http://dbd.game/killswitch
2V8 Killer Criteria
First things first, I can't be too honest about how I really feel about Legion's removal from 2V8. I would probably get a warning from the mods for not being respectful, so I'll just say it's embarrassing to be a part of this community sometimes. I've lost a lot of respect for part of the player base that called for their removal and for BHVR for caving in to the demands. 2V8 is clearly not the goofy, unserious, anything goes party mode that I thought it was and besides playing to earn whatever FOMO goodies are on offer, I have no interest in playing it in the future.
With that out of the way, I thought I would try to evaluate if the Killers remaining in 2V8 actually meet the standards that BHVR have set out in the recent community stream.
Killers in 2V8 must be:
- Simple
- Fun for both roles
- Have strong usage & appreciation in 1V4
We can assume that all remaining Killers tick the first box, since they have been the easiest so far for BHVR to implement. Not all of them are simple to use, but the concepts behind their powers are simple enough for most players to grasp. So the evaluation will be on whether or not Killers pass on the second two points. So lets see if they do…
Trapper
I've not heard any objections to Trapper. He's basically the same in 1V4 as he is in 2V8. He's not especially fun to face or to play. His kit is too outdated for a fast paced mode like 2V8 but like I said, nobody objects so Trapper can stay.
Wraith
Wraith is probably the strongest and most accessible of the simple free to play Killers. He's just fine, I guess. Not too strong or too weak. But not very exciting, either. Like Trapper, there are no strong feelings for him either way on the Killer or Survivor side. He's just kinda there. Wraith can stay.
Hillbilly
Easy one this. Hillbilly is more or less equally loved in 2V8 by most Killers and Survivors. I didn't find him that different to playing as his 1V4 version, so he's not all that interesting to me. Nevertheless, Hillbilly can stay.
Nurse
Hardly worth stating the obvious but most Survivors do not enjoy facing Nurse. She deletes pallets and gets constant aura reads in 2V8, negating her only counter play which is to break line of sight. Nurse should be removed.
Huntress
Tough one this. A strong Huntress with 10 hatchets and regular aura reads can utterly destroy teams in 2V8 on an open map. She can down half the Survivors in seconds. This type of Huntress is not much fun to face but then most Huntress players are not that good. So I guess Huntress can stay.
Spirit
A complete disaster for the majority of casual players that enjoy this mode. She turns invisible and then you die. So fun. Without headphones, this Killer has zero counter play and I rarely hear of any Survivors that find this Killer fun to face. Spirit should be removed.
Blight
Survivors generally don't like facing Blight, let alone a buffed up Blight with a buffed up A-tier partner. Blight should be removed.
Ghostface
I hate Ghostie but most players seem to like him. Has the potential to be as equally annoying as Legion for his ability to make soft targets for a stronger partner to down. But since he is currently very easy to knock out of power, for now Ghostface can stay.
Oni
Oni is too strong in 2V8. In power he is impossible to out run. You will not make it to a loop (sometime not even with a sprint burst) and he can spin around to down Survivors. He always has power because his teammate keeps him stocked up on blood orbs. His slug heavy play style is also not enjoyable to many players. Fair to say, I think most Survivors do not enjoy versing this Killer. Oni should be removed.
Deathslinger
Deathslinger has had no complaints AFAIK. I really enjoy versing this Killer, he is one of my favourites. Not a popular pick for the Killer side, but maybe his buffs will change that. Anyway, Deathslinger can stay.
Executioner
Pyramid head is a tough one because you don't see enough of them in the mode to tell if the players like him or not. A lot of his strength comes from his ability to deny anti-tunnel perks, which don't exist in 2V8. I doubt very many Killers enjoy playing as him since he is rare, but there are also no objections so Executioner can stay.
Nemesis
Nemi seems to be reasonably popular with both sides. The only thing I've heard complaints about are his 4 zombies making it 6V8. Maybe he should lose a zombie but otherwise, Nemesis can stay.
Mastermind
I dislike this Killer intensely in any mode, but the player base as a whole seem to love him. His buggy power can sometimes ruin a match for everyone but that's whatever, I guess. Wesker can stay.
Chucky
I don't think there were enough Chuckys for players to properly assess if they want him in the mode or not. I barely saw any last 2V8. His ability to win mind games at loops for being so short and come out of nowhere with a Slice and Dice attack could be annoying. I enjoyed playing as Chucky but seems like nobody else did so I dunno… Chucky can stay?
Dracula
I think Dracula is relatively popular on both sides. His wolf mode is maybe a bit too strong but I've not heard too many complaints. Dracula can stay.
In summary -
Trapper, Wraith, Hillbilly, Huntress, Ghostface, Deathslinger, Executioner, Nemesis, Mastermind, Chucky and Dracula can stay.
Nurse, Blight, Spirit and Oni should be removed.
I want to make this clear - I think that no Killers should have been removed from 2V8. I'm assessing the Killers on BHVR's own criteria here and what I perceive to be the wider community feeling towards each Killer. I've tried to leave my own preferences at the door and be as objective as I can be, but maybe you guys still disagree with my assessments. Following the guidelines, what Killers do you think should be removed from 2V8 (if any)?
And what Killers should definitely never be added in the future? I'd say Ghoul, Skull Merchant, Clown, Krasue, Trickster, Knight, Doctor and Plague are automatically disqualified for being very unpopular with most Survivors. Hag and Twins are also disqualified, mostly for their low pick rates (Twins slug heavy play style would also be hated).
Comments
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This is the most objective post imaginable, it’s a work of beauty, needs more upvotes.
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Only worth killers to play as in 2v8 are those with good mobility,catching up to survivor power and some antiloop the rest is just not worth playing especialy when sprintburst on command is very liked by many survivors with short cooldown and maps are super huge with lot of safety so only killers that are woth playing are wesker,oni,blight,nurse,billy,wraith,spirit and dracula because they all have some solid power with mobility or antiloop compare to killers with very good antiloop like deadslinger and chucky they get hits fast too but they down have mobility or trapper/ ghostface are map dependent and can be easily countered in 2v8 or nemi who is super slow with tiering up his mutation and in combination with sprintburst and pallets repair his power which needs 3 hits to down isnt that great even as breaking tool.
Other killers tahn these with mobility arent worth using or are super undebuffed for this mode like slinger,pyramidhead and if I or most people have to waith 20-30+ minutes than I will run killer that is worth it not just goon around with trapper and get totaly slaped by survivors and making my teammate game even harder than it is.
Like it or not these are facts and what makes them facts is why you see many of the killers I mention and killers that arent that good you will see at minimun like pyramidhead.
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I disagree I really enjoy Huntress in 2v8 lol its works wonders against the sprint burst users. If the Deathslinger buffs help his range/reel speed , he is gonna be a lot better too potentially. I'd also love Trickster but will have to wait a while for that (I love playing ranged killers lol)
I think what a lot of people struggle to get their heads around is how much easier it is when you play with a friend you're actually communicating with, its so much fun and the snowball can happen so quick.
People just need to chill the heck out and realise they wont win every match lol, that's okay when that happens. I get its more frustrating coz you're in a 15m queue, but thats just it, you probably don't have the experience in the mode yet to make such statements.
When the stats site works again I'll show my performance, I've not done so bad on Huntress at all2 -
Yeah, personally I'm really disappointed that Legion was just straight up removed. It was my hope that 2v8 would eventually become permanent and that every killer (besides maybe some licensed ones who were being difficult) would be added.
I feel like 2v8 has become stagnant. The devs know that most of the community still loves it, so they no longer really try to significantly shake things up. Hearing now from Behavior themselves that they won't bother integrating every original character because they don't feel like it leaves a very poor taste in my mouth, especially since I tend to enjoy the less popular killers.
I used to adore 2v8, but nowadays my enthusiasm for it is at an all-time low. The first iteration of it is somehow still the best version.
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I hear Oni is getting nerfed for this upcoming iteration of 2v8. (Idk how, as I didn't get to watch the dev stream, but I heard friends mentioning it…)
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I'm ambivalent about legion being removed from 2v8. Maybe because I don't have enough info to go on. I only played the last 2v8 evemt (had a couple years break from dbd after chucky released) so i haven't seen legion in 2v8.
But if you asked me which killer I think would horribly unbalance 2v8, legion would be the first one that comes to mind. Superspeed, and getting killer instinct on every survivor in range during feral frenzy means they could keep practically every survivor injured and under pressure. Combo that with a hard to avoid killer with traversal like nurse, blight, dracula, chucky maybe even wraith etc and the game mode starts to look incredibly unfun for survivors. Makes for easy quick downs with huntress, one drops with stealth ghostie.
But on the other hand 2v8 can feel very survivor sided sometimes if killers can't secure quick downs. If you have maybe 4 or 5 good chase runners and everyone is genrushing when they're outside of chase then itt is a real struggle as killer. maybe something like legion is called for to redress the balance.
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Huntress is only good against sprintburst if they run in open area which makes her able to take that shot but if survivor has brain to keep track of both killers he wont do this if he can avoid run in open not to mention doging with sprintburst is super easy you can even bait oni and other fast killers near small objects. Huntress isnt bad but on tall loops she is super bad and she suffers from mobility issue due to her speed plus many maps have lot of line of sight blockers which makes her sniping terrible and very hard unless you get aura.
To second thing no offence but playing with friend and comparing it to playing alone with random is totaly off because in duo you have more info and can help each other when needed but playing alone is way harder and untiliable compare to being duo which makes some killers more playable (in duo with friend) compare to using them alone.
I think everyone in 2v8 is way more chill than in any other mode due to its none so competitive nature but if you playing alone and dont play killer you main like trapper or else than its not worth it with other killers, being in duo thats different story especisly when you have coms and comunicate between each other than even combos like slinger+ghostface are viable due to information teaming because of comunication.
Stats arent so reliable in 2v8 due to no mmr there so you can get potatoes more against you but ones you get good looper with sprintburst and especialy few of them which do gens zhan having killer with mobility (especialy when all killers with mobility in 2v8 have catching up potencial which is very helpfull even oni when powered) is night and day change.
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I'll go through the list you mentioned
Nurse: I've never found her an issue in 2v8, the map sizes really balance her out better. I almost never see her despite playing a lot of 2v8.
Blight: Same issue in 2v8 as 1v4, though not as extreme. Blight is fun, he's just too strong. I disagree that people don't like playing Blight, its more circumstantial than that.
Spirit: Well I hate going against spirit in 1v4 and 2v8, but not sure of the overall view.
Oni: The issue with Oni is just that his power needs more adjustment for 2v8 so its not constant in use.
So Blight - Oni, just need some tweaks. Nurse I guess I'd need more info. Spirit I have a personal dislike of so not a fair judge.
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No offence taken, that's the point I was trying to make is some killers thrive better when working with another person. It's like complaining about survivor Solo Q, yeah some stuff is more viable alone etc. So yes I agree with you
But like, I don't expect to win when I play a team mode solo, coz my co-killer could be very inexperienced for all I know and that would be unfair to them. Plus if I wanted to play alone I'd play 1v40 -
Yeah, it was my expectation that if BHVR could find a way, then they would bring that Killer into 2V8. It's fun for what it is and I'm sure it will remain popular, but I'm also starting to think it would have been better left in its first iteration and brought back only once a year. Then BHVR could have put those resources into developing more unique game modes for us to play. You are right, it has stagnated. It's kinda sad that we're looking at the final version of 2V8 already, with all the remaining Killers deemed either too unpopular with Survivors or too difficult for BHVR to implement. I think they will try to shoehorn a few more licensed Killers into the mode for the money, but I don't think we'll see Alien or Stranger Things until there is another Disney / Netflix IP in the game. It will never reach its full potential now.
Don't forget that Legion got some nerfs before being kill switched. The trouble with Oni is that his power encourages slugging to get the most value from a demon dash and we know this play style isn't enjoyable for a lot of Survivors. You can pick yourself up with your Survivor ability in this mode, so it's arguably not so bad but then there's also another Killer than can come along to pick up his slugs, so I'm not sure that makes much difference. He's also pretty much always in power, which is problematic. But then if you make it so that Oni's power takes longer to activate, nobody will want to play him because he'd be like playing a no traps trapper. It's difficult to get that balance right. If he continues to be complained about after the nerfs then he will have to be removed. All that said, it's an OTT party mode, nobody should care about any of this. Let the Oni have his fun.
I was surprised to see them add Legion so early in development tbh, because I knew they would be complained about (I mean, I do know why they added him with the Resident Evil 2V8 - it was a cynical cash grab to sell more Hunk skins). That said, it also surprised me to see Blight and Spirit added in the second iteration, because those characters are not exactly universally loved by Survivors either.
I did think that with the Legion having made into 2V8 they wouldn't ever be removed but here we are. I just wish I'd queued up for a lot more Legion matches instead of the hundreds of Survivor matches I played instead (I played only 17 Legion games in all).
I don't see many Nurses in 2V8 either but when I do see one, they are usually pretty good with the character. I doubt a decent Nurse is much fun for the Survivors who struggled against Legion, so she should probably be removed (ditto for Blight). Her low pick rate because of her difficulty disqualifies her as well.
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I get something simular is in 1v4 but truth is in 2v8 as killer you have more chase oriented game which is huge switch from most 1v4 games where you must be very tactical if you dont want to loose and mmr which puts you people around your level.
Like with billy he has only 2 addons basekit in 2v8 the better boots for turning with saw and green chain for less stun if you bump not much but he feels like moster if you know how to play him a little, very independent killer with who you can carry and has everything so it depends on with who you play and if its friend on coms than its totaly different thats why legion was problem because duo with coms could not only get huge slowdown from injuring many survivors but his killer instinct gave you best global info in that mode and you could call out the other part where is lot of survivors and made game more easier the game phase is very different than 1v4 mostly even when your killer pic sucks like trapper there is still other guy who can help you to get something done which in 1v4 isnt its all about you.
I dont expect to win every game but if I play alone and have to wait 30 minutes for a game than I want to play someone who keeps me in action and isnt terrible which are only the killers with mobility which can keep up alone in this mode. Other killers that lack the mobility or catch up power are easily slowed by many things and arent that worth running in game that takes ages to get.
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The players that answer surveys and discuss the game on reddit/twitter/forums are not "the vast majority". The vast majority of players are just playing the game and don't take part in these discussions. I'd be willing to bet that most DBD players don't actually care if Legion is in 2V8 or not (and some probably aren't even aware that they're never coming back).
It sounds to me like you think BHVR should prioritise what Survivors want for 2V8 over what Killers want because they are the majority. Fine, that's your opinion. But the game needs players willing to play Killer, too. So they kinda do have to think about what Killers want from 2V8 as well, otherwise there will be no Killers willing to queue up. With that said, it's obvious more players seem to want to play Killer because it's a unique experience. It's the main appeal of the mode for most of the players and now those players have one less Killer to choose from. Don't forget, Killer players also bolster the 2V8 Survivor lobbies because most of them will be playing Survivor while they wait. So in my case at least, I'll be missing from any future 2V8 survivor queues.
Yes, BHVR should listen to feedback but I also think the loudest voices aren't always the right ones to be listening to. Majority rule is also not a good way to design a video game.
Anyway, the point of my original post was to point out that other Killers should be removed from 2V8 because they don't meet the standards set by BHVR for the mode. It's not to discuss whether or not Legion should or shouldn't have been removed, because I've had those discussions before many times.
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Wraith meets my criteria for removal bhvr pls
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Yeah, I can't say I'm a fan of the insta-down Killers being in 2v8, and we currently have three of them (Billy, Oni, and Ghostie). But what can we do…?
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Understandable. He can zip around the map spreading injuries almost as quickly as Legion. But Wraith doesn't deep wound and make Survivors hold down a button for 10 seconds to mend, so I guess he passes the vibe check.
I honestly don't think I'll ever understand the common complaint about mending. 10 seconds feels like nothing to me.
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But that's the thing isn't it? We all have things about 2V8 that we don't like. Two of my least favourite Killers in the entire game are in 2V8 and I have a very high chance of seeing them at least every other trial. But I still played anyway because that's the price of admission to playing the video game. I'd put up with the things I don't like in 2V8 because I still got to enjoy the things that I did like (or at least I did before this happened).
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