http://dbd.game/killswitch
Be Careful with What You Wish For
With a lot of people debating the diminishing return update and worrying about Gen Regression perks not being nerfed by it, I want to quickly get your attention to the following statement;
The HEALTHIEST meta in DBD is where killer regression perks are the strongest and where survivor's chase perks are the strongest.
And you could say it in reverse as well; the WORST meta is when killer's chase perks are meta and where survivor's gen rushing perks are meta.
Why is that? For the simple reason; nobody likes their chases being braindead, where killers just have some perk that effectively destroys chases, making them end quickly without too much counterplay. And for them, nothing is less enjoyable than seeing the generators pop, before they have barely had the chance to get any gameplay or interesting interactions in with the survivors, literally limiting how much of the game is being played.
That is why I want to raise your attention to this idea, for those who are set on destroying the killer's gen regression meta, which is a fight you truly don't want to win if you think about it more deeply.
So next time when you advocate for one thing, keep this thought in mind, when advocating against gen regression perks or against survivor's chase perks, you're going to be advocating for a meta that will be worse. (And the current survivor gen-rush meta is a prime example)
Comments
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The HEALTHIEST meta in DBD is where killer regression perks are the strongest and where survivor's chase perks are the strongest.
Anyone that remembers Genkick knows that's not true. Eruption CoB meta was beyond exhausting to play in and it wasn't even around for that long.
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That was not a perk issue, but a core gameplay issue, which has been solved with how many times regression can be triggered on the same gen.
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I'm gonna have to disagree with this, I think having strong options in both categories will be fine, diminishing returns doesnt mean at all that chase perks will be weaker, because they COULD buff them to compensate for that and make them enticing as options on their own.
To me it sounds like they want to make these perks strong on their own but be around at their current effectiveness when paired together as the idea develops.
Meanwhile killers who have haste like clown basekit, will get hit harder so they can't overstack said options. I don't think anything will be "Braindead" the consultants will keep them informed.2 -
I'm not against the idea of diminishing returns necessarily, like you mentioned with clown. I think it'd be great if they had more liberation designing perks, and not having to worry about a specific killer. However, I do believe a gen slowdown for killer is the most enjoyable META all around. By giving killers rewards to extend how much time they have to play the game all while leaving chases interesting. If our meta starts revolving around anti-loop it's going to become a whole less interesting
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That's fair, the issue is are they actually doing it the way we are talking or are they just applying the diminishing returns then sloppily and slowly changing values later.
I do have faith and I'd rather see change than stagnation, but I'm so used to good changes taking years to finally surface, hopefully this is the start of a new era for BHVR.
Last solid huge meta shake up was 4 years ago nearly, I'd like it to not take so long to make meaningful changes especially with consultants now.
As for Anti-loop we kind of already have that (before this patch) where the S-tiers have super strong anti loop powers and then they have the liberty of using gen regression also so you get the worst of both worlds. It's why I dislike Blight/Nurse so heavily.
On the other hand Dissolution+Blood favor on Ghoul, dissolution on Krasue is misery so you may be right2 -
How does nerfing healing builds help..?
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I don't support healing nerf builds; fun fact. (Unless it's possible to reach a critical value where they can heal faster than the killer can m1)
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This sounds way more reasonable than arbitrarily ruining build variety.
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Regression meta could never be the healthiest, cause its the worst that has happened in all those times.
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Pretty much, people just say it was because skullmerchant existed and these perks were strong but truth was there was no limit on gens how many times it can get regressed which made more problems and it was key part why genkick meta was so braindead and so strong because kill could regress gen infinite times with these perks and very long matches happened due to it.
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All a regression meta does is rewarding the killer for playing well and extending the game to give the killer more time to win, while leaving chases healthy, unlike something like an anti loop meta, which would be awful
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With top tier killers basically being speed or teleport killers, any kind of regression meta just makes the game more frustrating than anything else.
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Diminishing returns is a terrible idea. It completely removes the fun out of builds. There are bigger fish to fry right now.
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Diminishing returns can be absolutely great for the game, but that diminishing should only happen at problematic values, ones that even full healing builds fail to reach, so I definitely agree that the current Diminishing Return mechanic proposed is very bad, the general idea of Diminishing Returns could actually blow back life in certain perk designs, like older 2019 unrelenting, that had to be nerfed because it could be stacked with other perks doing the same thing
A healthy way of doing Diminishing Returns would be: Diminishing Returns & New Perk Keywords — BHVR(Which would leave any realistic healing build alone pretty much, without any diminishing)
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The things that will be nerfed by this are niche builds few people use. Stakeout, Hyperfocus, and Fast Track can still be played together without nerfs, just like DMS, Surge, Grim, and Pain Res will still work together. It won't hurt full aura or full undetectable. The problem is it simply limits things further and narrows the meta even more. We're gonna see the same boring builds over and over even more than we already do. It'll be Stakeout/Hyper instead of Resi/Deja Vu.
Who decides what's healthy and what's engagiing? Your healthy builds only work when they're evenly in play. I run no slowdown and I'm tired of prerunning Sprint Bursters zooming away as soon as they see my 4.4 killer. I don't know how you can argue that as engaging, nor should I have to run The One Aprroved Build to manage.
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diminishing returns doesn't even affect hyperfocus stakeout fast track only healing really but survivors generally use flex builds so it won't affect them that nuch
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I think that statement is coincidental. The game was the best when the game had the largest perk variety (including regression and chase) and when it was overall more busted. Was it balanced? No. But it somehow worked. The more they've cracked down on the 40/60 KR, it's only made the game worse and no one seems to enjoy it anymore.
You also have to factor in things like current map balance and Killer powers. Even if you promote chase, there isn't much you can do with embarrassingly weak loops and more anti-chase powers than not. The base game would also need a facelift to really promote chase again.
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"Be careful what you wish for." Yeah, that statement couldn't be any more true. Whenever a "problem" get solved, it gets solved in the worst way possible. I think Skull Merchant is a prime example (out of many). No one liked her, so they "reworked" her to be worse, and now still no one likes her...
And this will likely be another example of that, and I'm not even sure what "problem" they're trying to solve with this...
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I think it's honestly wrong that the Devs are even trying to finish that through a perk-stacking mechanic. Perks like Hyperfocus, Deja Vu, Fast Track all target different aspects of gens speed up. I don't think it's the job of a perk based diminishing returns system to solve that. We need a general "Minimal game length" mechanic that manages over the top gen speed over a prolonged amount of time
If a proper minimal game length mechanic that handles massive gen speeds existed, it would allow high gen speeds to continue to exist, but rather than achieving speeding up the minimal game length, all they would do is give bursts of speed during different periods over the match, which wouldn't be anywhere as gamebreaking0 -
I think when stacking the same effect may lead to reduced effectiveness, the devs will be free to buff the perks with lower numbers. Afterall now theyre getting auto-balanced when stacked.
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They could just adjust the perks singularly instead of adding a cap to everything. It will make the game more dull and less flexible on off-meta builds
There are definitely some builds that may be an issue (speed clown), but cutting everything is not the answer.
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