Why Making the Blight 4.4m/s is a Bad Idea
Comments
-
Again, if it is such a small change that is basically not affecting Blight at all, why is this an issue?
Brand new blight players are not going to be a good crutch to use as a means to this end. Is there any other reason why this is a bad idea? I'd like to hear as many as I can, because currently, it still falls pretty flat imo.
Its because when nerfing a killer (or anything in literally any game) keeping the feel of a character while bringing down their strength is the most ideal scenario.I agree!. So this change will remove the feel of blight? I would think not. Such a small, almost unnoticeable change wouldn't have that kind of impact, at least I think? If a Blight main could pop in and explain why this would be a devastating change, would love to chew on it.
Sure 110% would definitely knock him down a little but mainly for inexperienced Blights which I think its pretty safe to say that nobody is complaining about.
Inexperienced players, imo, should not be a metric when trying to balance a killer who has been around as long as he has, is a top tier 'comp' killer, and considered 'advanced.' This last reason should be enough.
Thoughts?
0 -
What you mentioned about inexperienced players not being the metric of balance I whole heartedly agree. That's why in my suggestions I go after things that he's good at because that's where the problem lies. It would lower his mobility, make him easier to outplay and reward them more for making good plays. Nerfing him in these aspects and keeping him at 115% just means that in the areas where he's weakest he at least has something.
He can play a lot of tiles with his power currently and being 110% is simply not going to change that. What will make a difference (at least at the higher levels) are the times where he cant use his power due to the map. Things like Lerys or RPD for example, he can struggle a lot on these maps since it limits his power usage heavily. These are the only kinds of maps where lowering his movement speed will make a difference, and all that does is add to the problem of map dependency, which I think we can all agree that it is something we should strive to move away from.
1 -
What you mentioned about inexperienced players not being the metric of balance I whole heartedly agree.
Hell yeah! I was worried that if this couldn't be agreed upon, it'd be rocky going forward lol.
That's why in my suggestions I go after things that he's good at because that's where the problem lies.And then we disagree again, but I am curious how this plays out. I've been swayed many times by you and others in the past.
It would lower his mobility, make him easier to outplay and reward them more for making good plays.All of this sounds wonderful to be honest. Lowering his mobility is the only thing I wouldn't want. Making him easier to outplay would be a welcome change as it's pretty damn hard currently, seasoned vet or newbie. I dont think this change would affect this aspect more than needed (Needed is a choice word as Im at work and can't think sometimes lol. It's not accurate, as this isn't necessarily a 'needed' change.) Lastly, getting MORE reward for playing well doesn't really sound like a bad thing, ever?
Nerfing him in these aspects and keeping him at 115% just means that in the areas where he's weakest he at least has something.
So taking him to 4.4 will destroy all the things you just listed? I'll be blunt here: You're trying to sell to me that Blight, of all the other killers on the roster, will be hamstrung so much he'll need help? Specifically this: "areas where he's weakest he at least has something." I do not understand what this means, as he really doesn't have areas than he's helpless in. If a situation were to be explained, it would likely be a very niche, perfect planetary alignment cosmic event type stuff. But I could be wrong, and there are many, many situations where a 4.4m/s blight might be F tier. I suppose. Just can't fathom it honestly.He can play
a lotof tiles with his power currently and being 110% is simply not going to change that.So this change wouldn't affect this. We agree. +1 for going ahead with the nerf.
What will make a difference (at least at the higher levels) are the times where he cant use his power due to the map.This is now a map issue, not a Blight issue: everyone has bad maps and is likely by design. Good maps and bad maps should exist. Thoughts on this?
Things like Lerys or RPD for example, he can struggle a lot on these maps since it limits his power usage heavily. These are the only kinds of maps where lowering his movement speed will make a difference, and all that does is add to the problem of map dependency, which I think we can all agree that it is something we should strive to move away from.As does Huntress, Springtrap, Trickster, etc. Indoormaps, specifically, are a pain stake in the community. But I still think they need to exist. If all maps are balanced and just neutral all the time, variety disappears, even if you get different maps. Personal view I suppose, but worth noting imo.
Lastly, I agree about moving away from these map dependent designs. BHVR needs to step it up imo as a consumer. But Im not going to drop a change to a killer such as Blight because of 'Bad maps'. It would never be a rational, healthy reason imo. 4.4 m/s still seems like a mild change that wont affect killers while making survivors feel like they're getting some sort of deal. They aren't. 4.4 m/s isn't going to change hardly anything. So lets just do it and see what happens? Even a ptb would work, despite ptbs never working. Thoughts?
1 -
Thank you for providing alternate suggestions. So many people just criticize ideas without providing any of their own.
1 -
I don't think that him being 110% would hamstring him, to be completely honest if they were to reveal that he was 110% next patch its not like I would lose any sleep over it, its just I don't think its the right place to nerf him since it wouldn't make a meaningful impact. Lets use Trapper as an example, lets say they go ahead and give him a simple buff of making him 120%. Would it help? Absolutely, but he still has the same problems and weaknesses as before. Just the same as Blight where sure, lowering his base movement speed helps in some scenarios but its a lazy way of doing it and its not enough to make a meaningful impact.
As for maps I do believe having good and bad maps should be something avoided at all costs (Even for the killers you mentioned, in fact this is something that should apply to all killers. You can still have variation and consistency at the same time, and currently Blight does some what achieve that. That's why lowering his movement speed is just not the way of going about things since that's all you're really achieving.
2 -
Not just any killer, the Golden child of DBD is threated here so his cult deffends him.
Blight has huge part of enjoyers in killer and survivor player base and in devs lines too it seems (best addons and hug tech for two years into removing hug tech and reworking addons that they were still top tier addons and after another addon nerf time he still sits on his rightfull place and last killers that challanged him were released versions of ghoul and krasue but they were still weaker than top tier blight player).
Personaly I dont wanna see blight gutted but making him 110 will do few things first is it will require from the killer player to be better with using his power and he will naturaly be more dependent on his power like all slower speed killers are. Second is he will miss hard nerfs to his rushes becaues 110 killer needs good power just look at nurse she deserves best power because she is slower than survivors.
So making him 110 and maybe adding to remove two tokens if he breaks pallet like ghoul has (10 seconds cooldown is for his all 5 rushes basekit so its just 4 seconds after breaking the pallet thats not that bad on one of best killer powers in the entire game) this is maybe all he needs and I think he will still sit high probably at the same spot because blights tru power comes from his rushes and thats how top tier blights get downs with him in majority of cases with his rushes not m1 hits so good blights will still be very strong and hold him where he is now.
Speed addons shouldnt maybe exist on blight or remove one token form him so he has more speed but less charges or make them more basekit Idk but they are busted on him since his old school addons like alch ring that gave you all rushes or compound 33 that broke pallets and hindered survivors with short cooldown.
0 -
Understood. Completely agree with this, its not the best area for change. Do you feel things that need changed or addressed are done so efficiently and timely? Neither do I lol.
But in the off chance you do, all good. Bhvr does make good decisions sometimes, it's just too rare imo. This change for Blight is something that can be done without BHVR adding 4 more bugs to the killer. So that's +1 imo.
Your trapper analogy made me smile, and then I actually thought about it. If comparing an M1 killer to Blight (I know, stupid and no comparison, but hear me out) then the movement speed bonus or detriment affects the M1 killer exponentially more. Maybe exponentially isn't the right word but gets my point across. Its a lot more of an effect.
This bit of movement speed for Blight is so abysmal it shouldn't matter. The things it does matter against, it shouldn't matter. While I agree this isn't -the- change Blight needs, it is still something that could be done without affecting killers, making survivors smile, and nothing really ever happened. Its a number change that BHVR can just put a big W on.
But whether it happens or not, I suppose I dont really care. Blight was so much fun to go against, and now its just kind of the same thing. Not related, just me whining about nostalgia lol. Appreciate the discussion, @shroompy!
1 -
You do know, that there are two sides right? The one playing the killer and the one playing against. I can speak from experience, that it doesn't feel great to be walked down at a loop by a blight / Ghoul, forcing the pallet drop, just for them to break it, catch up in seconds before you can make it to any other resource and get hit.
If we primarily look at how a killer feels when playing them, then we should also remove the fatigue animation from nurse right?
No. It's there to give the survivor a better chance of getting away and losing line of sight.
0 -
I might be wrong here, but can't you make a comparison to Nurse here?
She's even slower than your regular killer. Imagine her being 4.4 or even 4.6
Nurse's that can't hit a blink for their life would still be able to brute force a pallet drop and hit your right after / use power to catch up.
That would definitely be an issue, not to mention how awful it would be to play against a semi decent nurse - > a good nurse.
What people are complaining about, at least from my experience, are the blights that play normal m1, force a pallet, break it and then catch you before you make it to any resource. The fact that he has a pallet break, s-tier mobility and a lethal chase power all combined in one ability ON TOP of being able to chase you like a normal Trapper feels a bit ridiculous.
I think he should follow the rule nurse follows, which means he should be weaker outside of using his power. This means weaker than killers that have a way weaker / more limited power, that often have to chase as a normal m1.
5 -
Well that's the thing.
People believe you should never go down to an M1 killers.
1 -
ok but you can balance a thing without making the changes feel arbitrary and clunky.
4.4 m/s Blight? sure, I can see it. adjust the amount tokens, token recharge speed, movement speed, turn rate, add-ons, etc in a thoughtful, precise manner? hell yeah. remove the pallet break from rush attacks? big fan. make the killer lose their power when breaking a piece of wood with no extra audio/visual feedback work when no other killers in the game suffer from such a mechanic? it just feels gross and unpolished.
0 -
The key difference between the 2 is that Nurse's power completely nullifies pallets and anything LoS she can still play around due to being able to just go through it. Blight still has to play around these things.
Something you made me realize as well is that I think there's conflicting opinions due to what we see as an issue. Personally I don't think Blights who just walk forward and then use their power to catch up is much of an issue. Boring? sure, but to me that person is just not playing the killer correctly. What I'm concerned about is that someone went on a 2k+ winstreak, and I can assure you he didn't do that by just holding W and beating through every pallet.
Post edited by Shroompy on2 -
The pallet breaking seems to be a huge paint point though. I'd take that change over any of the others, personally. I want to give Blight a little more on his turning, as that should be at his most lethal imo.
What I'm concerned about is that someone went on a 2k+ winstreak, and I can assure you he didn't do that by just holding W and beating through every pallet.
Agreed here. If this is possible, and has happened on more than one occasion, then I really feel it deserves a pass for changes simply based on this. I might be an outlier there, but if a killer can consistently get 100+ win streaks… yeaaahhh…
On that note, I'd like to know thoughts on that number? For me, 100+winstreaks are a metric to say 'If this is achievable consistantly,' maybe make a pass on the killer? Should it be 200 wins? 500? Thanks!
0 -
The key difference you missed is that nurse is 100% dependent on her power compare to blight because she moves slower than survivors so she needs very strong power but blight can play as m1 115% speed and than use few rushes to secure a hit or use his power to trawel across the map which nurse cant do.
There is reason why nurse killstreak isnt same as blights and why comp survs consider her weaker than blight even the fact he was nerfed through years since his record killstreak.
Making blight 110% saves his power because 110 needs good,strong power and making him loose two tokens after preforming pallet break action just shuts those that say he needs same as ghoul (which is truth in this matter), these changes wont kill blight or make him unfun to go against they will just force him to use more of his power which is why people like to go against him.
2 -
There's a difference between your first statement. Her power isnt strong because she moves slower, she moves slower because of how strong her power is.
Nurse is also still considered number 1 by a large majority of the player base and all it takes is a really good Nurse to remind you. Her one weakness is LoS breakers and that can be rectified with aura reading, of which there is plenty. When it comes to mobility its definitely not as good as Blights in most scenarios but what people forget to consider is not everything is a straight line. There will be obstacles or even different elevations in the way when youre trying to go somewhere and that is something she doesnt have to worry about, meaning she is a lot less map dependant than Blight.
If they ever make it so aura reading no longer works when using her power, Blight might just take the number 1 spot. But as it stands right now when comparing her to Blight, her lethality more than makes up for her mobility.
1 -
Winstreaks shouldnt be a metric on their own when it comes to balance. There are people out there who have gone on 100+ winstreaks with weaker killers and by no means do these killers need nerfs. Its more a metric of skill since its not like your average joe can pull it off so easily, but it can get to a point (like the 2k+) where its a bit ridiculous and is a sign that something needs to change. Its why I tried to tackle the power it self, and not his base movement speed
0 -
If a killer can get 100+ win streaks consistently, you feel that is alright? I am not saying this is wrong, but I must say it feels like thats not a good thing at all. But I relent this, as it will only ever be subjective.
There are people out there who have gone on 100+ winstreaks with weaker killers and by no means do these killers need nerfs.
Agreed. But with weaker killers, they aren't hitting these win streaks *consistently*. If a trapper gets a 109 win streak, it's celebrated and a big deal. Because thats rare, and really fricken hard. Skill of the player could be the best in the world, and 100 win streak would still be next to impossible on Trappy.
Blight… if someone gets a 100, 200, 500 win streak, its kind of 'oh… neat.' I doubt many are impressed by such a boast, but hey could just be me. Likely just me lol.
Winstreaks shouldnt be a metric on their own when it comes to balance.Agreed. But it is a starting metric in which to add to. This metric is, by itself, strong enough to warrant a review and possible work be done, imo. If nothing need be done, they move on and it remains as is.
__________After some more thought, I feel 100 WS with trapper is nigh impossible. Might have been done, but man I'd love to see it. Makes Blight even more above the line. Nurse, agreed, is all that stands in his way from the #1, and even then I feel they trade the #1 spot constantly.
edit: not saying the weaker killer was trapper, just an example.
Post edited by Terror_Misu on0 -
Thats only thing they can nerf ho make her more healty and thats less time of auta reading when she is charging her power or none (still I will more likely go against nurse that has aura build than the 4 slowdown nurse especialy now where map offerings arent guarantee map as before).
You cant berf nurse much without crippling her, she would need rework more than blight who needs just few changes and he will be solid strong killer.
Nurse beats blight in lethality but blight wins in long game where his speed and agressive nature are more lethal than nurse.
Personaly I did these archives challanges where you have to get 4k with 3 base perks wraiths and huntresses and I couldnt do it with nurse (even when I better with her while I played her less than blight) I got rushed and her lethality against survibors that know how to run her isnt that huge but I did it with blight easily compare to nurse and without addons almost perkless because these perks of these killers have almost no effect maybe huntresses hex does something but it got cleansed fast, I find blight superior esecialy against very good survivors.
0 -
*Lowering the movement speed to 4.4m/s doesn't make much difference. *The most effective way to adjust the Killer is to adjust their unique abilities (including add-ons). *The game is simple. *Because the game is simple, player skill has simply a big impact. *The game feels complex because you've been playing it for a while. Veteran players have gained knowledge of the game over time and find it difficult. *Some players prefer stronger Killers, regardless of experience. *Lowering the movement speed to 4.4m/s will make it boring for many people. *Lowering the movement speed will make players who are already bad at using blight feel like they're just moving slower. *Good Nurse players walk a lot. * The proposed adjustments are worth testing. However, Current testing methods (PTB) cannot accurately evaluate the product. This is because there are people who over-advertise and people who believe in over-advertising. Testing methods need to be improved.
1 -
I don't know what program you're using, but keep doing it! I love seeing passion about something (in this case, dbd) even when there are obstacles.
-1 -
thank you.
0 -
But Ghoul does "suffer" under the same mechanic.
1 -
But shouldnt a killer have to use their power correctly to consistently win?
If I constantly miss my punishment of the damned as PH, I will most likely lose the game.
Blight though? Walk them down at pallets, then use power to get an almost free hit. CCompared to PH, you dont even lose that much time if your chase isnt successful, as you can start a new one in literally seconds by rushing across the map.The problem I see, is that you dont need to play much better against most survivor teams in public lobbies. You can force the pallets and play "incorrectly" but still easily win a majority of your matches.
1 -
yeah sorry I wasn't clear, I was half alluding to ghoul's situation with that one. it feels gross on ghoul and it'd feel equally gross on blight. and yet it didn't stop the griping about ghoul nor would it stop the griping about blight. like if we're gonna be arbitrary with our game mechanics (in this case arbitrary cooldowns) we might as well go full arbitrary and make gens against high mobility killers take less time to account for the massive advantage mobility gives in this time crunch game.
0 -
Its not arbitrary. Its about promoting a playstyle. Just like they did with Pyramid head. They nerfed his zoning twice. First when he was able to hit out of dragging his sword without any cooldown and a few months ago by reducing his movement speed while dragging. With these changes, they clearly want Pyramid head - players to use their power to actually hit survivors and not solely use it for zoning into free hits.
Same with Ghoul and Blight. Ghoul players, at least when he came out, almost never mindgamed any pallets. Why? Cause they could just force the pallet, break it, catch up and get a free hit. Not only do they get rewarded for the laziest way to play, they also get rewarded, as they do get the hit without wasting much time but also create deadzones in the process.
Blight at least has to manuever around obstacles after breaking the pallet. It doesnt make the playstyle much better though. Force pallet → break pallet → catch up → get free hit → continue chasing / leave and get a new chase in literal seconds due to s-tier mobility + create deadzones in the process.
The killer breaking a pallet should give survivors a bit of time to get away. Its a trade. Killer gets rid of resources for later but loses a bit of time. This (OG Ghoul) / Blight playstyle almost entirely shifts this interaction to benefit the killer.
4 -
Not bad changes. I don't mind them making Blighted Crow basekit if they also remove any bonus rush speed addons, as well as reduce rush tokens to 4. Right now Blight is just too oppressive with Rat+Crow, but might struggle against very good players without it. It's an awkward place to be, but overall he's just too strong.
I think an issue of making Blight 4.4 is that if his power becomes less reliable to get hits, and he also isn't able to play tiles M1 properly due to being 4.4 he could actually end up pretty mediocre. I suppose there's many players that wouldn't have an issue with that, but I'd rather keep him decently strong but not OP. At this point, I just want BHVR to address him and Nurse and a few other top and bottom tiers. It feels like it's been so incredibly long since they've done balancing tweaks on so many killers that could need them. Like they're scared to touch it or they'll mess something up somehow, and I sort of get that but come on.
1 -
Making blight 4,4 only makes him worse on loops when he palys as m1 killer without using his power but if his power is mostly untouched he will be the same even in hads on great blight mains like lilith omen or momo becasue majority of their hits comes from his use of his dashes around loops.
1
