Its time to balance the S tier killers
I've played for a few years now and have loved almost all of the changes and improvements your team has brought to the game. I see you've been trying to balance around pallet density to balance out killer and survivor. I think one of the problems holding your balance team back is the S tier killers. Balance implementations tend to primarily affect old M1 killers, while the S tier simply do not care. The S tier seem pretty clear in the community. They are Blight and Nurse. Is it because they have the highest kill count? No. Its because they have very little counterplay in the hands of a good player.
A killer can be strong as long as there is some counterplay involved. I have a few proposals to include counterplay without destroying the core of the killer.
Blight - Bump his base move speed to 110%. That should fix almost all of his problems. Back when Blight was made, I'm sure the melee move speed was needed because bumping was both new and a little buggy. But that's been largely fixed. People can turn corners with blight on a dime. He's a ranged killer now. The 110% move speed will punish reckless use of his power, and allow one area of counter play by making small loops more effective against him. I doubt this love tap will do much to his popularity, but it hopefully bump him down to A tier while not diminishing his identity or skilled plays.
Nurse - Nurse's major problem is a good teleport counters all viable mechanics survivors have. Windows, walls, pallets? Pointless. Further, the game has evolved a long way since she was implemented, and people who know how to use her are amazingly accurate with their teleports. So how to restore a bit of counter play while keeping her iconic abilities?
A. A form of power cooldown - We still need Nurse's mobility, so keep the cooldown the same. Simply remove the ability to attack on teleport. When she M1's someone, which a skilled use of teleport should be able to do, then nurse unlocks her previous ability to also attack while teleporting for 30 seconds. This window of attack could also activate instead of or concurrent with bloodlust to prevent a 'don't heal against this killer' scenario.
This brings back windows and pallets as important counter plays. The 50/50 can now be which side nurse is going to teleport to. And once the survivor has been m1'd one time, we're back to normal extremely powerful nurse gameplay for 30 or X seconds. This still retains that scary and oppressive nature of a good Nurse. This will require us to increase her move speed to…
B. Base speed increase to 116
With the above change to teleport, Nurse is no longer a ranged killer, but a unique melee killer. She'll need that 116 to land that first M1 hit, and we should also let her hook speed and map presence be a little scarier as well. I still think she'll be extremely strong, but the key here is that she'll be easier to balance and provide counterplay. I can't see her not being A tier.
Comments
-
How about buffing F tier killers so you see killers besides Nurse and Blight? No?
4 -
Sure, I get the sentiment. I'm not saying you shouldn't buff F tier either. But S tiers are very visible game altering characters that generally are oppressive to both play against, and design for. I'm also not sure there's any F tier characters anymore. Trapper I believe is considered the weakest, but he's a great beginner killer and can still snowball a game in the right circumstance.
Also, buffing F tier isn't going to make them S tier. S tier is something you shouldn't be shooting for. Its where the game begins to break for the other side.-3 -
Unfortunately the devs move off data, and honestly i dont think any of the best killers will get touched any time soon with the way things are looking. But when they do its most likely going to be some type of survivor nerf before it happens.
-1 -
there is no F tier killers in this game, if ur a good killer u could go on 70%+killrate on all killers in the current mmr system, why do u think stats show that even weak killer have over 60% killrate on average. game is built for killers to win games, the best teams obviously are the counter to those people. but realistically that is very small precentage of players, and the A-S tier killers that are good at the game can counter those top teams.
-5 -
Blight needs more than just 4.4 movement speed, he needs to have 2sec longer time for token charge, and he needs to lose tokens when he break pallets and injure survivor, also maps like corn needs giga rework since they are very bad for survivors, like really bad!
-4 -
This content has been removed.
-
My goal is not to knock these killers down to not being used anymore, or lower than A tier. Blight could still be the best killer in the game and that wouldn't be a problem. The problem is his counter play is too low at this time, and he has negligible weaknesses in the hands of a good player. Same with Nurse.0 -
buddy blight is my most played killer in my 12k hours and my opinion is legit, this killer wont be weak even after this nerf, he will be top A tier, in corn maps he will still be S tier even after this change, just making him 4.4 wont solve much.
1 -
agreed. nerf Nurse and Blight, and buff the low tiers.
try to bring more toward the middle
1 -
i feel like this post greatly fails to understand nurse in particular… blight, easy enough give him the token consumption ghoul gets on pallet break.
but nurse? I feel most of this is coming from a fundamental lack of understanding of both how nurse is balanced and more importantly how to counter her… and i get it, a really good nurse feels unbeatable, hell even a bad nurse can feel that way if you dont know how to deal with her.
and that's really the issue of nurse, she's rare enough outside the high mmrs you dont get to learn how to deal with her, how to locker escape from lunges, how to double back and juke a lunge, and how to properly bait out lunges around windows and how to judge a nurse's lunge range based on charge time so you can stun her with pallets. but, she's common enough in high mmr that she feels impossible to players who never were able to learn how to play around her.
which raises the question, should we start nerfing killers because survivors either dont get the time to learn the killer or in some cases actively refuse to learn? I would argue no, I applaud any attempts to truly balance the game and im on board with blight nerfs as blight is a huge problem…. but the nurse changes feel like a fundamental misunderstanding of nurse, her purpose and is the wrong way to balance her
3 -
your changes dont address why people use S tier killers tho. good Survivors have so much perks and resources to use that playing m1 or low mobility killers is just nerfing yourself. Maybe can we can balance them after all the ######### with the weaker killers and maps are delt with but rn if you just balance them without anything else, your just asking killers to play an entertainer role rather than killer. its boring I can get that and these killers are op, but like whats the point of playing pig and goshie when they suck.
1 -
Already did.
We almost buffed every low tier or reworked some of them.
Pyramid head, freddy, singularity, knight, trickster, myers.
Not every killer is perfect but there are solid contenders.
The problem is, as long as you have an absurdly easy yet powerful alternative, no one would bother to consistently play anyone else.
Why would i play myers if ghoul/blight/nurse do it better and easier than what i mentioned?
-2 -
After some consideration.
Its clear that bhvr straight up doesnt want to nerf the s-tiers to a true balanced state.
Either because money or negliance or incompetence, they simply will never do it.
So, what can we do?, the same thing killers have been doing, aiming for the perks.
So, i will be shouting for blood favour to be nerfed.
Unironically a higher chance to be nerfed than a killer for some reason.
0 -
… ph wasnt great but he definately wasn't low tier
also still waiting on a real legion buff beyond making useless addons less terrible
0 -
What about nerfing SWF? If you nerf S tiers without nerfing SWF, what killers can do against them?
-2 -
Trapper, Legion, Ghostface, Skull Merchant, THOSE are low tier killers
And none of them had a good rework/update
0 -
Trapper, Legion, Ghostface, Skull Merchant, THOSE are low tier killers
And none of them had a good rework/update
0 -
TLDR: Give every Killer some form of map mobility or catch-up ability.
What low-tier Killers need most of all is decent map mobility and/or catch-up. That’s where a lot of the fun starts to drop off. I find Sadako infinitely more fun to play than, say, Trapper, simply because she has map mobility in her kit, even though a double Iri Trapper is probably the stronger Killer or at least not much weaker. Every time I play one of those low-mobility Killers, I ask myself why I picked them, because so much potential gameplay interaction is missing when you have to hold W for what feels like an eternity.
No matter how good a Killer’s anti-loop is, Killers with mobility will always be more fun to play as and against because they provide the most interaction between both roles. Also, tuning a non-mobility Killer’s anti-loop to be extremely oppressive is, I think, no fun for either side.
0 -
That would be fine by me. If he's still the strongest in the game, that's fine. He'll just have a little counter play now on short loops.
0 -
Fair enough. I may be wrong on Nurse. Let me reiterate my intention and see if its still off. I understand all of the counters you're talking about. However, they require very specific and rare situations and set ups. Which is great! Its why I didn't want to destroy her power. The problem is it eliminates all other basic counters that a killer has, and creates a higher level meta game.
I think its great that Nurse's power is in DBD. My intention is to keep the Nurse power, but require a little bit of earning that still keeps normal counter play. I cannot see this lowering her past A tier. She will still be VERY strong, and you may be missing howe powerful being a full speed killer on top of normal teleporting can be. Once she hits you, she then gets her normal teleport attack AND has full movespeed too. And if that's still too powerful, she can go back to ranged speed for the duration. She's still hard to play. Still rewarding and powerful to play. But now there's a bit more counterplay for survivors.Post edited by Wirius on-1 -
Once you get your S tier killers fixed in the game, that allows you to better balance the remaining killers. At that point they may also look at survivor nerfs, because survivor buffs have taken S tier killers existing in the game as well.
I want to be clear. There will always be a strongest killer that people say is BS. I think its clear that the S tier in this game are S tier because in the right hands, there's little to no meaningful counterplay for survivors. I enjoy facing all of the A tier killers even when I lose because it felt like I could do better next time. I enjoy playing killer myself. Counterplay to some extent is needed for a killer to play as and against.Post edited by Wirius on-3 -
A tier killers do really well vs SWF, even B tiers are fine, its all about the player who plays those killers/survivors. S tiers are just autopilot easy mode(require bit of knowledge of the killer and its power tho). even stats shown that in average 4men are losing to killers so whats ur point? u can only claim SWF sided game before 6.1 update, not anymore tho.
-2 -
SWF is still such powerful that in comp they need to nerf them very hard to be balanced. if you play on swf and still lose, it's skill issue from the players.
1 -
both sides are balanced in comp, also selective maps are used which are good for both in most cases, people do perkless streaks on killers, do they do it on survs tho? ive seen so many streamers and people doing streaks on perkless addonless killers and get plenty of wins, most players are not comp players either, comp players are 0.0001% of the player base, A-S tier killers are stronger than 4men teams, even in comp, its all about skills and map RNG etc, if the killer of A-S is good enough he should win most games vs 4SWF. also stats proves im right since even 4men are behind killers.
0 -
Onepumpwillie won 300 matches with Trapper in a win streak, if you can do a 300 win streak with trapper then this shows how bad survivors in pubs are. You cannot consider pub matches to say how strong a killer is. And no, not both sides are balanced in comp, the comp is balanced for the killer to have more advantage, that's why they don't use any of broken survivor's map and the map is almost always picked in favor of the killer.
-1 -
The justification for S-Tier Killers is SWF, so both need nerfs, except that idea ruffles the feathers of some people here who lack critical thinking lmao
However, BHVR is going to do neither because they prioritize profit over community and game balance.
0 -
Nurse - can't see survivor aura while charging a blink, rework lunge addon
Blight - lose 2 tokens on manual pallet break, rework green speed addon-1 -
S tier killers break the base design of what the game is supposed to be, which means that a lot of killers need borderline busted or boring mechanics to keep up with high skilled survivors.
If you nerf Nurse, Blight and Kaneki, you can nerf survivor meta perks, reduce pallet count by 1-2 on average on every map, reduce the strength of certain tiles.
Because you cant buff F tier killers to deal with maps balanced around S tier killers, when those F tier killers have very problematic abilities when scaled to that point-1 -
double iri trapper is decent, and a good player can utilize well his powers, so basically even if u claim hes weak, if people can do 300streaks on him currently, u want to buff him so people can do 2000 winstreak on him? xd
0 -
Personally I think Nurse will always be busted because she acts as a trump card whenever any pay to play claims surface. It's a particularly weak one given how transactions work within DBD, but I think it will always exist. As far as the others go, who knows honestly.
0 -
-1
-
What did you expect? Behavior seems like they haven't even played their own game, and they only listen to survivors who don't know how to play just so they can "win." And in 2v8 it's not even fun, it's just extremely unbalanced; they don't even know about game balancing.
-1
