comms and ranked system for balancing
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He's not looking for common ground. He just wants to fight.
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language barrier shouldnt be an issue tbf. there are games with a chat wheel that auto translates the message on the wheel to to the native language for the player reading the message. Sea of thieves for example has a chat wheel. as an english speaker i can use the wheel to say "man the cannons". The french player would receive a French translation of that.
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just simply pointing out a flaw i have seen…. apparently anyone that dares question you or the validity of your sources is looking for a fight lol. Not the case at all but your free to believe it if you wish.
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i too have played with people on comms and have person experience…. you want me to show you a screen shot of an end result screen to show i was in SWF and using comms? It wouldnt show we are in SWF or that we used comms but hey thats the evidence we are willing to accept right?
You have not shown any data on your use of comms, thats my point. you have tried to and failed. Because you have failed to prove your point your now throwing the onus to me to prove myself….your failure to prove something doesnt mean i have to show proof. As it stands your views are you own, but they are not proven just as my views are not proven. Throwing pointless screenshots and saying "well i shown something" does not prove your point lol.
Could i post vague screen shots to mimic the type of evidence you provide? sure, would it be valid? probably not because they dont prove anything. in a way i am tempted to do that, throw a load of screen shots your way thats so vague with key details missing just as you have done just to see if you hold them in the same regard as your own. Would they be accurate? maybe, maybe not, would i invent a fictional scenario that matches the vague image shown or would it be the truth? you never know
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Yeah you constantly singling me out and responding to my comments all the time despite us having these same arguments over and over and breaking no new ground—while you also ignore people with the same views—is totally not looking for a pointless fight.
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There is no way to prove this, yet the consistent narrative is "4mans on comms easily wreck killers" despite there being zero proof of this because you don't know who is in a party or on comms. People loose and just assume, because it allows them to deflect responsibility for their losses to something they can state is unfair. So why aren't you asking all these people who say this unproveble thing about comms where their proof is? Because it's the version of the story that you like, that's why.
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i comment on many peoples posts not just yours, it just happens most of your posts seem to not just voice views but you actively try to prove it with evidence thats very easily disputed and makes no sense. If you dont want your evidence to be scrutinised then posting it publicly on the forums is probably not the best idea.
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If there is no way to prove it thats fine, but dont throw out stats that hold no baring at all and say "well i shown somthing" now your turn to prove yourself".
Yes we do know who is in SWF with comms when survivors have the equivalent of wall hacks to know the stealth killer is coming. or when names are identical. When all 4 survivors have names of well known fastfood places it doesnt take a genius to work out they are in SWF. People on ttv….just a click away from witnessing the comms first hand. Your using this "cant prove it" thing to dismiss blatant cases that are obvious while trying to prove these things dont happen.
i dont ask them where their proof is because i dont expect them to prove it. i didnt ask you to prove it….i simply debunked the evidence you provided….i didnt ask you to prove it tho. if they tried to prove it with meaningless evidence that dont hold up i would probably call them out on it too.
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wait give me the TLDR of the aurgument becuase i cant be asked reading that weskers posts
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So you're saying people posting actual BHVR data and personal match histories holds less water than saying "maybe they're doing a totem challenge"? You say a whole lot of nonsense to support playing in a gross manner and never back it up with anything and everyone is just supposed to swallow it?
And what about the parties I play in, on three different platforms, no matching names, no matching characters? When we get stomped, the killer assumes we're soloqers, or they just don't care, because it's only a problem when you loose. The wins that don't fit the narrative are quickly forgotten.
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the thing about stats is that they mean nothing sadly, I remember a guy showed me the japense escape rate was 40% which is what BHVR wants, but the thing is there is a massive step from solo q and SWF no stat can rlly encompass the problem I feel like. Furthermore, stats rlly dont mean anything I feel like due to the vairirty of killers and many people just playing kaneki or s tier killers supress how m1 killers are treatred because they arnt as picked. if we keep useing stats Im pretty sure the game will evovle to everyone just useing blight nurse and ghoul because while that stats make everything look fine the deeper you get you see probelms, a ghostface vs 4 man comms is very diffcult and no stat can present this. Stop useing stats as an arugment they mean nothing in a game so nuanced as dbd. you are ingoring the smaller issues and tryna make seem not seem like an issue due to one stat. Adding on comms will increase the survivalibity in soloques as they can actally plan and coordiante if they wanted too. But yea no more stat talk, until we get a reiliabal stat that shows all the killers killer rate like a better nightlab I dont wanna hear this stat BS.
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basically claimed they have 41% escape rate to try prove that SWF with comms dont destroy killers….i questioned the validity of this claim and possible reasons for that figure…such as dying to aid the team…which a 3 man out 1 dead is a loss for the killer….so 41% escape rate doesnt mean the killer won.
This has now evolved into screen shots being sent to prove the validity of this 41% escape rate.
after i point out potential flaws in the screen shots this goes on to "prove killers get destroyed" because they failed to prove they dont.
pretty much
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Reductionism at its finest, they are just saying everything is fine due to one stat without useing nunace to see the deeper issues, they don't know how they m1 perfrom because they either dont play the killer and due to BHVR not giving offical stats of each killers and well they dont wanna use nightlabs because it is not reliabel, however if we use there logic, then the game is fine now, killers and killermain youtubers making videos on why you should tunnel proxy camp and slug to get the W is become the norm well it already is i tunnel most my games as M1. Things survivors get emtional about 24/7 but they dont want to change how the game is being played due to the stats showing that everything is fine. I hope this brakes the logic but idk.
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im saying it hold less water when these stats being posted are nothing to do with the topic….being comms. meaningless numbers that encorporate a wide variety of things outside the current topic.
I dont care what figures say when they dont reflect my games…. when i see countless people doing totems and they say "sorry, doing challenge" then im more inclined to lean towards what i see not what vague numbers tell me.
Comms is a problem when used correctly, if you dont use comms correctly thats on you. why would the killer care if your in a SWF with poor comms, its like your all soloq at that point. they care when people use comms effectively, by negating entire killers basekit powers such as stealth killers. you dont play that way so you wouldnt understand but there are many many people that do use comms in this manner and its pretty obvious when they do.
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Yes, I agree. I think a communication wheel is pretty much just a great idea. Not really any downsides.
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personally i would like see the stats broken down, escape rates for SWF that use comms and escape rates for SWF that dont use comms. It would still lead to potential holes in using these figures as we never know if the comms are people playing like a swat team or if they are dancing around the map singing kumbaya on mics…. but it would be far better than using SWF as a whole which includes everything from comms to no comms, people memeing and people actually trying to win.
As this will never happen, i just go by my own experience and in a way its nice to know others see a similar thing in their matches….that being comms used highly effectively which can pretty much destroy m1 killers, stealth killers in particular if they dont tunnel and play survivors rules. we are not alone lol there are many killers that see this too. As myers main, SWF with comms used like a swat team completely negated the entire killer. if 1 saw me, they all knew where i was, if i sneak up on someone they were long gone by the time i get there because of comms. Tunneling is pretty handy for evening out the odds.
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ngl im 50/50 survivor and killer, i play survivor only in SWFs we rarely get stomped lmao its too free 4 us, maybe its because we are better than you or because we just bring the meta perks but we dont lose that often unless they are useing high moblity or a actually good at thier killer, in solo q when I used to play it was a nightmare, most survivors dont know basic fundalmental of the game lets be honest it shocks me how many survivors grinded to p100 but cant loop shack correctly. maybe we live in differnt worlds of the game im alot more competitve and wanna win maybe you just play for fun but TBH if you are actually like actually good at the game with ur boys as your teammates unless you got quitekills in your lobby or the killer is tryna tunnel a teammate out fast, you should win I have a 75% escape rate as survivor with my Lara and 500 hours on her I only play SWFS compared to ur 40% escape rate it rlly shows the power of a SWF and having good teamamtes.
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I agree too it seems we found the common ground a comm wheel is the best option for the game
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better then the wesker just taking screenshots of useless stats that mean nothing
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Cool story bro
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one day you will stop getting stomped by trappers and pigs
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Talking trash about me in my face and expecting me to engage with you in any meaningful way is certainly something.
I play killer just about every day. I have 120 killer matches for the month, which is low for me because of 2v8, but is still probably higher than many forum members. Dredge is my second most played killer and is an M1, so don't tell people what I do and do not play, random stranger. You're claiming reductionism while making blanket statements about comms that just aren't true to the whole picture of party dynamics, and on which there is zero data, only vibes.
Periods are free now btw. So is spell check.
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I find it amusing, tbh.
We don't like the empirical data because it goes against the narrative. You can hem and haw all you like, but the fact of the matter is that Killers are killing more than Survivors are escaping, and they have been for a long time.
There's something to be said for context, but that's not really your argument. You want to ignore the stats completely, because they prove that there's really not a big difference between Solo and SWF in terms of escape rates AND that Killer, as a whole, is doing very well.
I'm glad you think the game is nuanced now, but somehow I suspect you'd be signing a different tune if the Kill Rates showed 40% across the board.
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Yes, quite a bit different, actually.
See, even if you nitpick or disagree, there's genuine empirical evidence showing SWF and Solo Q escape about the same amount. Slight difference in favor of SWF, but not too much. Even if you think that's misguided or out of context, there IS evidence for it. There's no evidence for your opinion, besides completely anecdotal experiences. You have zero hard data.
Considering you name anyone who disagrees with you liar, I think I'll be fine. You never even debunked anything, you just asked for information that even BHVR doesn't have access too. If they did, it'd be Spyware.
No. Unless you want to install Spyware on DBD players systems, listen in on their comms and make a opinion-based judgement call on how serious they are playing. You can nitpick all you want, only one of our stances has any ground to stand on and it isn't the one with zero evidence, data or possibility of proof.
But go off, ig. Hit me with another non sequitur. Might as well get all the logical fallacies too.
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the problem with word-based wheels is that language barriers exist
One really nice thing about a ping system or comms wheel is that localization is client side.
So if I use the wheel to say something like "going for unhook", then each player would hear that call out in their own language automatically.
And since the comms wheel callouts are determined by BHVR, there's no moderation issue with bad actors. Well, aside from spamming, which can be mitigated with ping cooldowns.
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once again you are talking about SWF and soloq…we are not talking about that we are talking about comms. Showing evidence that shows ALL SWF its useless. its like talking about Nurse and showing you stats that include ALL killers including nurse. Its meaningless.
So like i said, if you dont have ACTUAL evidence that highlights COMMS impact on killers then its probably best to not show anything or it will be debunked. unless we are agreeing that anecdotal evidence is now valid?
Without actual evidence then it is just purely anecdotal which has been considered invalid in many arguments. assuming individual killers kill rates were never shown, if i was talking about Nurses kill rate then i show you evidence of ALL S tier kill rates it would not be valid as it it would incorporate stats outside of Nurse. This is what you have done, we are talking about comms being used and the impact they have on the killer and you take stats that show ALL SWF escape rate and expect it to be valid? sorry but no lol.
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I mean i can show you my survivor stats if you want. I'm just making fun of you because it's funny, you're so disconnected from every other aspect of the game, you forgot about everyone else's fun apart from yours as well. No nuance in what you say.
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Yea 100%. But until the whole narrative comes out it's rlly anyone's guess. It's just andoical evidence at this point. But I feel like the skill gap in the game is also very brutal and nuanced. We all can counter some killers better than others there might be a universal trend like m1s just being being easy to counter but every survivor interacts with every killer differently too. But yea I'm come to see it isn't rlly an us vs them thing rlly for me both survivor and killer seems repetitive but that's also ig because the metas are kinda stagnet.
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you're quite right. i completely forgot that locale can make a difference haha!
i agree, i don't really see what could go wrong with this kind of system.
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Now, this? This I can agree with.
There is nuance, there is context. But still, we do know Killers are doing very well as a whole right now. So when I hear people like runningguy claim that comms are ruining the game, or that they are somehow OP, I look at the data we DO have.
And that data does not support their argument. It isn't perfect, but they are asking for something that cannot be proven. They want to prove intent, basically. What did the SWF INTEND to do. Were they goofy? Competitive? Silent? That's what they want to know, and that's ridiculous, quite frankly.
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Oh? Solo Q uses comms? Do tell me more.
SWF's, the vast majority, use comms. Solo Q do not. Ergo, we compare comms vs no-comms. Quite simple.
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majority of SWF use comms? you have figures to show this being as you like to provide evidence? Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms". So if not all SWF use comms then how many dont? We dont know do we, so why would count all people in the stats when they dont use comms? if say 50% use comms, thats half that dont and as such could likely be dying more thus lowering the escape rate for ALL SWF.
These figures you present as evidence is entirely speculative and based on assumptions that ALL or MOST SWF use comms…. You might throw around stats with assumptions and claim they are fact but thats not actual evidence no matter how much you try to claim it is.
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This discussion about third party comms is irrelevant. Unless the devs install spyware, as someone else said before, they can't possibly know who uses it and what their intent in using it is, and therefore cannot ever balance around it. The only way to balance around comms is to have an in-built comms system, which is very unlikely to ever happen because it's more time, money, and resources dedicated to policing it. As others have said, best option would be a comms wheel. No policing, and easy to balance around. People can moan about third party comms til the cows come home but the devs can't balance around assumptions. They need hard data.
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so what? many games have had voice comms since there inception.
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Survivor stats aren't accurate unless you never abandon. That's well known. The only reason I even mention mine is because I don't abandon. I dont trust a single person's survivor stats but my own.
Disconnected from what? False narratives? I play SWF, solo, and killer. You said you only SWF as survivor, so I'm playing a lot more of the game than you are. Who's more disconnected?
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Cogsy has said himself "not all SWF use comms".
Ah and there it is, you using something you like that someone else said because it suits your argument in the moment. Can't go a few posts without it doing, huh? I'm a liar until my words are useful.
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Well you did say it, im right that it's an assumption that can't be proven. It's an opinion, nothing more. Your entitled to that opinion. An opinion based on your own experience at the time. Now the issue comes if you try to prove this is not an assumption and use this as evidence to show this is the case for everyone. That's when I'm likely to disprove and discredit it as evidence, because it's simply not proven and can't be proven.
Besides, not everything is black and white right? It is possible to lie about something but tell the truth about something else. you did say this comment when you also said that you don't always use comms. Does that mean that's the case now? Of course not, now your saying you have not used no comms in a while. Just because now you decide to use comms when you didn't so much before does not erase what you said.
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Survivor stats are not accurate unless you never abandon? So someone that rarely abandons or never abandons and gets the hatch would have reasonably accurate stats?
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Hatch is considered null in the system, same as DCs and abandons. So i don't think there's any difference. The personal stats pages need fine tuning because i believe both hatch and abandons show as escapes, whereas in the system that the devs use (ie which determines MMR) both hatch and abandons are non-factors.
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This one is easily solved via logic, so Let's try together.
People want to play with friends. They like to be able fo talk with them. Not much of a point in grouping up with zero communication. In fact, you can't even do that, since you need to send someone an invite, which means you need their account name. That's external comms. Ergo, almost every single SWF uses it.
So what is it that you want? You insist everyone else is wrong, because they aren't God and can't give you exact data on every minute detail but you simultaneously can't even live up to your own standards.
Just another contrarian.
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This exactly. Survivor stats are heavily bloated, since abandons counts as escapes on the stat tracker site.
I use the abandon feature, because I am so tired of finisher moris at this point in time.And talking about bloated escape rates, this example should speak for itself:
I know a lot of SWF use the abandon feature, so if you are one of them @Fixthisgamebad, then your 75% escape rates are nowhere near accurate.
For context, my average used to be 44% before the abandon feature got added.
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That's a nice idea, but how do you determine who is a "sweaty SWF"?
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There is a point to grouping up in SWF without comms as been previously pointed out by cogsy lol. He himself stated a while ago that he played in SWF and did not use comms that often.
I'm not claiming anyone is right or wrong, I'm simply saying using evidence that is buffed out by potential stats that don't apply such as people not using comms as cogs admitted to doing himself.
Fact remains, like it or not, using ALL SWF stats under 1 blanket to assume all are using comms is speculation....what would happen if I assumed cogs was using comms every SWF match? I would be told "that's not true, because I don't use comms much even in SWF". Speculation is never good for proof, if you can't prove it then it's speculation.
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Except hatch counts as escapes as they also count towards challenges and adepts. Abandons do not count towards challenges and adepts.
Abandons do not count as escapes on the tracker, they are void, no escape, no death, just a blank space on the recent matches section. Hatch actually does say "escaped".
Also the reason why I asked this question is because of the statement being stat tracker is accurate if you never abandon... Suggesting hatch escapes that count towards the escape rate is acceptable for providing reliable accurate results.
Is it that stats where someone never abandons are accurate? Or are stats accurate if you never abandon and never escape via hatch? The difference can be important when considering accuracy.
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They might allow it for adepts and challenges for the sake of a personal 'win', but it doesn't count on their end at all (see screenshot below).
And not mentioning hatch doesn't mean they're suggesting it counts. It could simply be that excluding hatch is more difficult than excluding abandons, especially if, as you say, it is evident on the stats page that an abandon took place. Which I'll take your word for - i don't use the stats tracker. But if hatch is showing as some sort of pity escape to make people feel better, then it's doing a disservice imo.
So again, the stats page needs fine tuning because as it stands it's not really proof of anything. A stats page could say someone has an 80% escape rate, which you would assume must mean they're some cracked high MMR player, but if they're actually a rat who hides for hatch most games then it means nothing.
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An experience is not an opinon. Not being on comms is my experience. You can choose whether or not to believe me but it isn't an opinon.
Survivor stats are not accurate unless you never abandon? So someone that rarely abandons or never abandons and gets the hatch would have reasonably accurate stats?
You're well aware abandons delete losses. You've mentioned it multiple times, as well as being present in the threads we've spoken about it. No one is talking about your precious hatch. You said you use the abandon when no other option is available therefore your stats are innaccruate. You don't care about BHVRs accurate official stats; I don't care about your innacurate ones.
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You inexperience is anicdotal just like my experience is.
Just because I said I abandoned before doesn't mean I abandon now does it? Just like you not using comms before doesn't mean you don't use them now. Things change. Therefore if your basis for accurate stats via the stats tracker is simply don't abandon...then me not abandoning, escaping via gates or hatch would show accurate stats, correct? They would show escapes v deaths.
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What rules do SWF bypass?
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