below where you aimed that stops the giant magic fire axe from moving at all, leaving it stuck mid-air, stopped COMPLETELY in its tracks all because its path intersected with a nearly imperceptible piece of office furniture. then there's the problem of corners. i'm not gonna sit here and argue that breaking line of sight is an unfair counter to springtrap's power, but i feel as though it's kinda stupid when you throw the axe at what you THINK is the very edge of the corner where it won't hit the wall but still make it through to hit the survivor, then it gets stuck in the wall and you look a bit closer and it just doesn't look right. like, it's basically suspended mid-air. and don't even get me started on the greenville picnic tables- from what i understand, that's a problem with every ranged killer. doesn't make it acceptable.

but okay, let's say you ACTUALLY managed to hit your shot. what's your reward? you can grab the survivor and instantly put them into the carried state, stopping them from reaching pallets and negating flashlight saves! doesn't stop flashbang or pallet or even last stand saves, but i digress. this is all assuming you can even reach the survivor in the first place. see, this is my BIGGEST issue with springtrap, i think. this is why i think his power is useless- you can hit the survivor, but you can't catch up. SO much of springtrap's skill expression is hitting the survivor with the axe, which is already NOT an easy feat if the survivors know what they're doing, but all of that skill is instantly mitigated when you factor in that once you hit the survivor, they can RUN. this is a problem on any other ranged killer, too, but with springtrap, half the battle is hitting the axe in the first place, so it's either he take the axe back and sacrifice his "reward" of being able to grab the survivors, then have to try and hit ANOTHER axe shot, or he try to catch up and either the axe is removed by the time he reaches the survivor or they've made it to another tile, making it far more difficult to actually catch and jumpscare the survivor. factor in the risk of committing to a chase like this and you have a recipe for a frustrating gameplay experience.

simply put, chasing as springtrap is NOT very fun. you're made extremely slow for using your power, missing has dire cooldowns and he's so tall that mindgaming is extremely difficult. it's not like it's IMPOSSIBLE to down survivors, it just takes a long time- time springtrap doesn't have if he wants to actually stop the generators from finishing and win the game.

now, onto the topic of his doors.

yeah, these suck. most obviously there's the problem of door spawn locations- sometimes they spawn right where you want them, and other times they spawn in the most inconvenient spots possible. let me give you a scenario; you've just hit a survivor with your axe and chased them down- it took you a while, but you finally got them into the dying state and hooked them. you have perks to locate the generator you need to protect and you're JUST about to reach the security door when suddenly, the generator is complete. by the time you get there the survivors have all scattered and even if they did stick around, you've already lost a generator, and they probably knew you were coming because of the screen panel flickering. i don't know why, but this happens SO often. the doors are so SLOW to use- first you have to reach the door, then you have to step into the door, then you have to walk through the door, then you have to exit the door. it doesn't sound like it should be that bad in practice but really, it is, and springtrap's dedicated door speed add-on, party streamers, makes such a small difference it might as well not even exist. you DO get undetectable for going through the door, but really, that doesn't do too much for you if the survivors saw you coming via the door panel or they were just expecting you and reacted quickly to the door opening. springtrap just feels so slow and clunky- from his 4.4 movement speed to his ineffective stealth/mobility power to his main offensive power, the axe, constantly hindering you or just straight up not working the way you want it to. even xenomorph's tunnels feel more useful- mind you, you have to MANUALLY navigate those, and xenomorph's anti-loop power is FAR better than springtrap's on account of it being made shorter in crawler mode and the ability just being much quicker to use. why is springtrap just so… BAD in comparison??? it barely even feels like five nights at freddy's. springtrap coming out of the doors CAN be surprising, and it's clearly meant to emulate how he traveled through the vents in fnaf 3, but it's just not nearly as effective. by the time you exit the door, the survivors are either long-gone because they saw you coming or they're able to run away because of the split second they have of seeing you exit the door, plus the established distance between the door and the survivor once they notice your arrival.

ALL of that being said… I have some suggested changes.

First off, the fire axe. Rebalance map geometry and fix the axe getting stuck on stuff it shouldn't be getting stuck on- trees branches included. Change it so Springtrap is no longer 4.4- he's 4.6 at all times. Now, aiming the axe now makes you move slower than before and if you hold for too long it eventually just throws the axe automatically or puts the axe down on a cooldown. Make it so the speed boost given to survivors after getting hit by the axe is calculated by how close Springtrap is. If he hits the axe from afar? No speed boost is granted, because not only should Springtrap be rewarded for hitting his shot, he also shouldn't be punished by perks like lithe or overcome STACKING with said speed boost. In this situation, the survivor does not need to make distance and doesn't deserve to. If he hits the survivor from up close? Give them a speed boost, because they need to make distance to balance out Springtrap being able to jumpscare them at close ranges. Also, since hitting axe shots from up close is extremely inconsistent, make it so Springtrap has the option to swing the axe like a melee weapon, holding it high above his head and lunging forward with little left or right movement. This just helps make close encounters a little less frustrating, because realistically Springtrap has no options when he has the axe held out and the survivor is up close and near a window; either risk missing the shot and suffer the cooldown or put the axe away and suffer THAT cooldown, giving the survivor time to run or, if you do hit them like that, missing out on the opportunity to jumpscare the survivor. Additionally, this melee axe lunge ALSO applies to axeless Springtrap. Instead of lunging and swinging the axe, he instead reaches out, and connecting with a survivor embedded with the axe will grab them. This just makes the jumpscare feel more like a FNaF jumpscare while also fixing the Myers Mori-esque jank of trying to grab the survivors in the current game. Sometimes you'll just swing your weapon and nothing happens, or the prompt appears and it seems like the game accepted your input, but you just stop in place, don't grab the survivor and lose a bunch of distance.

Second, the doors. Give Springtrap at least two more doors- this not only gives him more access points to ENTER the doors, but it also gives him more options for navigating the map, which he definitely needs. Make traveling through the doors at least 50% faster, make entering the doors faster, and make exiting the doors faster- and maybe give him a better animation for leaving the doors? He looks goofy when exiting doors, the way he just kinda stares forward and stands there like he just entered a room and forgot why. At least give Springtrap the option to look around while walking through the security office and exiting the doors so he looks more dynamic once he leaves.

Third, the cameras/stealth mechanics. Make it so entering the doors gives you an option to wait for a moment and reemerge with the undetectable status with a potentially shorter duration or whatever else would need done to balance it. Make it so Springtrap can no longer be scanned through walls, but the duration to actually completely scan Springtrap is shorter. This will make it easier to reveal Springtrap, but it's counteracted by how much better all other aspects of him are now. Essentially, survivors are incentivized to actually use the built-in counterplay and engage with the FNaF part of the FNaF collab.

And finally, my more "out there" suggestions.

When the DBD x FNAF collab came out, I was disappointed to learn that the Phantom animatronics weren't a part of Springtrap's power at all. Springtrap doesn't really feel like his FNaF 3 self, which isn't inherently an issue, but come on. FNaF 3 is easily my favorite of the original games, so the lack of representation for the game within Springtrap's actual gameplay mechanics makes me sad. To fix this, get the Phantom animatronics in here- just retexture Freddy, Bonnie and Chica. Who cares if Phantom Bonnie doesn't technically exist? He exists now. There's no reason he can't exist either. Make it so whenever the axe is embedded in a generator, survivors working on it receive more difficult skill checks. If this skill check is failed, the survivor is jumpscared by a Phantom animatronic and the generator explodes for more progress. The axe is instantly recalled to Springtrap and cannot immediately be thrown. Additionally, the axe can be manually removed by the survivor at the cost of being forced to be jumpscared by a Phantom animatronic and exploding the generator for less regression.

I love Springtrap. Please help my boy.

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Comments

  • Elan
    Elan Member Posts: 1,402

    I can see them do this:

    → Increase undetectable to 45s each time he tps

    → When TP he gets 15 % haste for 30s

    → Decrease wind up time, increase movespeed while aiming, decrease retrieve time, increase hitbox

    → Replace KI from area to aura reveal

    → Make tp speed faster

    → make grab distance bigger

    → both iri basekit

  • rezor132
    rezor132 Member Posts: 46

    I actually don't understand how you can call his power well-designed if you pick so much disadvantages in it. Let's be honest, FNAF chapter is poorly made, with no such an effort. The map is plain, there is no even a new realm for it, it is not indoor pizzeria etc. Just a small cafe that is not even connected to the 3rd chapter of FNAF. (and let's not forget the fact that FNAF chapter literally was an anniversary chapter in which we didn't get a survivor, so the map issue in this case looks even more sad).

    Now, about Springtrap. He really has a lot of problems with his power, like, as you mentioned, invonvenient geometry on a lot of maps, the actions with the axe feel very slow, Springtrap feels very slow, the door travelling feels very slow. I has just played a few games as Springtrap and it was unbearable, by doing any action i feel that i lose very much time. The stealth aspect is not working here too. Survivors know too much, they even can track if Springtrap travells through a door which i think is so uneccesary. His steps are too loud to play stealthy even including the fact that he should be stealthy, it just doesn't work.
    Survivors won't interact with the doors just because it's too dangerous and they won't use cameras cause of the same problem. How often do you see office jumpscares? I doubt if too often, personally I witnessed an office Jumpscare only during Springtrap PTB. So, I don't know why, but the devs didn't even think about the fact, that they were going just to lose money for the mechanics that would not be ever used.
    I have a lot of takes and other issues about this chapter but won't be describing here. If you are interested in, I posted a complete review on reddit- DbdRezorRreview - Dead by Daylight Springtrap FNAF chapter review (there is also a concept made by me in this channel, the way that Springtrap could be designed in DBD) There is something to read. But the saddest issue is that Springtrap doesn't feel like Springtrap, you don't feel any FNAF spirit while playing him (but you can definetely feel the Huntress + Xenomorph vibes). And even a sadder fact that he won't ever feel like the way he should. The devs will NEVER change anything about him. It's too expensive and too time wasting, it is always more efficient to make new mediocre chapters with hybrid killers but nevermind. The only things that we can wait for is just more useful axe, that's it. Unfortunately we will never get in DBD the Springtrap that we want to see, it's a lost hope but at least i THINK that making his gameplay not so frustrating and slow may be considered by the devs.

  • dark_hunter92
    dark_hunter92 Member Posts: 58
    edited November 18

    It's wild that you think this is needed, in case this is not a troll.

    This game i asymmetrical, not balanced to one side, but a little to the power side.

    Just because you're outplayed in one match does not deem nerfs or buffs. It just means someone was more efficient with their build.

    This is like me saying:

    • Survivor gains 15% haste after each successful pallet stun
    • Every time a survivor vaults over a pallet, make their scratch marks disappear for 45s
    • When vaulting a window, decrease their hitbox
    • When KI is active, also give survivors aura reading to detect the killer
    • Making vaulting faster
    • Decrease grab distance when vaulting anything
    • Allow survivors basekit healing and sabo.