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MoM created toxicity and abusive builds? I have easy solution
Preambula:
I totally aware of what Surv mains will say about belowwritten, just try to think about it calmly and give reasoned answers if you want to put any.
Ambula:
Instead of removing/nerfing/whatever second chance perks make them unique to character as killer's power is. So ppl wont be able to stack Rush, Strike and Mettle, simple as that. Killers have their unique powers, why Survivors are simple skin with no any difference at all?
Take one unique perk at each Surv and make it unteachable, especially prefer for that second chance perks. Something like this:
Dwight - Prove Thyself
Meg - Adrenaline
Claudette - Self Care
Jake - Saboteur
Nea - Urban Evasion
Laurie - Decisive Strike
Ace - Ace in the Hole
Bill - Unbreakable
Feng - Alert
David K. - No mither
Quentin - Vigil
David T. - Detective's Hunch
Kate - Boil Over
Adam - Deliverance
Jeff - Distortion
Jane - Head on
Ash - Mettle of Man
You will still have all evading perks like Sprint, Balanced, Dead Hard, Lithe, to plan your path at chases or try to juke when you was outplayed or mistaken.
So when you run SWF, for example, you need to plan your team composition if you try to achieve certain goals. Same for solo play - you wont just mindlessly take all second chance perks, but take other ones instead and create diversity of builds in games.
It will lead that Killers will do different builds as well cause they dont need to fight through brazillion second chances on each Surv just to hook him twice. I'm experimenting in builds as Killer, but I totally see, that Survs are using all same builds all time and my experimental builds simply dont work, cause they are hard-countered/useless against meta perks.
Comments
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They did something like that. It's called Identity V and learned nothing from it.
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This is not a good idea. Doing this would make the game boring and unfun. Killers complain too much. Survivors hardly have any good/fun perks. Stop. Hillbilly hitting people through windows should be dealt with
Post edited by Ajacks1337 on5 -
Survivors have a bunch of fun perks as well as Killers, but since second chances perks are abused those perks dont see plays at all. And since second chances perks are abused KIller abuse counter perks which leads to unfun and pretty much always same game. And that behavior was provoked by new ######### up emblem system when devs force ppl to play the game in certain way without choice.
When I play as Surv I have - Plunderer, Distortion, We'll Make it and Spine Chill loadout - and I have fun with it even though I'm bad in chases as Surv and get downed pretty fast, but I dont see any problem with it, I dont teabagging, I dont flashclicking at Killer, I dont abuse all second chance perks that are available.
But as Killer main in every game I see either all ppl loaded up with second chance perks or at least 3 of them, and that is forcing me to use nasty builds with abusive perks and addons - just to counterplay that BS or I will end up in 0-1k with team of teabagging douchebags in escape gates.
I dont care of pips/depips cause they have no sense in current system, I see a lot of ppl at ranks 15 which are playing way better then ppl at rank 10, clearly seeing them depip themselves to lower ranks to make fun of low ranks Killers which cant play at same skill level as they are.
I'm trying to play game to enjoy it and have fun, but adding more and more of abusive perks doesn't help at all. Locking most abusive perks inside certain characters will make this game healthier.
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I like the idea, the Passive perks for each survivors could change along the shrine of secrets. Think it would be actually nice having unique survivors as well.
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To get survivor character meta? Surely not.
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So its ok to have killer meta, but not ok to have surv meta? "Valid" point.
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One of the issues with this is that certain characters would be incredibly undesirable because not all of these perks are on equal footing. Take Boil Over and Mettle of Man, for example. If you had to choose between the two, it's a pretty clear cut choice as to which is the better option.
The other thing that you would lose in this is build diversity. Saboteur and no mither go hand in hand, allowing you to capitalize on sabo-saves and get yourself back up when the killer drops you. By making both perks exclusive to different survivors, you lose that build (or at the very least, you need to go without saboteur and be less effective at it in spite of it not being very powerful).
To a lesser extent, you also don't really want everyone to play the same survivor. Imagine you're in a lobby with four Laurie's and they're all running decisive strike. One gets unhooked by another injured Laurie, and now you can't tell which one is which because they're wearing very similar outfits. If you start chasing the wrong one, you're wasting your time because Laurie gets decisive strike and you just accidentally tunneled them off the hook, so you'll just have to leave them there and wait for the timer to run out. For killers it is not an issue since there is only one killer at a time, but being able to distinguish between two survivors in a given match can make a difference.
Just spitballing an alternative, but if the idea is to stop multiple second chance perks from stacking, you could maybe have a status effect like exhaustion to prevent others from activating after one is used. That would have the same effect but still allow people to play whichever survivor they want.
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Survivor main here;completely disagree on "survs hardly have any good/fun perks"'.
85% of survs perks are good and fun,imo.
Just because not every perk is Self Crutch or Adrenaline level,doesnt mean most of them are not good/fun.
4 -
just because you mentioned it:
The Hillbillys range through windows is just as much as any other Killers lunge range through windows is aswell. It is not broken, as any normal M1 attack would have hit you at that point aswell.
The only problem is, that the animation doesnt really work out too well, as his upper body will clip through the window, making it look bad.
Billy has no advantage over the other Killers in that point. actually, its even harder for him to pull that off, as he needs to go through a charging bar before he can do it.
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Wait so MOM did all this then the last 2+ year of toxicity and abusive builds by both sides have just been an illusion?
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remember when you said MoM would be niche? then how come i have been seeing 4x MoM every game? perhaps its because you were only saying that to defend your new OP perk that you want to abuse for cheap wins.
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ye..... what about those chainsaw hits that hit you when your feet allready touched the ground on the other side #totally the same as other killers
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Remember when you said that insert x perk(s) here would be op and meta and after a few weeks they became niche. Like how it is after every PTB and patch all you whiny killer mains say the same the sky is falling nonsense and get made to look foolish everytime.
Now to hit you with that thing you hate most LOGIC:
- It's almost as if a new character didn't just drop and people aren't excited to either play them and or try their new perks.
- It's almost as if this doesn't happen every patch cycle when new killers/survivors are released that everyone plays the new killer /survivor.
- It's almost as if everytime people don't play with the new killer and perks as well then try them out on other killers.
- It's almost as if this isn't a recurring theme with the same whiny killer mains spouting the same childish nonsense everytime.
- It's almost as if once the new toy shine wears off people don't go back to running their favorite builds again as usual.
- It's almost as if the new perks will become niche just like they do every time
- It's almost as if a new perk once released if problematic doesn't get patched shortly thereafter.
Oh wait all the above are actually facts and logically accurate and once again prove my points.
2 -
looks like MoM is quickly becoming the meta and you are wrong once again
but it's fine when you complain that the killer is 5 blink nurse with mori every single game isn't it?
pathetically hypocritical.
- "It's almost as if a new perk once released if problematic doesn't get patched shortly thereafter.
and yet here you are desperately defending an incredibly problematic perk
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jeepers it's almost like hillbilly both has arms and the chainsaw model is fairly long
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Why is it an issue in the first place? Its diversity of characters, someone wants DS, someone wants Boil Over, as killer main I saw Boil Over builds not so rarely in games. For some reason Killers are different, why Survivors cant be different as well?
Did you ever saw 4 Claudettes in lobby with totally same skin when you barely can see her in the first place and almost impossible to see at certain maps? And they all were running all second chance perks they could. Killing even one was like winning game.
Nice joke at No Mither - worst perk in game which is never used seriously. As killer when I see broken guy at start I say to myself - nice, free kill, and its always so.
I dont see problem if I will see 4 Lauries in lobby - I will automatically know that I need to deal with 4 DSes and change my perks build and playstyle accordingly. And if I will go for wrong one at abovesaid situation its my problem as killer which I will need to deal with. At least I will know that I wont see all 4 magically healed up when last gen pops and none of them can endure 3 hits in a row.
People choosing Killers for their powers/lore/whateverelse, so make Survivors be different too, not just skins for meta builds.
Also I dont see any problem if alongside with that change to Survivors some Killer's perks will be changed accordingly to prevent having big advantage.
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that is exactly what i am talking about.
Killers, by default, have a short range through windows, allowing them to hit survivors on the other side.
Billys chainsaw has the exact same reach over a window as any other Killer has, its just the animation that looks a bit odd.
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First, those are two separate discussions, and they are not comparable. Second, survivors have loads of great perks, even without considering MoM: Borrowed Time, Self Care, all of the exhaustion perks (Sprint Burst, Balanced Landing, Lithe, Dead Hard, and Adrenaline), Unbreakable, Iron Will, Urban Evasion, Decisive Strike (still good post-nerf, just niche), Bond, We'll Make It, Quick and Quiet, Deliverance, and of course more.
@powerbats, "Now to hit you with that thing you hate most LOGIC."
No need to speak down to people to make a point. Argue like a civil adult. Being ridiculous diminishes your points, not the other way round. Take the pettiness out of your argument, or don't argue at all.
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@powerbats, "Now to hit you with that thing you hate most LOGIC." Quit being petty and argue like a civil adult, or just don't argue at all. We're supposed to learn this stuff in pre-school, man, c'mon.
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Says quit being petty proceeds to toss out preschool insult.
I post sarcastic stuff to him just as he does to me.
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Looks like you're back to your usual trolling since you can't refute what I said yet again, those pesky facts keep ruining you.
Hmmn you all said Deliverance and Diversion were meta the same week they were out, and as the shine wore off gasp they became niche.
Then Jeff came out and gasp you said those were going to be meta now and gasp they quickly became niche.
Then Jane came out and you all said the same thing and they quickly became niche.
Then Ash came out and gasp it's not even been a week oh wah it's becoming meta now, i mean it's not like people didn't do this every time a new survivor perks came out.
Oh wait yes they did, new survivor comes out and everyone plays survivors and then gets teachables on favorite character.
Then after playing with new perks for a week or 2 they become niche and most people go back to their favorite builds just like always.
But hey don't let actual facts and game history get in the way of your lies again, I mean because if you did you'd have to admit you're wrong yet again.
Ah yes more trolling, couldn't refute my point so resort to more trolling, don't you ever get tired of posting that nonsense.
Let's see me saying a perk that's new and is problematic and will get fixed is me defending said perk. Wow that's some crazy logic, did you learn that on 4Chan or just throw cow patties at a board on the wall for ideas.
Oh and the devs have said they're monitoring it and most likely a fix at least for the killers that aren't ignoring it will hit next week.
But go ahead and keep making excuses like always, when the next survivor comes out you and the rest of the hysterical habitual whiners on here will say the perks are op. Then it'll be they're going to become meta.
After a few weeks they'll become niche just like always and you'll try and find some new excuse to blame your poor gameplay on. Then a new survivor will come out and you'll do it all over again.
The rest of us will be here laughing at you all for making yourselves look foolish like always. Again when you're ready to leave your fantasy world of make believe the rest of the responsible ones here will be waiting.
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every day you get more and more wrong, everyone agrees this perk is strong and the new meta, yet you are still being stubborn
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Arguing with him is pointless.
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Everyday you keep trying to troll and everyday you keep failing and the only one being stubborn here is you.
Facts:
You still haven't refuted anything I've said and instead resort to Straw Mans and just like always fail miserably.
This isn't a new meta and you know it, every patch when new stuff gets released everyone runs it.
Once people P3 said character they learn teachables and play on their favorite character for a few weeks.
Then like always they go back to their favorite builds just as they did with Jane, with Jeff, with Adam, etc etc etc.
You're right when you can't accept facts don't bother arguing with me because you'll just continue to look foolish.
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you can deny it all you want but everyone already knows MoM is now the best survivor perk in the game, especially because it compliments the preexisting survivor meta of adrenaline/dead hard very well
you also claim that everyone runs the new perks every time, this is totally untrue
nobody ran kates perks, the only one of adams perks that saw any play was deliverance, nobody ran anything other than distortion and nobody runs any of janes perks except poised sometimes, you’re just flat out in denial at this point.
2 -
So 1 perk that's not that bad on it's own but like says DS was with AD it's now the best perk in the game. Oh and don't lie, everyone runs the new perks when they come out or have all you whiny killer mains been lying these past 8 months everytime they come out?
Bahahaha nobody ran Kates perks or Adams, ok now we all know for a fact you're just flat out lying. For the final proof nobody ran anything but Distortion, I guess all those broken hooks from Breakdown were all illusions.
That must mean all the killer rnat threads over all those perks that nobody ran were just figment of the forums imagination.
Oh so no ones been running Head On so I guess all the killer and survivor complaints about it means no ones run it.
Now we have total and incontrovertible proof you're just a typical troll as we all suspected and you proved it all on your own.
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literally WHO is complaining about head on? now you're just pulling ######### out of your ass
ironic that you call anyone else a troll, the only thing you do is defend broken mechanics and bugs that favor survivors
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Bad idea because then you would only see Lauries and Ashs in matches with DS and MoM.
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I dont think that it will be so. Ppl abusing stacking of second chance perks. Now they will need to decide which one they prefer to use. My friends, for example, run different second chance perks, someone prefer AR, someone takes MoM, i dont run any second chance perks when I play with them at all, cause I prefer stealthy playstyle with Distortion and Spine Chill.
If you used to abuse second chance perks - I said it in Preambula - those ppl wont support the idea.
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They nerf DS after 2 years of meta dominance only to put another in it's place or working with it several weeks later on a new PAID character.
Call me cynical all you want but i refuse to believe this was a co-incidence.
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I think you forgot about a little tiny detail...
You can see survivors in the lobby.
You cannot see a killer in a lobby.
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This brings meta survivors. Aka if someones not using a surv that is good (for example Meg) then a person will leave.
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And one more detail: this basically punishes players who used their fav survivor (not for perks) and P3 50 lvl
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It wont bring meta survivors, noone ever left seeing me using Jeff, and I have 0 meta perks on him, cause I like stealth playstyle, using Small Game, Distortion, Spine Chill and Self Care/We'll make it (obviously I will change Self Care for We'll make it, or another perk if Self Care will be locked in Claudette). You can't see perks which are equipped, I saw a lot of ppl playing Blendette without Self Care, a lot of Megs without Adrenaline.
It matter of perk preferences.
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@Frozenscum That's the issue. You're only looking at yourself and situations that happen to you.
I've seen a lot of Megs with Adrenaline. A lot of Normal Claudettes with Self Care.
I use new DS because i play solo surv (sometimes swap that off with Adrenaline) on my Kate or Quentin. Like using Head On even for a while to get some meme time. With your system i cannot do that. Atleast - not on survivors that i enjoy playing as.
(also btw question - Is the "unteachable" version of a perk counted as a 5th perk slot? Or is it 4th)
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Its made-up issue. As I mentioned in TS post Killers have their unique powers and most of M1 Killers run exactly same perk builds since of game state atm - Hex: Ruin, Enduring, Spirit Fury and BBQ. For some reason ppl dont have problems with Killers have unique power, so it wont be issue to have unique powers for Survs.
I dont think that unique perk should be 5th slot, cause its still 16 perks against 4 at Killer side, adding 4 perks more to Survs side will be huge advantage.
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@Frozenscum "don't have problems with killers have unique power"
Yeah... cause y'know they are supposed to be diffrent. If every killer was a 115% M1 with a specific perk attached to them would you want to play them?
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Yeah, when you will know Survs will be different it will be no problems as well.
We have 60% of Killers that are 115% M1 with specific perk attached to them (power) and I play them.
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@Frozenscum Oh so killers have 5 perks now?
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Stop trolling, mate. It will lead to nowhere in discussion.
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@Frozenscum i'm just going off with what you're saying
"with specific perk attached to them (power)"
EDIT: But you might be right i should stop before this goes more downhill than it already did
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Ok, if this will be easier for you to understand, lets say that Killer power is specific unique perk that attached to him.
Anticipating further trolling about 5th perk slot for Surv - I said above that 20 perks at Survs side will add even more disbalance in game which already is Surv-sided.
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I’m confused at everyone worrying this will create a “survivor meta” for a lot of reasons.
1) Every game has a meta. It’s not a bad thing
2) There already is a survivor meta - it’s just focused around interchangeable perks that make your individual survivor choice almost meaningless
3) Survivor choice ISN’T completely meaningless right now anyway. There is a meta - it’s the Claudette meta because she’s almost invisible and identical in all other ways to other survivors.
I fully support this idea, and would even take it a step further: the survivor you choose MUST use his staple perk, and they should be rebalanced to be stronger than other perks. MoM is obviously strong as is - same with BT, DS... but maybe give urban evasion plus ~20% walking speed in addition to the faster crouch. Make saboteur normal paced sabotaging. Since survivors can’t mix the best perks, they have room for better survivor specific perks without breaking the game
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All I have to say about this perk boils down to a 30 second clip from the current PTB
The survivor then dced shortly after. Second chance perks are VERY commonly used and even spammed in some builds. The most common being dead hard(Only exceptionally good against nurse), Decisive Strike before its nerf(Now used as antitunnel which puts it in a good spot in my opinion), and borrowed time to prevent campers. Mettle of Man provides a free hit for taking progressive hits throughout the game. The tiny downside of showing your aura when you are healed does not even matter. Especially for killers who cannot capitalize on it due to lack of mobility and chase potential.
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o look MOM is ######### now. This game sucks for survivors now and killer wait times are ridiculous. Won't be playing for awhile even if Stranger Things is being released. Game doesn't deserve the money nor the time currently if you want to play survivor
Post edited by Ajacks1337 on0
