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MoM Discussion with a solution
After some thinking, y'all changed my mind and enough to say that the perk needs more counter play. I feel like there's isn't enough counter play to PREVENT the perk from activating so I'll rework the perk for y'all while keeping the same mechanics. Survivors, please bare with me and help me improve the idea even more with some feedback.
METTLE OF MAN:
Evil has a way of always finding you. Everytime the killer hooks a survivor, your aura is revealed to the killer for 10/7/5 seconds and you'll suffer from the exposed status effect for 30 seconds. If you're downed while exposed from Mettle of Man, the perk will deactivate for the remainder of the trial. However, if upon your next hook will send you to the sacrifice phase, Mettle of Man will grant you immunity for the next attack that would put you into the dying state.
-Upon successfully taking a hit while immune, you'll become the new obsession.
-The Killer can only be obsessed with one Survivor at a time.
HOW IS THIS REWORK BETTER?
Firstly, there is a risk to the survivor using it since if they go down while exposed, they lose a perk slot and continue the trial at a disadvantage of a hook state. If the survivor is skilled, they can loop/out mind game you for 30 seconds or stealth it out by hiding in a locker. Even if they hide while exposed, they aren't doing generators for 30 seconds so it benefits the killer everytime they hook someone.
Secondly, the perk solves another problem for survivors: Farming and tunneling. If you're unhooked and you're on your sacrifice hook, the perk will soak up a hit and give you time to run away.
Finally, the obsession switching mechanics helps the killer if they have obsession perks. This would be the penalty after using the perk, I'll further explain below.
IF THE KILLER HAS...
Dying Light: You're on sacrifice hook and the killer is just one chase away from getting it to active.
Save The Best For Last: If the killer has 8 tokens, they will only lose 2 to down you and lock their tokens at 6, which is a 30% cool-down on their successful attacks. Not bad.
Remember Me: Same as Dying Light, they are just one chase away from sacrificing the obsession and preventing them from opening the gates. Additionally, they get a free token towards the exit gates' opening time.
Rancor: If the generators are completed, you can mori the survivor without risking DS if they are farmed.
Play With Your Food: No benefit, the perk needs a rework anyways.
Dark Devotion: No benefit besides having the dying survivor emitting a terror radius.
Any feedback is appreciated, if it's civilized and constructive.
Comments
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High risk high reward. I support it.
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The perk is out there since what, 2 days now?
Maybe i get the wrong suvivors or anything, but i have seen it like three times or so? It was annoying but nothing to crazy.
I mean i support your effort and all, but shoudnt we wait at least 2 weeks or so?
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@Nickenzie Its still strong but that's not inherently bad. It's when things are strong and theres no counterplay that things get troublesome.
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Y'know, I'd say this reads pretty well, and I say that as pretty much exclusively a killer. I'd love to be able to test it in play, but obviously that's not possible.
I'd say 10 seconds of aura is kinda high, since a killer can do a lot with that much lead time. Three seconds of aura reading is a lot, so 10 would be pretty crippling. Probably better to shrink that to 7/6/5 or something like that. Probably would need to be pushed lower in the end, like 5/4/3, considering how different the pressure is that killers can exert in that time, but that seems a good starting point.
You could probably also remove the ability to disable the perk before you see the benefit to it. That seems a bit punishing, honestly. Perhaps to offset it, make it trigger on the struggle phase instead, and then disable after that. This requires the killer to have already done something that match, but also doesn't make it another perk that can completely kneecap the killer by triggering right at the beginning or end of the match, unless something went wrong on either side.
Interesting idea to switch obsessions with triggering, and fits the apparent flavor of the perk. If they already have it for DS, it doesn't seem terrible to test it on more perks besides that, especially since that change hasn't been as bad as I thought it might. Only thing to consider may be to add perks to killers that influence obessions if more of them start popping up, but that would be something to consider later.
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I'd actually be fine with this change and I think it would be balanced. It seems like an actual fair trade off. I gave it a vote up.
On a side note: I still think the whole switching obsessions is meaningless. There's no real downsides to being the obsession in "almost" all situations. There are only small fringe situations where being the obsession is actually bad and even a few where it's good.
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So it would go from a variant on old DS to a variant on new DS basically
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Basically. ❤
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Yeah, MoM as it stands needs to die, fast.
It basically takes everything they worked towards with changing DS and flushes it down the toilet. Worse, at least DS had dribbling, there is no counterplay to "just don't hit them ever!"
My biggest issue by far is that the killers who DON'T need longer chases the most (Pig, Doctor, etc) the M1s, are the ones who basically CANNOT avoid triggering the perk at all, and the ones already sitting in the top tiers like Hillbilly and Huntress ignore the perk entirely.
I don't know who thought this perk sounded remotely balanced. I don't know who thought this nonsense should slip into the game WITHOUT A PTB. All I know is this should never have made it to the live build.
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Just imagine having Dying Light and someone who's about to be sacrificed becomes your obsession. The same applies to Remember me and you can get one more stack before they are downed. Becoming the obsession when you're about to be sacrificed can play into the killer's hands.
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I think the Obsession should stay the same person although then you'd have the issue of not knowing who has DS. But you had the problem before with old DS as well and if they fix Enduring to be ignored and just make it so stun timer is 2.28 seconds across both it'd be fine.
Fml forgot to add that the only advantage to the Obsession is if you've got a Mori, Rancor, STBFL or another perk of that type. But that's also highly situational and once the hubbub dies down people will niche run this after it gets tweaked.
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This is an awful idea. Its an anti tunnelling perk.
Instead you want the survivor to be exposed each time the killer hooks someone else? And lose the perk if they go down exposed? That's crazy.
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It isn't an anti tunnel perk. That has never been said.
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Well to have it potentially be useful the killer would have to be running an obsession perk and "most" of the killer obsession perks are trash or mediocre. Yeah Dying Lying could activate in your favor but then another DS could activate and you just lost it as easily as you got it. Probably not many gens left by that point either. Yeah you could just not "tunnel" but that goes back to my core issue with DS in that isn't only activating against "tunnelers".
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As always the problem is with SWF.
1 survivor running it in a group of randos? no problem.
4 guys running BT/DS, DH, MoM and Adrenaline in a co-ordinated group with chasers, genners and altruists all running items is an absolute nightmare for any killer to deal with.
Nurse and Billy are the only two that have any chance of dealing with it every other killer is just at the Mercy of them unless they resort to camping.
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Horrible. That would make the perk useless and more of a detriment. I can get downed immediately for maybe the perk becoming useful later? Not worth it, MoM is fine as it is.
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So, I just had an even easier potential fix for MoM. Lower the number of hits required to two, but make the perk reset if someone else gets hooked before it goes off. This turns it into a pure anti-tunneling perk, and doesn't take too much adjustment, and should feel far less unfair. It's essentially the self-triggered Borrowed Time that survivors have been begging for basically forever.
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Nope, you can hide in a locker or behind a generator for 10/7/5 seconds and the exposed status effect lasts for only 30 seconds. You can easily loop or stealth the killer for that long and if you get caught within that 30 second period, that means you failed at stealth and chase to get downed. Fair trade off to become invincible on your final hook and let's not forget that my version doesn't have the aura reading on it as well.
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So devs just created a perk that screwed over the low tier killers even more than they already are. Smart!
If your killer doesn't have a special attack, you can't avoid triggering MoM unless you use one shot perks. And the downside to MoM hardly ever comes into play because survivors just stay injured until Adrenaline kicks in or just 99% heal to prevent their aura from showing.
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