http://dbd.game/killswitch
How are we feeling about the pallet density v3?
genuine question. after going into customs and doing a quick view over the listed realms that got updated in todays hotfix, the pallets seem in a much more balanced state compared to last update. if you get the chance to see the changes feel free to comment in this thread about your experience and opinions with the changes!
Comments
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Just popping in here to say that I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so I can pass folks' thoughts on to the team :)
22 -
Gonna hop on and do some testing, to see how things are now.
Expect some screenshots, and a more detailed breakdown later.6 -
I'll definitely check out the update tonight after work and share my thoughts!
1 -
I wrote a similar post in the patch notes, but in my opinion, after testing in custom games, Autohaven, Macmillan, and Crotus Penn did a great job; it's the path to good balance. Swamps, Ormond, Yamaoka, Coldwind Farm, and Haddonfield (the latter two weren't mentioned in the patch notes) need a review; they still have too many dead zones and too many unsafe, nonsensical palettes. I hope you continue to read your players' feedback, thanks ;)
11 -
Ngl, I'm enjoying what I'm seeing so far. I think now they're getting this right but I noticed a weird thing. If you look closely, you'll see they used the same filler pallet in different locations in some maps like Autohaven and honestly it's not a bad thing just kinda funny. Swamp and Yamaoka still feels off but I don't know exactly what it is (I think I need more time to analyze both of these maps). Crotus sometimes pallets can spawn close to each other but it's not something super crazy since they're kinda unsafe and lead to stronger loops (maybe now we might see mindgames a bit more on both sides). It's challenging but interesting at the same time and the only thing that worries me is Blight shredding all these pallets but this is not part of the topic.
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If you're able to, it'd be incredibly helpful to see screenshots of the dead zones and unsafe pallets you're referring to on these maps. That way, I can share them with the team.
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I appreciate you getting so in-depth here! If it clicks why Swamp and Yamaoka are feeling off, definitely let me know here and I can make sure it's noted down as feedback.
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I had a couple matches on Autohaven and Macmillan that seemed a lot better. Less pallet dead zones but not overloading any specific area as too safe.
On Ormond it felt like there were more pallets but they weren't placed in many useful spots and most ended up being junk. I had to fall back on shack tile since it became clear the Houndmsster didn't really know how to play it.
0 -
I havent seen much but i've noticed the edge map pallets on pale rose are much stronger than theyve ever been.
Pallet quantity also didnt seem to go down1 -
Im a simp for the "L Render"
2 -
So I've tested new changes on most maps and can say that loops after this update on average feel a lot better than in a previous patch. Some loops were reverted and some changed to be much better balanced. However, theres's still some really strange unsafe loops on some maps, and some loops weren't changed almost at all.
I've grouped my research into different realms (sorry if the quality isnt perfect, I play on lowest settings possible).
Macmillan Estate.
I love that many pallets have been reverted, such as most rock and pathway loops. However, the usual "junk" loops, which are some of the most widespread loops in this realm, still seem too unsafe and barely changed from the last patch. These loops were not problematic to begin with, and community at large was fine with them, even considering Macmillan to be the golden standart for realms.
These variations of junk loops still need to be addressed (preferably reverted to the previous strenght, or, if not possible, additional boxes and crates should be added). The names of these variations are LD01 and LD02:
Most rock loops in Macmillan now are fine, striking the perfect balance between safety and mindgame potential, but there's one variation that seems a bit weaker than others. It doesn't need much changing, maybe a little tree on the side of the lower rock. The name of the variation is MD04.
Backwater Swamp.
Most of the Swamp wasn't changed from the previous patch, and I dont really have a problem with that (I still hope that Swamp visual update and rework is coming soon lol), but I've noticed a really strange discrepancy between so-called "poglogs".
So, poglogs are usually just edgemap windows that aren't bad and provide some safety in map corners. I don't think these should be changed at all.
This is an example of a normal poglog that still spawns most of the time on the Swamp:
HOWEVER, there's a rare strange poglog variation that just doesnt make sense. The big log on the left of the window is completely absent, rendering the window totally useless. Variation name is CcX_HD_03. I'm not sure if this is a bug or intentional, but all poglogs should be the same, and there's no reason to have such strenght discrepancy between these tiles:
Autoheaven wreckers.
I'm glad that pathway car loops, the loop with a pallet in between 2 white cars, and the green trash bin loop have returned. But some loops still need some work, for example the variation with the red car nearby (name 2P) still seems too unsafe:
And a different wariation of this loop (when the pallet spawns on the opposite side of 2 white cars) is also not very good:
Both of these 'junk" fillers need a bit more of tires and some other junk to make them more playable for survivors. Otherwise, Autoheaven is pretty decent.
Coldwind farm.
Coldwind fillers got heavily gutted in the previous update, and in this version it seems that nothing really changed. Some loops are even less safe then edgemap tiles on this map.
Pathway loops (StraightHD22) are still pretty unsafe, and since on Macmillan and Autoheaven these were reverted, I see no reason to keep them like that on Coldwind:
Most filler loops (LD21
, HD21,
HD23
, LD22) need more haystacks around them, since in their current state they are super unsafe:
This loop is not too bad, but needs a little more on its unsafe side:
The classic red tractor loop seems to be completely gone (correct me if I'm wrong but I haven't been able to find it at all) and replaced with this:
This just needs to be completely reverted, since this loop was quite unique and already nerfed in the previous update.
Asylum and Temple of Purgation.
These maps (and their respective realms) now feel a lot better and don't need many changes. There's only 2 cases in which, I think, a revision of loop strenght might be needed.
This pallet on Temple (LD02_Temple) needs to be a bit longer either on the left or on the right side:
Similarly, this variation (1Р) on Asylum needs just a little tinkering to bring it in line with other loops in this realm:
Yamaoka estate.
I haven't had time to test Yamaoka extensively. The one thing I've noticed is that one side of the shrine pallet (Bd_Fence113) got significantly weaker (much smaller rock), which is strange since it wasn't a safe side before anyway:
7 -
the ultra long log loop should be removed since every survivor runs to it since it wastes a ridiculous amount of time if you aren't running bamboozle or an add-on that does something similar
-2 -
Usually these logs are in the corner of the map, so survivor is guaranteed to get zoned and hit after some time wasted.
I'd rather prefer their spawn spots adjusted, so they don't chain into other strong pallets/windows, rather than removing them.5 -
Or just playing s-tier killer like blight who can just get around the whole log in few seconds and get that hit anyway, rip m1.
-5 -
But that's the point. It's on the edge of the map.
You can’t play this wrong. It's a window so it's not wasteful resource. It's on the edge of the map, so killer have big disadvantage downing survivor in corner, and it waste much more time than average z tile or corner fillers.
It shouldn't exist there. Corner tiles should be unsafe and desperate because you already wasting a lot of killer time bringing them there.
Would be more meaningful to place them in triangle between pale rose, boat and docs instead of some jungle gym if you want to keep uniqueness.. Usually there are 3 gen having a tendency to be spawned and based on my experience after one pallet dropped there are a really huge dead zone.
This log also have RNG be spawned beside docs, so with some lithe and +1 pallet you can make it infinite. Because you can connect this window to filler and another window without lithe, with it it's free W-6 -
Sorry Ryan, I'm a console player and it would be difficult for me to upload those kinds of pictures to the forum. Many photos above show the unsafe loops and dead zones that remain on many maps. I hope you can achieve a balance like it was before the first palette update. Thank you.
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Not necessarily about the pallet density changes, but would it be possible that you discuss bringing back the one house you removed a while ago from haddonfield. The map feels too small and the Myers house is all alone on the other side of the street.
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After testing I feel that this is overall much better and going in the right direction, with a few caveats.
My specific thoughts for each map:
- Macmillan is much better, I would slightly increase the safety of this weakest variation of the junk pile loop (there are some other junk loops stronger than this that are fine now and don't need further changes):
- Coldwind still seems like a lot of filler pallets are too weak overall and could use a little more work, I think this loop for example should be a little stronger:
- Autohaven is mostly fine, except for this loop in particular seemed like it should be a bit stronger, maybe add 1 additional tire to the side:
- Asylum maps seem better now. Disturbed Ward is definitely still nerfed compared to pre-9.2.0 (ie. before the original pallet density update), but that's completely warranted as that map was too strong for survivors before that update, overall it seems more balanced now that the number of pallets is lower (especially since the main building lost some pallets in 9.3.0 and that change seems to have stuck around) and a few of the filler loops that were too weak in 9.3.0 got-rebuffed a bit.
- Red Forest is almost good, I think this loop should be a tiny bit longer on the right side (just extend the wall out a little bit further to the right, not very much though, maybe slightly less than the width of a locker):
- This is a really small nitpick for Yamaoka Estate, but I'd really like the rock on the right side here to be ever so slightly bigger:
- I did also get this setup on Sanctum of Wrath when testing (and got another one with the shack too when reloading the map that was about just as strong), this has historically been an issue on this map but try to limit stuff like this, this is a pretty strong survivor setup with pallet directly into window into strong pallet. If possible, try to prevent maze tiles from facing in such a way that they connect directly into other strong nearby tiles such as this one especially when they are this close together.
- Mount Ormond Resort still has some weak fillers, however the number of pallets still seems very high on this map and this map has historically been survivor sided, so I don't think they should be buffed unless the number of pallets gets lowered a bit.
- This wasn't in the patch notes, but Midwich had the number of pallets reduced and is now randomly spawning deadzones in certain rooms that used to always have pallets, and you usually can't even tell it's a deadzone until you run into the room (unless you have Windows). I really don't understand why this was done and I'm not a fan of this at all, this map did not need any nerfs and this should be reverted. For example this pallet didn't spawn and the next classroom in front of me also had nothing (and it wasn't the one with the desks and chairs that never has a pallet), but overall it seems fairly random which pallets don't appear, I've reloaded the map several times and always got different pallets that were missing (eg. one time the bathroom pallet was missing, another time the hallway pallet by the stairs was gone). Since this wasn't in the patch notes I'm hoping maybe it's not intentional but I still want to bring it up since it is related.
But yeah, other than Midwich and a few of the things I commented on above, I mostly liked what I saw today and these maps are definitely in a better spot than they were in 9.2.0 and 9.3.0.
8 -
Not sure if this was unfortunate RNG or not, but I just had a match on Rotten Fields where only 2 pallets and a harvester spawned on the entire top half of the map beyond shack. It was pretty barren. I unfortunately wasn't able to grab a screenshot before the match ended.
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W changes on the maps I was on. The short crappy unsafe loops are gone.
0 -
Seems fine from what I've seen so far
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It is better in the most part.
I like the mix of variables of the filler pallets. Some are good some are trash but thats okay since they shouldn´t be as strong as gyms.
The only thing I disagree with is the swamp. Don´t get me wrong it is great that we get m more pallets there but… shouldn´t this map get an update first before it gets new pallets? I am afraid if we balance this map and get a rework this will get another "Now this map has become even more X sided"
1 -
Oh man, now we HAVE to TAKE THE L :D
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I believe that farm fillers should become stronger overall.
Didn't have much more time for further testing.
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So, I promised to post my take on the updates yesterday, but I got sidetracked a lot.
Anyways, this is my takeaway after some testing has been done.
Note: Using Ghoul for traversal speed, and a normal height perspective.Ormond Lake Mine:
This map has seen relatively minor changes when it comes to loops, but the ones that has been changed, like the tunnel loop near shack has been lengthened, which is a good thing, as this loop was quite horrendous before 9.3.2
I have also noticed a better chance of double-pallet fillers spawning in the front of main again, instead of the fenced off tiles with a single pallet.
Overall, I think this map is closer to the state it was in before the first pallet density update.
Mt. Ormond Resort
Overall, much better filler types, where trees spawn next to the rocks, slightly lengthening these fillers.
The spacing could be better, as there are quite big gaps in between fillers, especially in the front/back areas of the lodge.Yamaoka Estate
Sanctum of Wrath
Better fillers overall, since the rocks now spawn an additional tree to lengthen the side of the loop a little.
Spacing between pallets seems a little erratic still, where some areas can be quite dense, like the one example above.
Meanwhile, other areas are more lacking when it comes to resources.
Family Residence
Better spacing between tiles, for sure, and the fillers are decently good now.
I liked this one in particular, where a large tree is used to make up the longer side of the filler.
Pretty nice potential to use for mind games, with that huge LoS blocker.
Overall, Family Residence is in a MUCH better state now.Greenville Square
There are still a ton of double-pallet fillers on this map. But the spacing is fine, and it feels more like how it used to be before the density update.
The picnic table filler seems to have gotten a longer rock formation behind it, and definitely feels better to play now.
This area, on the side of main where the parking lot is located has a lot of untapped potential, and I am curious to why it hasn't been utilized better.
Backwater Swamp
The edge-fillers has gotten significantly stronger, with the addition of rocks next to the trees.
The "lonely pallet" on Grim Pantry finally got accompanied by a tree.
The docks are a lot better, and safer to loop now, where you are no longer guaranteed to get hit if you vault one of the windows. This applies to both dock variants.
The middle part of "The Pale Rose" seems a little inconsistent in terms of fillers, where you can have back to back spawns of two strong loops chained together into a tree filler or the docks.
Overall, the Swamp needs a bit more work, and should definitely have reduced RNG when it comes to tile generation.
Red Forest
Temple of Purgation
An interesting wall setup next to one of the corners of the temple.
Tree fillers has a bit more "meat" to them now, in the form of smaller bushes. A most welcome change from the naked trees in the 9.3.0 iteration.
The longer filler "walls" are back.
Overall it seems a lot better than it did in 9.3.0, where every filler was god awful on this map.
Mother's Dwelling is also a bit better. I noticed one long-log that spawned when I loaded up that map. Other than that, the tiles seemed fine, and very well spaced.
Crotus Prenn - Disturbed Ward.
This looks a lot better than the previous iteration, where the walls was too short.
You can still mindgame just fine here, it is just a little harder, and more a true 50/50 again.
Overall, spacing between tiles seems fine and it is perfectly serviceable for survivors. With the main building being significantly reduced in strength, I think this map has become one of the better balanced ones in the game right now.
I did not test Father Campbell's Chapel, but I take it that it is quite similar in terms of fillers.
Autohaven Wreckers
Note: I only tested on Wrecker's Yard, since most of the fillers apply to every map variant.
The tree fillers are back. Those rocks felt a little naked without them.
Edge-fillers seems a little weak, but I guess they are serviceable enough in order to buy enough time to get to other tiles in a pinch.
These tire-fillers are a little too short still, and could very well use an extra pile of tires on the left hand side.
These straight long-walled loops are finally back again.
Also, poor Sable!MacMillan Estate
Tested on the Coal Tower map, since most fillers apply to all variants.
Trees have been re-added to the rock loops, making them slightly safer to mindgame on.
The spacing between loops is pretty decent.
The middle loop is back to normal again, with a long and a short side.
Decent spacing between pallet fillers and window tiles
The classic MacMillan filler is back again.
Some tile generation is still a bit erratic, and can spawn long chains of loops.
Overall, it feels closer to the pre-density version.
Final thoughts:
Overall, this hotfix update made the fillers more healthy, and closer to 50/50's, but then again, the RNG generation of tiles is still pretty erratic, especially on some maps, where it can generate deadzones in some areas, and long loop chains in other areas.
It would be much better to remove the procedural tile generation altogether, and have a static setup of tiles. However, more variants of the same maps could be added to at least have some randomness present.
This way, you can craft maps that are well thought out, and much more balanced for both sides to play on.5 -
this loop spawns in cornera and next to an exit gate and a variation of it spawns next to big boat. its a broken structure in general. imo the log needs to be shortened to it can be a 50/50
-2 -
I liked it when there were more pallets, my Wraith was even stronger than before because of it 😆
2 -
I think it's okay as far as I can tell, but I haven't played every changed map so I can't be fully sure.
0 -
Unsure why the decision to nerf Midwich, an already super killer-sided map, was made:
A lot of pallets are nerfed heavily or straight up missing entirely. There were zero pallets in the courtyard in this game apart from the Clock Tower.
16 -
Also this specific pallet being removed from the Pizzeria makes the entire back end of the building a complete deadzone:
12 -
They need to work more on the playable quality of the maps; nobody asked for such drastic changes as Crotus Prenn, where they removed all the pallets from the first floor of the main building, and the map is now much smaller than before.
8 -
I don't disagree but as a killer player I did find it funny as I 4k'd playing pig with no perks or addons 😄
-1 -
Am I the only one who finds it odd that there was no pallet in this entire tile? Or am I blind and just didn't see it? This was like a tunneler's dream…
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I think they've weakened too many loops with the latest updates, they should try to balance it for both sides.
2 -
How can killer that is very higly effected by pallets (less with breaking addons but still must play around them) stronger when there is more of them? Wraith can bodyblock but more pallets mean more options so survivors that are blind and know usong their surraundings in for of other objects can make wraiths 1 second of 150% of speed way shorter can still outplay the wraiths block and get to other pallet because there is more of them, other thing is at the end of the day wraith plays mostly as m1 killer and can use hit power to gain easy hits only if he sneaks up on survivors or if he. body blocks the pallet or window that coul that survivor use to outplay his attack. He can use his power in chase but its not that good and only he can do is create like 50/50 where he more likely just is trying to 99 cloak and force pallet down or bait survivor into thinking it will be another fake uncloak but the fully uncloak and get that m1 or pallet at worst but his power has only two addons that help him break pallets faster and short speed boost that can max help him get hit on very unsafe loops or maybe mind game hit on unsafe loop (these are rare and survivor must make mistake by staing at that loop or having slow reaction or doesnt know where some closer loop is or what check spot is because even when wraith is fast for like nearly covering 8 meters in 1 second he still is way slower around loops due to hom having bigger and thicker character model compare to survivor so his effectivenes is way smaller than in open where he needs to bodyblock for guarantee hit most of times).
I cant understand how having more pallets make wraith stronger its like saying more los blockers make huntress or billy stronger (meaning more objects and random clutter that can block their powers and makes them worse than open area).
-2 -
Shattered Square is way over-tuned since the v3 update. I think I counted 8 safe fillers in addition to the conventional tiles. Way too many
-6 -
Apparently it's every indoor map. Hawkins and Lerys are also just flat out missing like half their pallets.
3 -
Midwich Elementary School:
Certain pallets that should be spawning are not spawning. I'm assuming this is a bug, but it does need to be addressed as it ruins the balance of a pretty good killer favored map. It does not need more deadzones. I also noticed that the tiles in the courtyard seem to be weaker? I've only tested this map twice but both times courtyard spawned no pallets (not counting clock tower which seems unchanged), and in the last screenshot ALL 3 courtyard tiles had no window or pallet (see zanshin tactics) which shouldn't happen.
10 -
At 19 seconds I can see broken pallet debris.
1 -
I think I see it now, barely…
1 -
wow, good catch… 2 planks and I had to zoom in and trace them to see it 😂
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For me to answer this question you're going to have to be willing to accept that what I am telling you is true.
Most survivors at any skill level, and I swear you this, refuse to predrop pallets against a Wraith, for this reason I rarely 99 an uncloak, I prefer to fully uncloak while standing still and swinging through the pallet during a 50/50. Doing this always gets me a hit at least like 4-6 times a game. This is one reason but for many reasons Wraith is what I call a pallet eater, it is so easy and quick to force surivors to either give you a pallet or take a hit for it.
I have had games where even on the game I've removed like every pallet on the map as Wraith.
My current Wraith build is Brutal, Enduring, Spirit Fury and Hubris. You would not believe how easy and quick it is to gain spirit fury and to trigger hubris on people. My addons also are always Swift Hunt for uncloak speed and either Windstorm for movement speed or Blind Warrior for Sloppy Butcher.
I won't fully go into it, but Shadow Dance is an overrated and unnecessary addon and brutal is just a better all around replacement.
Because of the pallet density changes, it allowed me with this build to trigger spirit fury on people so much my games went like wildfire. I had one match where i downed 3 people in a row with hubris and spirit fury because they gave me so many pallets i just left some for future spirit fury.
If you want further evidence of just how effective this build was during the height of pallet density, I went on a 27 game win streak without relying on slugging, camping or tunneling using this build.
Hope that provides a sufficient explanation.1 -
I hate this new jungle gym. The window is so bad and the killer hits you most times no matter what you do.
0 -
Some maps there is 30 pallets.
On others like coldwind there is close to 8.
So either they reverted entirely or i cant tell the difference anymore
-1 -
If you have whole build around pallets then I believe you but wraith is pretty easy to outplay at pallets just if survivor has pallet he must wait and mostly 99 works for pallet being put down, smart survivors that know you 99 or know the loop isnt that short and that they can still run it and make it to pallet even if you uncloak due to their smallet hitbox when hugging the loop then they will counter you and then again wraith is just m1 with some good stealth that still isnt great and can be seen by survivors in open maps (they can see your siulet like wet predator from movie and they can hear you when you are close) and solid mobility but calling him stronger with more pallets I wouldnt say its true (if you doesnt have whole build dedicated to dealing with pallets and maybe windows then he is peretty highly effected by them way more then xeno,nemesis,springtrap,doctor and maybe more than bubba) he is solid with addons (without breaking speed or uncloak speed or speed addons he is just below b-tier and requires perfect play against decent survivors due to having no basekit tool to deal with pallets and windows, less chance for pulling bodyblocks and giving survivor more time and distance to reach safety when he is uncloaking).
-1 -
Some of what you say is true, the thing with Wraith is, when it comes to high level play, its a lot about predicting, strategy and outmaneuvering survivors, if they aren't giving free hits or pallet drops, than you can on some loops uncloak one side and fully swing around to the other. Ppl really underestimate just how fast and how far his uncloak lunge can get you. I don't even need bam with him anymore cause I know how to bodyblock or run people down with my uncloak lunge. Good survivors will try and outplay you so what you need to do is outthink them, which is what I like about Wraith cause I have a strategic mindset when it comes to DBD and Wraith lets me really flex it.
3 -
That's me with just about every pallet or window on any map. I don't know if it's a skill issue, ping issue, or what. I tend to avoid windows entirely because I know the Killer would get me before I reach it anyway. And they usually do.
0 -
Is it me or their RNG system just broke completely
For real, it’s time to make static spawns…
0 -
I've hated it too, ever since they implemented it. It's just bad
0 -
I played a custom game on Midwich Primary and Hawkins Lab. It's true they removed a lot of pallets and left a lot of dead zones on the map. I hope it's a mistake and that they don't keep weakening maps that were already on the killer's side.
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