Trickster does not work having 4.4 movement speed.

NeonBox
NeonBox Member Posts: 3

Using his power now feels so rough. Overall, I like the rework, but he just comes up short a lot of the time and it’s mostly due to this speed decrease. It’s like the devs forgot that you also slow down when you use your power. It was fun at first but now the rework makes him feel weaker than he was before unless you get lucky with a snowball. It’s especially bad since the meta right now seems to be Sprint Burst and Vigil. Even more bad when you have a 1 in 4 chance of getting an indoor map. Everyone is just prerunning and even by the time I do catch up, they still manage to easily outplay me since I’m so slow.

He needs to be given his movement speed back at the very least. Having less blades is rough too, as I feel like you have to be super accurate or either reload halfway through a chase.

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Comments

  • GeordieKiller
    GeordieKiller Member Posts: 478

    yeah totally agree and so do alot of people it has been feedback to devs on PTB and Live so hopefully they listen and buff his base movement speed and ammo then he would be at a good tier right now i believe he dropped a tier cause of how slow he is

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083
    edited March 21

    If he didnt slowed that much and was like 115% version when holding knifes and had more knifes like 44 instead of 36 than it could work I guess.

    • Decreased base Throw State movement speed to 3.68m/s (was 3.86m/s).
      • After consecutive Blade throws, Throw State movement speed is decreased to 3.53 m/s.
      • After 16 consecutive Blade throws, Throw State movement speed is decreased to 3.16 m/s.

    I didnt get here that after some knifes throwed he slows but his throw rate gets increased by 50%,100% but on character that now needs to save amo than waste it because without it he is slow bum isnt anything great.
    I know throw rate got faster I think from 0,33 to 0,3 seconds but thats not huge change compare to speed.

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 3,215

    I agree with the ammo point, I find if you're breaking pallets/gens you get style points often enough.

    I feel though I need to build Brace/Dance shoes, I feel like those 2 being base kit would make the style system feel more rewarding/also make breaking more relevant to the power.

    and instead make shoes give 5 percent outside of aiming for a few seconds after an interaction (that way you could reload and move around the map faster), bracer I'm not sure what I'd suggest?

  • katoptris
    katoptris Member Posts: 3,334

    He was originally this slow if I remember correctly when he first got released. The updated one was more melee then hitting ur shot alongside spam. The laceration and ammo should be bump up a bit to compensate for the movement speed.

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 6,801

    The problem is that he requires 6 blades to do damage, vs say a huntress who needs 1. Its much harder to hit 6 blades than it is to hit 1. On top of that, he starts with i think its 36? blades, which is enough to get 6 health states if you perfectly hit every single one. Huntress starts with 7 already.

    He has a lullaby like huntress (for some completely unknown reason btw)

    He has 4.4 m/s like huntress

    So basically compared to huntress he is:

    Worse than huntress:

    • 6 health states of ammo vs her 7
    • Longer to damage a health state than huntress
    • Bigger Terror radius
    • Can't do orbitals

    The same as huntress:

    • Movement speed
    • Lullaby

    Better than huntress:

    • Main event
    • Can hit knives through tighter holes than huntress.

    I really don't see all those downsides as being worth those couple of upsides

  • Mikeadatrix
    Mikeadatrix Member Posts: 907

    Still baffled Cut Thru U was gutted and not implemented basekit (at least partially). Speed isn't essential to Trickster's kit but he is punished heavily in loops that he can't throw over, plus the decay is way too rapid and makes the 4.4 feels even worse.

  • indieeden7
    indieeden7 Member Posts: 3,659

    You're forgetting his main advantage over Huntress, missing projectiles is significantly less punishing for Trickster than it is any other ranged killer

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083

    I would say huntress is easier to react too but yeah he isnt better than her (maibe if you are top tier trickster thats when it changes but on average he sucks more) thats why he is considered c-tier basicaly low tier killer while huntress is somewhere in b-tier not to mention she can snipe its hard and maps nowdays arent made for that but she is bigger beast than trickster not to mention main event got huge nerf too like its less per match (I think even first version of trickster had reached main event easier than the reworked one too) and biggest nerf for main event you cant use it near hooked survivors so keeping s-rank its way to go but than ammo and thats where you use main event as finisher of that damage that can be down because main event alone isnt worth using.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083

    Now its not that unpunished he can only take 6 health states meaning he cant miss much (he is 110 speed and without enough knifes he cant play loops) and he is slower while throwing (movement speed), if they just made him bit faster while he holds knifes and gave him few more like +6 he would be more interesting.

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 1,020

    4.6m/s move speed and 6 blades to injure can't be together.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,828

    Wanna explain why? They've never tried. The only comparison we have is from years ago with the very first trickster adjustment to 4.6 and even then it didnt make trickster any better BECAUSE they raised the hits needed to 8. Now we see now it was never a worry in the first place. Maps are more congested with random rocks,walls,trees. More pallets as well. Not even counting the exhaustion meta of the moment they hear lullaby they get 30+ meters of distance away from trickster before he even gets where they were (sprint burst anyone). Play on his own map now for instance and you will see all this at play at once.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 14,472
    edited March 23

    He either needs 115% or significant buffs to compensate, and I don't mean just a little ammo increase or less slowdown on throw. Personally I don't think 110% works for killers where their power does not give some kind of mobility with it or have some kind of general game slow down mechanic to compensate for the time lost, of which he has neither. Since the latter would require too much work at this point 115% just makes more sense and is easier to do.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,828

    Thats what I said on the original feedback patch pretty much lol. If they wanted to make trickster 110 work in current day theyd have to lower shrubbery on all maps. Fix exhaustion perks. Spread out pallets so he can get knives in over time. Which would also fix it for other 110s. But that vs just make em 115 I think which would be the easier choice.

  • niteowl
    niteowl Member Posts: 36

    Yeah I've been getting w keyed quite a bit :(

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 3,317

    Survivors want to go next vs 6 blade trickster this would cause the next skull merchant

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083
  • Mikeadatrix
    Mikeadatrix Member Posts: 907

    Say what you want about Zozo, they know Trickster down to his DNA. I don't know if I fully agree that the only way out for Tricky is if he's 4.6 but it is an objective fact that he needs a lot of buffs and changes to undo the damage they did to him Post-PTB. Hell, PTB Trickster with CTU as an addon was fun and felt good; so it beats me why BHVR felt the need to slow him down to a slug's pace across ALL boards.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083

    I think what he means for 4,6 m/s is that in long run trickster will be still able to be dangers because being 4,4 you are efeected more by maps (like we can clearly see now on tricksters delusion aka new map) and perks that give haste so thats why keeping him 4,6 is better in long run and way easier fix than buffing him in more ways (which would be needed if he would be still 4,4 m/s killer because they need strong powers for lack of their speed best exsample are killers like spirit,henry but even springtrap or slinger have solid powers that would be very strong in hands of 4,6 killers).

    He needs some buffs because what is in live now is snail not to mention the more main event moto is dead now.

  • MrBuffalo
    MrBuffalo Member Posts: 348

    I really don't get why they bother with killer move speeds anymore. Just make everyone base speed at this point.

    But I do agree. Them lowering Tricksters move speed was a…. Choice. And a pretty bad one at that

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 1,132

    Huntress, Vecna, Chucky, Deathslinger, Spirit, Springtrap, etc. would have their gameplay pretty scuffed by a universal 115% change, as their abilities are very much so kept in check at a lot of loops by the speed difference between being 4.4 vs 4.6

    Killer speed varieties allow for a broader range of power designs by nerfing movement and making them more reliant on skilled use of their power to work.

    Nurse gets a new power in this hypothetical too, which is interesting yet sure to upset her mains.

  • supersonic853
    supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,828

    Not sure in the springtrap part of that because people have pushed for 115 for him before and he is 115 whenever he doesnt have his axe. So if he throws it and hits someone the distance gained is relatively the same as a normal 115.

  • MashedBroccoli
    MashedBroccoli Member Posts: 357
    edited March 24

    seems to work just fine for me. I will still be downvoted though even though he is fine and as strong as ever though. If trickster should be 4.6 than so should huntress in fact I would say she needs it more than he does.

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  • TamaraLatte
    TamaraLatte Member Posts: 12

    In solo queue, most people can't be arsed with Trickster anymore. I've played 3 trickster games and in ever single one, one or two gave up straight away and stood still, so I've started doing the same. There's no point me trying if it's gonna be 5 gens and 2v1.

  • GeordieKiller
    GeordieKiller Member Posts: 478

    that screenshot doesnt really prove he is fine as we have no idea what kind of survivors you gone against were they high level or low level ? which currently we wont know as dbd hides their mmr rating for some reason.

    and i actually agree not only trickster but huntress should be now 4.6 the current climate of the game killers need to be 4.6 to barely keep up or insane travel like the first (ST vecna) and springtrap with his doors but 1st got to get trickster back to 4.6 then we can look at other 4.4 killers

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 1,132

    Making Springtrap 115% while carrying his axe would severely scuff zoning survivors, especially since his axe holding speed is already a fair amount faster than a similar ability like Huntress.

    As well, it'd ruin the logic behind his axe recall as he'd be moving the same speed regardless of whether or not he holds the axe, meaning there'd be almost no reason to not just recall the axe whenever so you can have it on standby.

    If anything, it could be argued he'd be the worse offender of a universal 115% change as his power is half built around swapping from 4.4 to 4.6

  • Rokku_Rorru
    Rokku_Rorru Member Posts: 3,215

    Its better than the people here who are just saying trust me bro, no? LOL

    I'm personally enjoying them, but I feel a lot of killers have became accustomed to Ghoul/Blight levels of power honestly.

    I keep saying it but I love brace and shoes together as them. Aiming movement speeds always made Trickster more comfy to play for me.

  • MashedBroccoli
    MashedBroccoli Member Posts: 357

    i get what you mean, mmr is messed up so i don’t factor it in. I’ve played against quaddi, skermz, zerbs and other high tiers but also faced survivors that are terrible.

  • Abbzy
    Abbzy Member Posts: 3,083

    I not for some killers being 4,4 m/s but they need strong power to compensate for lack of their base speed, killers like spirit,henry or chucky,slinger (even thos they have some more weakneses and were nerfed and are long time from their prime like chucky got nerfed many times and slingers beggest nerf was instashooting without need of having full ads on his gun their powers are still very good in terms of dealing damage to survivors and in hands of skilled players they can be force to wrecken with), even springtrap can be mentoned here he is 4,4 killer that after loosing axe from his hands is 4,6 m/s but his power is in 4,4 mode and its strong antiloop tool.

    Huntress kinda is good too but she is getting outdated especialy with her easy predictibiality like she is easy to read and her sound cues and cooldowns are easy to get used too plus without axes she is bum Idk why that addon that makes her 4,6 m/s speed after she has no axe in her inventory isnt basekit. She can be good but you need extreamly good aim because her axes are one of biggest illusions in the entire game they look just like thin hatchets but in reality they are huge balls that colide with objects as same as with survivors sometimes even more (with objects).

    A killer can work on lower speed if he has good power he can just look at nurse only reason her power must be strongest in the game is that she is 2% slower than survivors and cant play without her power or do anything.

    Trickster could work on 4,4 but he would need more buffs and I fear in this devs wouldnt listen his best mains that clue how to make him good again rather just make it themselfs and listen some survivors fro mtwitter or 3 pig mains that had no clue what trickster needs, we will see how it will go but I dont think many of his mains like his rework like the video from Zozo I posted earlier just shows what all he got nerfed and how big of impact it has on his gameplay compare to his previous version.

  • grilledmackerel
    grilledmackerel Member Posts: 4

    New update, still no 4.6 m/s for Trickster. Smh.

  • BongoBoys
    BongoBoys Member Posts: 926
    edited March 25

    What's hilarious if you hook someone in the middle of midwhich there's nowhere you can use main event I lost my mind

  • BongoBoys
    BongoBoys Member Posts: 926

    I think 4.4 Trickster and the super fast Laceration Decay is extremely bad like you lose full resets cause you can't get a good angle cause your so slow

  • NeonBox
    NeonBox Member Posts: 3

    His power seem optional? Most killers in the game are that movement speed, are any of their powers optional? If anything I think he needs it more since they want you to mix in basic attacks to rank up.