Need a killer perk that specifically counters Dead Hard
Dead Hard is still the best exhaustion perk with at least 60% of survivors running it in high MMR (based on my match history). I don't think Dead Hard needs a nerf, but I think there should be more perk options to counter it. The current anti-exhaustion perk options aren't good enough. Languid Touch is the best counter currently, but it's pretty much complete RNG with crows. We need a perk that specifically counters Dead Hard. I don't care if it's useless against every other exhaustion perk. In fact, it should be to balance it. Considering we already have Lightborne that hard counters Flashlights, a similar perk seems reasonable.
As a counter to Dead Hard, I've just been hard slugging survivors with Twins so they never get the perk. This seems to be the best counter currently. I'm just going to keep playing Twins until BHVR adds more viable counters.
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Languid RNG really isn't bad at all. Survivors never avoid crows, and there's so many
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Genetic Limits, it causes Exhaustion whenever you hit a survivor with a basic attack.
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Ah yes, one of the worst perks in the game. You aren't getting a hit within 8 seconds of injuring a survivor unless they're terrible. Languid Touch straight up outclasses it.
Edit: I'll admit that I didn't consider that but mainly because I was playing killers where Genetic Limits is mostly useless, e.g. Plague and Bubba. An anti-DH perk is still needed. Like DH just completely shutdowns Bubba's power. Survivors just stay injured and it's a free escape against his power.
Post edited by whirlwind931123 on-5 -
Languid touch, blood echo, mindbreaker, genetic limits, overwhelming presence… so many options to counter exhaustion perks.
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You can try a mix of Genetic Limits and Languid Touch. It covers the bases nicely.
But, the best way to counter DH is not Exhaustion, but Deep Wound. The issue is that it is completely power dependant, meaning you need Deathslinger, Legion, Houndmaster or Kaneki.
Funnily enough, I did come up with a perk that actually fully counters DH some time ago:
Punishment
Whenever you injure a survivor with a Quick Attack, they also become Deep Wounded.
You recover from Quick Attacks 40/30/20% slower.
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Many options ≠good options. Out of all those perks, how many are actually effective at countering Dead Hard?
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Genetic Limits is useless. It's one of the worst perks in the game. You aren't getting a hit within 8 seconds of injuring a survivor unless they're terrible, in which case they probably aren't running Dead Hard anyway.
Edit: I'll admit that I didn't consider that but mainly because I was playing killers where Genetic Limits is mostly useless, e.g. Plague and Bubba. An anti-DH perk is still needed. Like DH just completely shutdowns Bubba's power. Survivors just stay injured and it's a free escape against his power.
Post edited by whirlwind931123 on-5 -
See the part in the middle?
"Survivors already suffering from Deep Wound cannot be protected by Endurance"
You cannot outlast Deep Wound, only mend it. Which is even harder than walking off Exhausted.
So, imo, the best way to counter DH, is through Deep Wound.
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Yes. I know Deep Wound prevents it from being used, but BHVR 100% isn't making a Deep Wound perk to counter Dead Hard since Deep Wound also serves as stall.
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Depends on situation, both genetic limits and languid touch fully counters exhaustion perks, mindbreaker is more of disturbing at gens. But there are also many anti exhaustion add ons.
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Edit: I'll admit that misinterpreted Genetic Limits but mainly because I was playing killers where Genetic Limits is mostly useless, e.g. Plague and Bubba. An anti-DH perk is still needed. Like DH just completely shutdowns Bubba's power. Survivors just stay injured and it's a free escape against his power.
Languid Touch is fully RNG and the only good counter for Dead Hard currently, as mentioned in hte post.
Mindbreaker is useless for countering Dead Hard. It only blocks them for 5 seconds after getting off the gen. It's extremely unlikely to counter Dead Hard in this period.
Post edited by whirlwind931123 on-5 -
Dead Hard isnt the best exhaustion perk. Sprint Burst has been, and always will be, the best exhaustion perk.
The main reason why DH is being ran? Just look at all those players and see the most common perk next to DH. It's DS. Which is because tunnelling is so common.
Once tunnelling becomes less common, DH will become less common. Will it completely vanish? No, but once tunnelling will vanish, Overcome is likely to reappear more often. Overcome isnt used a lot anymore because of tunnelling too.
As for the best exhaustion perk right now? It's Lithe, no question. It puts an obstacle between you and the killer, then gives you a 3 second haste. Sprintburst can do the same if you have it on 99.9% recovery (fast vaulting isnt running, so it recovers exhaustion, with 99.9% recovery, you can vault and trigger Sprintburst directly after the animation finishes), but the main problem with Sprintburst right now is Kaneki.4 -
You keep talking about "getting a hit within 8 seconds", why?
You do realize Exhaustion doesn't go away while a survivor is running right?
It's very easy to get value out of Genetic Limits & the fact that you're arguing with people, & claiming that it's one of the worst perks in the game (it's not) leads me to believe you don't actually play this game enough to understand what you're even complaining about.
Everybody here has gone out of their way to give you good advice & brainstorm strategies for you, please be more considerate.
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Best exhaustion perk is undoubtedly DH. Whenever I see a sweat squad, it's always 3-4 DH + 3-4 DS. It all ties together. They rush gens hard, so you need to tunnel someone out to slow the game down, so they run DH + DS to prevent this. Anyway, I don't even think DH is that great of an anti-tunnel perk since if the killer is tunneling, they'll return to hook and hit the survivor they will tunnel causing them to get Deep Wound, which would prevent Dead Hard. Also, if DH is being used as an anti tunnel tool, it should have a time limit so that killers that aren't tunnelling aren't punished for it.
I think DH is just a great standalone perk. M1 killers generally need to swing early to reach them before the pallet or window and DH is a extra health state. DH is also still great against most killer's powers too, e.g. Bubba, Nurse, and Blight.
You're also contradicting yourself. If Lithe and SB are better, why aren't they running it over Dead Hard? The only reason they would use DH over Lithe and SB is if it was better.
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I'll admit that I didn't consider that but mainly because I was playing killers where Genetic Limits is mostly useless, e.g. Plague and Bubba. An anti-DH perk is still needed. Like DH just completely shutdowns Bubba's power. Survivors just stay injured and it's a free escape against his power.
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If you're letting a survivor walk away from you then yes, though in what world is a survivor walking away from you after being hit??? lol
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I'm sure Bubba can hit three times through the speed boost.
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Not unless you're running the Iri that refreshes the duration on hit. Usually, you're using the Chainsaw in a loop and you get the hit in the last 0.5 seconds.
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They run it, because tunnel meta. Genrushing isnt that common, and hard gen rushing is rare if you create any form of pressure. time, where DH is "only" used 14% of the time. BECAUSE Lithe puts an obstacle between you and the killer.
In fact, if you added 20 second extra cooldown to SB and added a functionality to press E whenever to activate Sprintburst, it would be SO so good that you wouldnt ever see another exhaustion perk inside the meta.
As for DH being an anti-tunnel tool, then it shouldnt be countered by deepwounds or exhaustion perks too and just work like Mettle of Man: Free healthstate, no downsides.0 -
I agree. It's different for every killer, but i find it a big problem as Chucky. At they very least killers that are affected by it like this deserve more potent exhaustion add-ons.
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I don't think dead hard is only strong because of tunelling.
It's strong for the reason it always has been strong. In terms of chase duration it's latest possible form of distance that can be granted. This makes the killer risk overcomitting or cut their losses. With Sprint Burst and Lithe, the risk is lower because they are used much earlier in the chase.
Lithe is an inbetween of Sprint Burst and Dead Hard. It's not as effective against top mobility killers, very strong against non mobility killers.
Dead Hard is good against every killer when it lands2 -
But Lithe still works if you're getting tunneled. There's no way you don't make it to a vault with the base kit endurance and speed boost off hook. The choice of DH over Lithe means DH is better. Also, still waiting on an answer to why they aren't running Off The Record + SB/Lithe. Off The Record is pretty much Dead Hard but without needing to press a button.
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You've shot down basically every exhaustion-causing perk presented in this thread, so I'll present an alternative: Exhaustion counting.
Have patience if you haven't seen an exhaustion out of a survivor yet.
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Sprint Burst and Lithe are used more that Dead Heard globally. It's just that DH (and DS) are used more commonly in that mythical high MMR area, which make up the smallest portion of the overall playerbase, which they do not primarily balance for.
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Wow there is no guarantee for DH user to prolong chase significantly, especially for solo queue survs. I'd like to see collision changes which make survivor bodies feel not like "walls" or "blocks" but real bodies which killer can "nudge in the side". Such collision like in other multiplayer games with your teammates. Like in CS:GO as I remember. And for DbD chose mid between complete "body block" and "body obstacle".
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I dont really consider DH to be that strong tho. I basically compare it to a pallet stun. That survivor basically gets a pallet stun that I could have avoided by considering their perks (if I didnt see any exhaustion perk yet, and I can only assume 2 perks at most, gotta bait the DH).
And Lithe is absolutely powerful against mobility killers, the obstacle matters:
Nurse? Needs to waste at least 1 blink just to get through and then another to close the gap.
Wesker? Needs to waste at least 1 bound usage to vault or use it to go around
Blight? Needs to vault/break and then use his ability to catch up
Spirit? Depends on her addons, but generally needs to waste about 25% of her power just to get around.
DH can fail against Nurse if there is the slightest bit of desync, where she hits you before she appears.
Against Blight it can be wasted too since he can go past you while lethal rushing to bait a DH and then quickly turn around.
So I would actually argue Lithe is stronger than DH against top mobility killers, and DH being stronger against low mobility killers as it baits them into committing, where most higher mmr low mobility killers are going to leave survivors who triggered Lithe after a vault, where DH baits them into maintaining a chase.0 -
The Withered Staff addon on The Lich causes exhausted when you hit survivors with the Orb. You can just orb survivors when you are in chase with them to counter dead hard. I've actually used it specifically with that in mind a few times.
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