http://dbd.game/killswitch
Ban Escalation Rework
After losing UndeddJester for a second time, and being reminded of how many great community members we've lost over the years, thanks to people constantly digging up necro-threads. It's made me think about the ban escalation system.
The four strike rule is nice and simple, but it lacks nuance. Being able to skips steps is fine, as some things warrant an immediate ban. Forum users who visit at the weekends will understand this pretty well. But considering how easy it is to get a warning, let's be real, you don't have to be that rude to get a strike, the system doesn't work well when people have been here for years.
Everyone will have less than perfect responses sometimes when encountering the huge amount of aggressive, disrespectful posts that people often write. Should you get baited? No. But someone who greatly contributes to the community should not be thrown away over a trivial social faux pas. I don't know what Undedd was banned for, but I don't believe for a moment it was for saying anything truly awful. It would be completely out of character for them to do so. So I feel safe assuming it was just some minor infraction. Or nothing at all. Mods do sometimes make mistakes when observing conversations.
So what I propose is a system where infractions that are not worthy of an immediate ban, decay over time. Similar to how DC penalties work in game. This seems like a more nuanced, and human way of handling the community. The worst offenders will still get banned, and we won't lose any more long standing community members, because they responded slightly poorly a total of four times over ten years.
UndeddJester was quite frankly the best our community had to offer. Their contributions will be sorely missed.
Comments
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I mean, it would help if mods did not consider this to be a kindergarden.
I had warning for thing that was not offensive in any way, but you can get strike for as I was told "things that do not contribute to the discussion specifically for bait or other non-constructive purposes."
Which amused me a lot...But yeah 4 strikes for people with thousands of comments don't really make sense.
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I don't get why you can get suspended for a week of you tag a moderator to get a official statement necessary to continue a constructive discussion.
Yes I know, that they don't want to be tagged all the time and probably have enough messages to deal with. However, isn't it the job of a moderator to, you know..., moderate a discussion and do support it instead of shutting it down because one person had the audacity to ask for clarification?
I didn't get it back then and still don't understand it now.
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so many old members are gone because of this lol im on my last warning too
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DC penalty can be just adjusted:
→ 24 timer before reset
→ 1 dc allowed before penalizing
→ 2 dc = penalty of 15mins and 15mins for every other dc
On top of that I would adjust some abandon features:
→ Survivors can abandon when left in dying state for more than 100s = lost
→ Survivors can abandon if there is at least one survivor dead and no gen repaired = lost
→ Survivors can abandon if the gate is powered for more than 5min and not open = draw
→ Killer can abandon once gates are open = lost
→ Killer can abandon if no generator is repaired for more than 5 consecutive minutes = lost
→ Killer can abandon if he gets 4 downs without hooking anyone = lost
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Its not a kindergarden, its a work environment. And the moderators keep it as such.
I don't get why you can get suspended for a week of you tag a moderator to get a official statement necessary to continue a constructive discussion.
Its in the rules, that is why.
Imagine being tagged by every person who thinks what they are doing something important, that would be really annoying.
Also this thread breaks a few rules too by talking about a specific person's ban.
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Well, then I have to ask, why are we here?
Sometimes, people try to actively solve issues that have been in the game for years. And sometimes, discussing these issues requires official statements. How do we get them? Who do we ask if not these people?
I understand not responding to every person that tags, but maybe it would be great to first look at the post they have been tagged in, look at the context and then decide on further steps, instead of immediately shutting something down that could have offered contructive input.
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Sometimes, people try to actively solve issues that have been in the game for years. And sometimes, discussing these issues requires official statements. How do we get them? Who do we ask if not these people?
You cant rely on an answer, instead you kind of have to think about what BHVR might be going for than then argue for it.
Even so questions where you need internal game knowledge to be constructive is most likely far far deeper than BHVR would easily like to change things, but you can still express your distaste for how things work and plea for BHVR to make them better without internal knowledge.I understand not responding to every person that tags, but maybe it would be great to first look at the post they have been tagged in, look at the context and then decide on further steps.
Yeah, except that would cloud up any inbox. Allowing free range on tagging developers would just escellate the problem.
Everyone here thinks their ideas are important and every idea could be improved by internal knowledge. Yet the developers are not here to strengthen your ideas, but to listen to them.They will strengthen your ideas themselves during the development cycle if they decide to put it into production.
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How often do you see mods being tagged here?
Personally, I didnt even know that it was against the rules, when I did it (with good intentions). Most people dont tag mods in general. I personally dont think that their inbox would suddenly flood with messages any more than they do right now.
Also, I do personally think, that these forums should also encourage communication with people in contact with the developement team and not actively discourage it. They actively want our feedbackk and opinions but never interact with us other than when it comes to a ban.
Last time I was in communication with a mod about a long standing in-game issue, I got a stereotypical answer that I could swear was automated / copy pasted.
This is not what I would personally consider a healthy environment for constructive criticism and discussion. Im personally not a fan of this kind of treatment. If you are, then thats good for you. Agree to disagree.
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its a work environment
This is not work, this is public forum.
And moderators are simply way too trigger happy even if you consider this "work environment".
I have seen warnings for really pathetic reasons and UndeddJester's case is one of those.
I am fine with moderating offensive language, but bans for comment not being constructive enough is just hilarious.6 -
How often do you see mods being tagged here?
It happens not so often these days, but in the past like almost every day.
I do personally think, that these forums should also encourage communication with people in contact with the developement team and not actively discourage it.
You try developing a game with everyone thinking they can Tag you to get your attention, see how useful that is for you.
Otherwise, we accept how BHVR wants to do it.This is not work, this is public forum.
A public forum can also be a work environment.
I am fine with moderating offensive language, but bans for comment not being constructive enough is just hilarious.
unconstructive criticism is useless to the development team and it attracts the same attitude in more posts if it isnt squashed.
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Since when forum became a work environment? It can’t be in any case. Community can’t be directly related to working on project, this forum also not a direct speech platform because you don't receive their feedback, it’s one sided. No reason trying to make a parasocial mess here thinking any of us here involved in work process or potentially can be. We are players first of all
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I would stress the fact, that old accounts (AKA people that likely knows the game the best) are at real disadvantage.
I think it would make sense to scratch off say 1 warning per year. Some infractions are not intentional - I myself had one where I wrote thing that absolutely could be interpreted as an insult (for which I got deserved warning), but that wasn't my intention in any way. There just was an ambiguity in understanding the meaning behind the message.
The same thing could be said about last @PetTheDoggo's post, where "I feel bad for you" could be interpreted in an offensive way. Do I think it warrants banning him? Absolutely not. But mistakes do happen from time to time - we are human after all. And if it's rare enough, then it should probably not warrant a permanent ban.
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I'm not saying its advertised as such, but everything on the rules list makes this a work environment.
Not for us, we are not the workers. But BHVR's developers ARE and this is their forum so least we can do as guests is follow the work etiquette and be respectful, clear and constructive so we dont waste their valuable time.Honestly it just makes good sense to me, this has nothing to do with parasocial relationships and more to do with time.
Post edited by Balrog on-1 -
community managers
sure, community managers. Not developers. Those get usually either none, or filtered version.
In General Discussion, perhaps not.
Well, then we got into posts not being in correct section. If whole post has 0 feedback value, I fail to see why I should even try to be constructive.
Main issue here this is highly subjective and resulted in many questionable bans on this forum. There is no standard and if they tried to hold standard some of mods made here, this place would be empty.
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I think it would make sense to scratch off say 1 warning per year
Would make more sense for this to be based on number of comments, no?
like 500 or something like that1 -
I agree. A while ago I made a comment in the forum feedback section about this topic, because Devil and some others got banned. I suggested a deescalation process to the current system, where you gain back lives after a long period of good behavior. Sadly no one responded.
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I'm not saying its advertised as such, but everything on the rules list makes this a work environment.
Just because there are rules somewhere, doesn’t make it a work environment.
Even in your so called kindergarten there are rules children have to follow. This is simply a forum, a social site. And forums are pretty specific space already because they don’t have automised moderation and there are human factor community can ask to adjust if they feel it’s confusing and misleading to unfair censorship
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People will just flood with meaningless messages aka 1+1=2 to help themselves
Simply, they need more clear rules that provides a proper frame. It’s hard to make difference between discussion, tribalistic post, and personal encounter, so everything can be swiped to last one and that’s what majority complain about.
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People will just flood with meaningless messages aka 1+1=2 to help themselves
Sounds as a good reason for perma ban to me…
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I think that's sound alternative to time passed. More posts = more chances to screw up (and accelerate your actual ban). Keeping in mind that spamming is also an offense (or at least it should be), this IMO would work just as well.
On the other hand, time-based de-escalation would be fine too in my opinion.
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And this is bad. Because it's hard to differ person just sharing opinion and simply comment farming. So again, people will complain on ban hammer, nothing will really change
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Hey all!
I understand the frustration and upset here, we will look at our moderation escalation (our rules will not be changing), to allow for a "decay" period. It's not something that's in-built into the forum structure - as you know we use a Hosting service and we are limited to what they provide. But we can certainly ensure it's part of our manual review when there's specific rule breaks.
I will close this thread now so that nobody else gets into the territory of breaking our forum rules however, we will maintain these rules and we stand by them. It's the escalation that we will look into and managing things on a more individual case by case basis.
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