Why no Ghoul Nerfs???
So while it fantastic that Blight is getting the Nerfs to make him more balanced why is Ghoul not being made 4.4? After the immense amount of feedback and Devs during the Livestream were ignoring in chat about anything related to Ghoul.
Why ain't the Devs Addressing and ignoring the extreme amount of Displeasure of going against Ghoul? Devs please make Ghoul 4.4!
Comments
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Ken has been hit with a slew of changes, the revault that just occurred is a huge nerf for vaulting Ghouls, I think it's way too soon to ask for more nerfs after such a sizable change.
-2 -
I dont think he needs 4.4. Just actual cooldowns when vaulting/canceling power
-10 -
Stop with the 4.4, its outdated by todays game speed.
-15 -
Eh debatable if he gets moderate nerfs to his cooldowns then maybe but since he has high mobility and a free damage state id argue he should be 4.4
-1 -
Ghoul is not in a position right now where he's overperforming - we've also made adjustments and bug fixes to a few things, we don't feel he's in the position where a hard nerf is warranted at this time, the revault is now even easier to do, so it should make more counterplay against the Ghoul.
-2 -
Considering that we just had a Killer released who is 4.4 and also strong, it is quite obvious that you are wrong.
12 -
I definately think Ghoul needs to be looked at next, no one likes facing against them even was mentioned on the stream today lol chat was not wanting them in 2v8
6 -
yeah its a very weird trend going on unless the power is something like the the first something with mass movement speed i cant see a reason to make a killer 4.4 trickster is the perfect example of a killer not deserve to be 4.4
-4 -
Outdated, yet the most recent killer is 4.4 and was in the highest kill rates in upper MMR in the recent stats. A killer who hurls himself across the map in seconds can handle being 4.4.
16 -
My exact thoughts, good shtuff Mandy
-17 -
Fair enough I do agree with the adjustments being good, but have you played against dissolution using Ghoul? it kind of removes said counterplay. This is also really strong on Krasue also, there is still some interactions with this killer that can be really oppressive and these pain points are definately worth exploring.
I'm against nerfing a perk because of a killer, Ghoul's free hit basically makes this really easy to get value out of, pair that with the vault tech being one of the main counterplays, we have an issue8 -
But how do you determine if a killer is overperforming? In the recent stats we got, blight was not in top 5 kill rates in either bracket.
16 -
What I'd really love is for them to realise that mobility is really really strong especially if its mobility that can be used to harm a player.
Ghouls ability to just return to hook and remove endurance is one of those things, much like Blight is able to just do the same, or Nurse.
While the changes put forward today help with this a little, Maybe Ghouls power shouldn't be able to work on Endurance? Kind of Like Snug on Houndmaster grabbing5 -
id be curious to hear from yous if removing the vault injury has made any noticeable changes in ghouls performance. just for water cooler conversation
4 -
Honestly Mandy no it's not these adjustments and Bug fixes are not enough to make people feel he's more counterable and it should not matter if he's not overperforming he's extremely miserable to play against due to his core design and his Skill floor makes him to easy a Killer to win his power grants him extremely mobility and a free damage state he should be made 4.4 just like Blight is going to be.
Listen to the communitys feedback and take it back to the Devs please we are tired and sick of the Ghoul.
2 -
Nah, never mind the feedback given through the last year. Ghoul is totally fine.
THATS exactly why noboody has anymore hope in the devs.
1 -
It's all vibes based.
9 -
But how many people DC in matches against Ghoul compared to most killers? How many AFK? And does opponent satisfaction seem high in regards to this killer? How people feel is more important than numbers if something generates this much discontent. A killer with this much mobility shouldn't be so easy to use.
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legit the ONLY 4.4 killer I can confidently say should be 4.6 is Hag man. She needs SOMETHING
3 -
That is true he wasn't in the top 5 and yet based on feedback which they listened to perfectly are making him 4.4 and have to regen tokens on pallet break.
Meanwhile Ghoul who has the highest pick rate in the game with 8.1% and based on feedback everybody hates going against him hes miserable and yet Devs ignore the feedback completely and say he's fine. Like Huh? Make it make sense.
10 -
The stats they give us exclude matches with DCs. There's no way to know who the actual top 5 are with that limit in place.
But Ghoul was also the only one with both a high pick rate and a high kill rate. That's very telling.
10 -
he gets nerfed almost every patch simce release
-4 -
At a certain point, people would rather he be deleted than changed. Smerchant situation all over again, despite how much of a good place Ken is in compared to last April.
2 -
From what I've seen here, elsewhere, and what's been expressed by a friend, I don't think most people are ever going to be happy with Ghoul unless the leap attack is removed/reworked to feel less like a free hit.
8 -
not denying that the players feel there's issues with a character at all - Dissolution aside, which could very well be a perk issue and not a killer specific issue, hard to tell without looking at that closer, there's definitely some things which I think could be looked at more with Ghoul, but it's not something we're moving on right now. (I'm not saying never here, just explaining why it's not being done now).
18 -
I guess the cash grab must survive no matter what the playerbase explains. Cannot explain this otherwise. Devs are completely out of touch.
0 -
Ghoul is the only killer I hate but he's still an m1 killer. No m1 killer should be 4.4 (HAG!!!!!!!!)
-8 -
Well I'll at least give you guys credit you finally after 6 years realized Blight was a problem and gave him a perfect balance patch.
I hope you guys realize and move on the same with Ghoul Soon
6 -
Its definitely a core design people have a problem with maybe if they make it so you have to be Kagune Marked before you can take damage by Ghouls grab attack. That would make him more tolerable to go against.
1 -
They nerfed Haywire because it was broken on Singularity. Not to mention how many perks have been nerfed due to how they work with Nurse or Blight over the years?
6 -
I get you dislike ghoul but he got nerfed lately in trickster patch where his leap vault doesnt have hit ability as weskers and now survivors can vault right through him back and theres nothing he can do to stop it so ghoul now is lowest he ever been.
He is in good spot and compare to blight his power now is harder to use in chase than before due to that change, another huge thing is ghoul cant down you directly with his power so making him 4,4 would be torture because he isnt that great in getting down as spirit if survivors know what they are doing plus he is one of the most loopable high tier killers now.
Compare to blight ghouls power only covers 2/3 of blights power which is mobility and first injury but than ghoul cant down you directly.
-4 -
thank you . I know folks who gave up playing him on controller because be is alot harder on that imput . He has been nerfed nerally 30 separate nerfs since launch. He is in a good spot now on KB&M idk how anyone plays him on controller anymore tough.
-9 -
Making ghoul 4.4ms would be the most stupid thing ever. He doesn‘t get to use his power when too close to walls, he has no working antiloop, his power goes on cooldown when breaking pallets and he has no means to down survivors with his power at loops unlike blight.
-7 -
Simple Ghoul fix:
- Canceling power after a leap slows the Ghoul down significantly for 3 seconds, with a ramping movespeed over this duration, and locks him out from using M1 until the power token has replenished.
There you go, that simple fix should make Ghoul less frustrating to play against.
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Ghoul is just another killer in the game for me. Nothing that interesting it all depends on the level of skill and luck everyone has how the match ends.
-6 -
I don't think they could do enough nerfs that would satisfy the community. A lot of people see Ghoul as the new Skull Merchant. It's sometimes hard to even try to play against him in solo queue, cause you know, no matter what you do, people are gonna afk or run straight up to the killer to end the boring matches early.
0 -
He cant be 4.4m/s. Yes, he should get some changes, but only killer with an ability to down can even be considered to be that slow. (He can swing himself close to a survivor, but that would need to work on more loops for 4.4)
If you are on a standard loop (car or rock loop for example), you cant have a 4.4 killer who needs to m1. Thats like looping a Huntress or Trickster with no ammo. They cant catch up and they need to eat the stun, bc if they respect i make two more rounds.
-6 -
With your logic, Spirit is M1 killer and she is 4.4.
I don't think Ghoul should be 4.4, just that your reasoning is flawed.
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I'm not convinced the average player knows to revault against Ghoul so, if that is the argument for not addressing Ghoul, I'm not buying it.
He get's a free first hit and it looks god awful and sloppy, could also be a ping issue or bugs, I'm not sure.
Most teams give up or DC so to ignore him seems odd.
Overall, good changes have happened. I look forward to breaking up some of my "hyperfocused" builds.
3 -
Yeah the irrationally angry vocal portion of the community just want killers they dont like butchered so they dont have to deal with them by making them near unplayable. None of this is actually about balance, its about wanting easy games. People still DC against skull merchant, and shes virtually a powerless m1 killer, which says it all really.
-11 -
Nerfing every killer is not the answer to every problem. It will just make que times slower and make killers leave the game again. Both sides need tools to win. This is like asking for a perfect to windows of opportunity. Would I like that? Sure. But enough survivors would quit that it would make finding lobbies annoying.
-1 -
Give a mouse a cookie it will ask for a glass of milk.
-6 -
Yeah I don't really like that kind of balancing lol
-3 -
For Anti camp and anti tunnel purposes Ghoul does need some anti camp measures probably something like can't target with power the unhooked
0 -
Hold up this is a good idea
1 -
Ghouls Vault wasn't the only problem his core design is the issue his auto aim grab attack that alot of times can go through objects and when people are on second floors while ghoul is on the first floor.
His very short cooldowns and attack cooldown when landing I can go on and on about this but at the end of it all Ghoul is miserable to vs and needs to be looked at
5 -
Or a Bloodfavor Ghoul
1 -
True, that too
2 -
Ghouls vault created the most biggest problems since his release and now I would say here are none because his counterplay when you learn it has no counter from ghouls side.
Cool-downs:
- Charge-cancellation cool-down: 1 second
- Leap Vault cool-down: 1.25 seconds
- Used after vaulting with Kagune Leap.
- Leap cool-down: 2 seconds
- Used for both cancelling Kagune Leap and running out of Leap Tokens.
- First Leap cool-down: 2.5 seconds
- Used after latching onto survivors on the First Leap or if they are already holding a Kagune Mark. This cool-down requires The Ghoul to be within Grab-Attack range to activate.
- Grab cool-down: 3 seconds
- Used after performing a Grab-Attack.
From this he has 2 seconds window in which he cant attack after canceling power and all he can do is get close with slide from leap or leap without slide. For comparision blight has 2,5 second cooldown if he misses rush and 3 seconds if he hits his rush but the KEY difference is that blight can damage you with his rush, ghoul cannot damage you with his leap only first time but cant down you (damaging you is meant into downed state here for making this more clear), this isnt that problematic part because in order for ghoul to get that hit fast he needs to use his slide to be very close to you and there are ways how to prevent it same with wraith who without uncloak addons is few meters behind you if he starts uncloaking on your level when you keep running staright (objects make killers trajectory longer and make speed less effective than it is in open area).
For charges 4 seconds per charge when he is not enraged which is 8 seconds for two leaps one with slide effect and when he is enraged its 2,5 so 7,5 seconds for 3 leaps and two have slide. Compare to now blights 10 second whole power, many people forget there isnt many ways for ghoul to get downs he has mobility and first hit into deep wound but than he has not many tools to get down only use of his leaps which isnt easy to use on loops and his vault that can be countered totaly now.
-3 -
Balance aside, then, are you going to address any of the quality of life going up against this character?
Specifically the grab attack feels absolutely terrible to go against. Having the killer be 20m away off screen, and your survivor stops dead for at least a full second has me slamming the controls thinking I'm about to DC.
It's completely jarring to lose all control of your character like that. Knowing also that this is effectively a ranged ability with auto aim, is like if having huntress hatchets stunned you automatically for no reason. Worse, since huntress you have to actually aim.
It feels like absolute ass to go against that. Mobility isn't an issue, but why does this need to remove player autonomy like this also?
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