Fast track is unfair and bad design
I know people are gonna say killers do these stuff anyway but im a killer who has always respected the prescense of DS and generally just find it more engaging to spread pressure anyways. But fast track right now is making me change my playstyle. By tunnelling and using a mori, you prevent that survivor from gaining/using fast track tokens… cuz they are dead but also killing them instead of hooking them means 3 less tokens for everyone else.
I don't like that this is the way it is but i feel like i have no choice right now because if you spread pressure survivors will build up tokens and obliterate the last remaining gens.
Comments
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Fast track is going to stay, at least for a while.
It is in the same boat as Resurgence-overtuned perk that makes tunneling the better play while not being overpowered when brought by only one person. And Resurgence wasn't changed ever since it got buffed in july 2 years ago.
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I've never had a problem with resurgence. In fact i never really had a problem with heal speeds, they just not comparable to gen speeds at all.
Fast track is really bad for the game. I think even if they just halved it to 1% token instead of 2% which they increased it to, it'd probably be fine.-7 -
How does the killer even know if it's being ran? Survivors are being tunneled all the time regardless anyways.
Nothing has changed at all like you said, killers need to hook to get their gen regression, fast track is nothing compared to what's available on killer side.
People stop doomposting challenge impossible.10 -
Doesn't everything, at this point?
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Not trying to invalidate how you personally are feeling but I feel as though I’ve gotten some whiplash. It wasn’t long ago when most 2nd chance perks were deemed the reason to slug, because it stopped them from ever activating. And then there was also any kind of perks that activate off of unhooks also became a reason to slug, because if you deny the hook you can deny the perk. The reason keeps changing but there is always a reason for those that want to find one.
I’m unsure whether or not the perk is in a very healthy spot right now, as I haven’t seen it really affect my games. I know this doesn’t mean that it’s not actually happening, I admit that I am limited to my experience, much like everyone else. But if a perk is overturned I feel it’s much healthier to just say it’s overturned and it should be fixed rather than attaching some kind of consequence to it, because it implies that if it was reverted the consequences would go away, and that’s simply not true. I think it’s just the new flavor of the week reason. People have been claiming that “X” is the reason for slugging/tunneling for 10 years, there will always be a reason for someone that wants one.
Again, the perk could absolutely need tweaks, I am not disagreeing with that. But I disagree with this idea that because of it, people have to tunnel/slug. They did it long before the perk existed and will continue to do so long after. I’m pretty sure even if no perks were in play at all on either role, slugging and tunneling would absolutely still happen, because it’s just the easiest and quickest way to get a survivor out of the game, majority of the time. We’ve seen it in 2v8, we’ve seen it in chaos shuffle.
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I feel like you could finish the sentence "I need to tunnel because…" in pretty much any era of DBD's history. Fast Track is just the latest excuse. I've see a few in play, but not so many that it would be worth changing up a play style (obviously this is just my experience. Maybe others see it in every game, I just know I certainly don't).
That said, Killers were tunnelling and slugging in all my Survivor games before Fast Track was changed. It's pretty much been the case since BHVR completely abandoned their anti-tunnel and anti-slugging changes. I think that moment basically removed any ambiguity around whether or not slugging and tunnelling are intended game play mechanics and made it clear that BHVR tacitly approve of them. Killers that tunnel and slug are playing the game as intended, debate over. I think this is why a Survivor is tunnelled out in every one of my Survivor games these days, and why slugging the entire squad is a lot more common than it was.
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Because scenarios where i would end up winning before now ends up with 1 or 2 kills. Then i see survivors have it in the score board.
Fast track makes gen regression weaker because it's all based on total progress and fast track reduces that.
I'm not doom posting. I've given it a week, i've noticed a real impact in my own matches, and i don't like it.-17 -
rip double iri Myers the 0 hook king
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Yes it's true fast track isn't the only thing that has this kind of effect but it's infuriating that devs are continuing to contribute to the issue by adding more stuff like this.
I'm just pointing it out now whilst it's relevant so it can hopefully nipped in the bud.
Devs don't approve of these playstyles because they know that it's why people are uninstalling they just didn't go through with the changes because it would have done more damage to the game than these issues continue to do. Might be hard to agree with but i believe that was true.
Fast track could just be reworked to only work if the killer is tunnelling. Like if a survivor gets hooked twice in a row you gain 2 tokens. The condition right now where it's just "if survivor gets hooked" is just unfair.-6 -
Yes, every gen regression being literally shadow of its former self being better than fast track. Are we even playing the same game? Vigil, Shoulder the burden, Botany, Five moves ahead? Base kit buffs?
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Cause killers need an excuse to tunnel. 😂
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Yea cause survivors reseting in 5sec doesn't give them amazing efficiency right? God why people give pass to these perks is so odd but the second a gen speed perk is introduced everyone loses their minds.
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Because completed gens are permanent, health states aren't. Lots of killers don't really care about health states.
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I think Ressurgence was a slept on perk, at least in my pov. I'm only recently seeing people using Resurgence. Fast track, by the other way, is being far more used now than Resurgence after buff, having at least 1 or 2 people with the perk in matches evey time.
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They don't but we certainly shouldn't be giving them any more. I avoid tunnelling, i don't really enjoy doing it. But fast track doesn't really give me a choice, i am letting the perk get full value which i deem to be too much by spreading hooks.
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"Most killers", yeah Plague, Legion and maybe Ghoul.
Medkits and OG CoH were reworked for a reason.
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There's plenty of perks that do the opposite. Pain res grim embrace rewards you for not tunnelling, which is good. Decisive Strike Off The Record Blood rush disincentivise tunnelling, also good.
Fast track just gives survivors BNPs for the killer simply hooking. So… the counter is to keep hooking to a minimum… which is bad.-7 -
A high usage rate doesn't always idicate a strong perk. So many survivors use WoO but it's not extremely good or anything like that.
I expect fast track to go down in usage rate a bit as well.
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Not because of heal speeds. Because of the capability to self-heal. That is what was strong.
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And Resurgence doesn't give you that?
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Not really, you still need something else to finish the heal.
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Yeah, another player.
Besides I don't remember last time i had a lobby without a medkit.
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I just went through my 30-game match history. I found 6 whole people running Fast Track in my 19 survivor matches, out of 57 people (excluding myself). These were all team loses except for one tie.
In my 11 killer matches, it appeared once. I won that match.
If you want to tunnel and mori, do it. But don't blame a mediocre perk that very few people are using and act like you're a victim of circumstance. Is NOED fair? Deadlock? Batteries Included? These are all perks that passively reward the killer for survivors doing their objective.
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I'm just saying a perk is too strong and is bad design. I'm using my experience as an example/demonstration. Nothing more.
Not saying those perks you mentioned are particularly good design but they are far more conditional and have counterplay. Whereas fast track is very uninteractive in comparison.-10 -
If 4 slowdown Blight that wins 2k games in a row can exist, I don’t see why this can’t. This game has never been 100% balanced and I don’t think it was ever intended to be.
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If we are gonna be using this "well if THEY have this, then that means WE can keep this" argument, we'll get nowhere.
This is a crazy concept but you can recognize unfair things on both sides.
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Except they are still the most used perks in the game on killer side? Far from shadows of their former self with a new regression perk being added
So what's wrong with that being the case on the other side? Scared to have a taste of the same medicine lol That's all I hear
If gen regression can exist, so can gen progression.13 -
I'm seeing exactly 2 fast tracks per lobby but tbh i couldn't tell you if it's making any difference. maybe I suck, maybe it's my killer, maybe it's the map, maybe it's just rng, maybe it's Maybelline.
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I am all for some kind of consequence to tunneling that affects the actual pace of the game rather than just a BT. If that should come in the form of a perk, I wouldn’t be against that change. But I do feel many would feel the opposite, as any suggestion of gen progress being tied to hook states is generally not accepted by the community. The anti-tunnel update tried to do something like that and people threatened to leave in mass. And honestly, if that change went through and fast track gained tokens for tunneling, then based on what’s already happened I think people would then say you just have to slug, to deny the perk from ever getting value . And then we’re back to the cycle.
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yes I recognize things can be unfair on both sides. The difference between me and most people is that I accept this concept. If you want to win, bring strong things/pick strong killer/use strong strategies. For some reason, the dbd community fails to acknowledge that in competitive games, all sides can and should use strong things. Is nurse/blight/Kaneki etc that tunnel at 5 gens fair? No. Is a 4 man swf with 10k hours against a 500 hour ghost face fair? Also no. Do I expect the devs to perfectly balance for every mismatch scenario when it’s probably intended design? Nope. If you truly believe the devs don’t purposely allow some degree of mismatch for the sake of variety, I don’t know what game you all have been playing lol.
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Abd I'm saying it's weak, in my experience both using it and going against it.
What's the counter to Deadlock? Do one gen at a time? How about Cruel Limits, Bitter Murumur, or Tinkerer? Don't do gens at all? Lightborn? Very interacrive perk. Sucks about your flashlight build. Corrupt Intervention and Lethal Pursuer? Just don't load in, I guess. Many of these free-value perks are strong and meta, unlike Fast Track. I use two of them regularly myself. Both sides get stuff like this.
The conversation around fairness has been very funny. The anti-tunnel ptbs would have made this game a lot more fair. The outcry was so loud that the whole thing was completely nuked instead of adjusted. We voted against fairness. Even the pathetic extra 5s of BT is cried about regularly. This game isn't fair. At least 25% of my survivor losses feel unfair, whether it's matchmaking, killer's crutching on perks, or cheese strats making for hopeless matches. So I don't think I care about fairness anymore, when only one side gets to control it.
And where was the outcry over this perk's previous iteration that had the exact same reward system? Oh that's right, the CCs weren't screeching about it then.
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I saw it every match when the hype started. Still won most of my matches. It's been diminishing by the hour. People are trying the new overhyped toy then dropping it, just like I did. I expect it to go back to me seeing it here and there in a week's time. It was already a perk I did see a little bit of, and its conditions didn't change at all.
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I don't care about fairness
You should just have started with that. Very obvious you are disgruntled and bitter survivor main.
It's being talked about now and not before because it got changed…-10 -
I just had a look at my last few matches and FastTrack is not making the matches any faster
This match Mikaela and Yui had Fast track, the Match still went on for over 10 mins and the killer got a good amount of BP, its not like the match was rushed so hard the killer got nothing.
Here is another one, Leon had fast track in this one, The killer won this one, still got good amount of points and game went on for long time.
Now here is one where the match went fast, the killer didn't break 30k, but no fast track build. rick is running prove thy self deja vu and better together and I have a commodious and Deja vu
Another one where the gens where bumrushed but the one gen perks are me and yui with deja vu. I had commodious and Felix had a normal toolbox no ad ons.
Do you have example matches where fast track is in play? because I honestly feel like people are blaming fast track when other perks and items are the cause of the gen rushing. I saw a thread the other day with someone blaming fast track when it was more likely it was hyperfocus stakeout from what they described.9 -
Yeah, survivor main playing nearly double the killer matches as survivor matches. Currently only subjecting myself to survivor to get my season iri grade, then I'm done with it until the next one. I love when people default to the survivor-main thing because someone doesn't agree with them and they have no other arguments.
I look forward to you posting about all these unfair things that killers have and how unfair it is that they can decide how bad a time the other four players will have, since fairness is very important. You said it yourself, tunneling is a choice, and only one side has that choice. Very fair.
It's being talked about now and not before because it got changed…
It still made automatic progress on a gen solely through the killer hooking. It had the exact same conditions for tokens.
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Exactly. It’s not fast track that is causing havoc all of a sudden. The builds you see usually have other strong perks and items to supplement it. Fast track can be nerfed tomorrow and you still be able to rip through a gen with prove, hyper focus, stakeout, deja vu, toolbox with bnp etc. Even hens recent video is mostly gen perks other than fast track doing the damage, yet it’s position as fast track being broken lol. The real takeaway is that survivors should start focusing more on bringing gen perks/items rather than exhaustion/healing. It’s way more efficient when multiple survivors are crushing gens.
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I have no arguments for you because you have an overarching bias across all discussions.
Fairness is not important to me overall, i only bring it up in this discussion because i think this perk rewards the wrong kind of behaviour, thats what i think is unfair about it.
Again nobody brought it up because it wasn't relevant. It went unchanged since it's release. I imagine there was complaints about it's design then but balance wasn't taken as seriously back then.-10 -
As long as killers can stack slowdowns the perk is totally fine.
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My point isn't that fast track is ending games quickly.
It can make the last few generators unstoppable for a killer who spreads hooks.
This is the problem with permanent progress, it can't be undone. Even so, 6% additional progress on a gen just because the killer hooked someone is out of line.
Hyperfocus stake out has been a busted combo for a long time. And i don't like repair toolboxes-8 -
It can make the last few generators unstoppable for a killer who spreads hooks.Only If all 4 Survivors are running it at that point its the power of 4 perks, but do you have example matches where you being punished for hooking survivors due to fast track is the thing that lost you the game? or was there other perks and items that could of caused the rushing on last few gens. edit: I ask because I have not seen this outside of custom clips, 4 man just denying a gen.
If its one or two people spreading hooks is still better because you do not gain stacks when you are hooked and the person with FastTrack is being chased or on a hook or healing someone rather then using their stacks,
if you just tunnel you give everyone else uninterrupted gen time the ultimate gen perk and if you slug they may have perks like unbreakable instead of fast track to begin with.3 -
My bias is that I think killer is fine and survivor needs help. That's why I'm playing the role that's fine, where I have agency and control, instead of the punching bag role.
If this perk's problem is that it's design is bad and it's unfair, those things haven't changed. It still gets tokens from killers hooking while the survivor running it sits on a gen. It was adjusted, but the part people think isn't fair was already present. There's just a lot more CCs easily whipping their followers into a frenzy nowadays, and it catches fire all over social media regardless of what's actually happening in regular matches.
Fairness is not important to me overall
Indeed. My point exactly.
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I agree. I just meant that many don't complained about Resurgence because it wasn't a popular perk. Just recently i'm seeing people use it more.
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Am i supposed to run no quarter or dark arrogance? Maybe nerfed franklin's demise or sloppy or Stbfl? AGAIN, just becouse smth is used a lot/ a little it does not have to reflect its strength.
Killer perk diversity is underwhelming compared to survivor and they don't have freedom to run silly perks, unless one wants a 5min game.
So we are just going to ignore pain res being nerfed like 3 times? Or corrupt going away when a survivor is downed? Etc etc. Turn back the clock is the newest one we had in years and it isn't a gotcha moment that you think it is. Every single one, except it and surge, got nerfed. You could argue that stacking them is problematic on high tiers making them harder to balance.
I am not against gen speed perks existing, putting aside how fast track screws over the killers that spread hooks, it is too good and i see no argument in favour of survivors actually needing such a strong one just becouse Blight and Nurse exist.
Gen regression perks were and still are a band aid fix to stop games from being over in 5min, like BT was a band-aid to protect your unhooked teammates. Game itself isn't balanced around the killer not running these perks.
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The design was always bad, it just didn't matter because it was undertuned.
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Anti-gen isn't necessary at all. My killer matches run 10-15 minutes generally and I don't use any antigen. I only even stop to kick gens to trigger NtH. I still mange to win much more than I lose. It's honestly sad to see people going so hard for these boring, unfun builds all the time and thinking there's no other option.
And nerfed Franklin's works out pretty well for me:
I didn't even start using it until after the nerf.
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I also tend to spread hooks.
I no longer play low tier killers after this patch. There's no point.-4 -
I'm gonna be straight, if someone can win such matches without play a high tier then simply their survivors were not good or just one got a very favourable map/rng.
Not saying that you need slowdown for every match, hell the one that i played today on Dead Dawg Saloon survivors just gathered around me for no reason and i didn't even pressure them with ruin. Not a single gen popped. The thing is, that they were just not even decent. They struggled a lot and i got many free hits. Matchmaking is the biggest issue in DbD imo.
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I can't have favorable maps and bad players every match, nor can I be low MMR if I consistently win, since it would logically go up. Gen regress is so common now that survivors don't even expect my aura, anti-sabo, and/or undetectable builds.
And sure, I get potatoes. I also get great teams. I feel like everybody gets a random mixture because proper matchmaking is indeed nonexistent.
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You had 11k BP, and the survivors who escaped had about 18k... 7k of which is escaping.
You can't have had many hooks this game. Which not only means fast track did almost nothing, but you also only had 2 perks for most of the match for the same reason.
Hyperfocus/Stakeout and toolboxes did almost all of the work here. With the only real variable being how long you spent earning your power or dry kicking gens.
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