http://dbd.game/killswitch
Fast Track and perk activation requirements
The dev notes for the Fast Track changes look like this:
Some people argued the permanent progress was too much, others said it punished killers for completing their objective. The first part stayed, the second is gone. According to these notes—despite the criteria for activation being the same for years—Fast Track was changed because the survivor should have to perform a useful action to gain a benefit instead of acquiring it through their opponenet's successes.
But what about other perks that activate not just through passive inaction, but through opponents moving their objectives forward, like Fast Track did with hooks? Is it really fair to be rewarded for failing? Coup de Grace, Fire Up, Rancor, Deadlock, Wretched Fate, Batteries Included, Bitter Murmur, Cruel Limits, and Dark Arrogance are all perks that activate from survivors completing generators. Is that fair? Should you gain things like vault blocking, aura read, and action speed increases because opponents did things correctly? Or is it somehow fine when a perk is weak or unpopular, like Fast Track previously had been?
Comments
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Fast Track is dead again, cause devs are out of touch with the game (and killer cries are their only used feedback).
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You forgot the granddaddy of all these perks, NOED.
It's troubling how much BHVR has just leaned into the preferred wording/arguments of the killer CCs recently. If the perk was overperforming and needed changing, just say so. But yeah, BHVR's statement reads like they didn't think it through.
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I don't understand why they can't revert it to its original state from when it was first released. It was a good perk; it didn't increase engine progress that much, and not everyone used it precisely for that reason.
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Absolutely! It seems like one rule for survivors and another for killers. Devs need to either equalize the playing field or admit that things aren't about what's fair, but rather which side complains more.
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I'm honestly at a point I'm caring less and less, the picking and choosing for these balancing rules is getting tiresome. They tell the community "We don't see an issue with this" and they change it anyways, I'm not even a Fast Track user and this mainly bugs me because there is plenty perks which this profile fits.
The balancing reasoning and the design choices in this game are so inconsistent I can't even get behind the logic anymore, they are about as consistent as the games health and how many bugs pop up every update.15 -
That's not true.
There's like seven hundred rules for survivors have to play and anybody who doesn't follow the killer rulebook for survivors deserves to be griefed, BMed, and abused, in match and out.
-9 -
But we're not talking about these silly made-up rulebooks, we're talking about the logic the devs use to make or edit a perk. I don't think either side should be punished for doing their objectives, but they are.
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Because Fast Track PERMANENTLY speeds up Survivor's Objective by doing NOTHING.
This is a serious problem because the faster the Gens, the higher the chance you escape. So bring Fast Track = More Escape.
All those perks you mentioned do not speed up your progress to win the game, that's why they're fine.
PS: Seriously, I can't imagine anyone with decent hours actually defend Fast Track.
-6 -
There are plenty of those too. Permanent haste? Not okay for survivors, totally great for killers. Second chance perks? A perk that gives an extra health state? Can't stack those. Not fair. But perks that instantly kill survivors and skip multiple health and hook states? Completely fine. Lose too fast? That's a penalty, only if you're survivor. Viewing opponent's profiles in the lobby? Gamebreaking for survivor, a-okay for killer.
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And Deadlock permanently slows down Gen Progression by doing nothing. And this is fine?
I guess someone who is proud of having chases which "only" last 90 seconds should know that…
@Topic:
We even have Basekit mechanics which reward failing. Bloodlust. Just get run around an unsafe Pallet, even if you miss a few times, after you reach Bloodlust 2 you will be guaranteed to get a Hit.
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Deadlock is not permanent it's temporary.
Permanent would be if the gen remained blocked for the rest of the trial.
Fast track removes that progress forever deadlock dose not block a gen forever-8 -
This will be a completely useless perk then. Just like what they did to the fog vial before, nerf to the ground in one shot. Do people remember how many nerfs that Ghoul received but he is still strong?
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Man, all those downvotes for an objective fact.
And people comparing it to Fire Up and NoeD are forgetting that NoeD can be cleansed and Fire Up's effect isn't gamebreaking and usually relies on stacking other perks.
Where as with Fast Track, you're getting free gen repair for doing nothing and it can't be reverted. I abused it with Stake Out for this very reason. I don't mind at all there's more the survivor needs to do to get that powerful of an effect.
That said, I would still like to see Stake Out just not work with perks like Fast Track and Hyperfocus.-3 -
TBH, i quite lost faith in this forums. I discuss with those i feel that might be productive and that's it. I and others have been receiving downvotes even when saying obvious thing - even neutral stuff that doesn't revolve around balance.
People have been defending absurd, specially after the 9.2.0 PTB. Hope the devs at least have good sense in what is good feedback and what isn't.
Comparing Fast Track - maybe the strongest survivor perk before the today patch - to perks like Fire Up or Cruel Limits is absurd. Even for Deadlock there is a very common counter that makes the perk almost useless.
If the fact that Fast Track were on 100% of the matches on Hens "No Rule" tournament is no argument, then nothing will be.
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1 fast tracked was not an issue, 4 fast tracks was huge issue
This type of trigger is simply problematic on survivors with how easy is to stack it. I think change to the trigger was good, but % should be higher imo.
You just can't have triggers in type of "whenever something happens on map" for survivors, because it's impossible to balance.
You know how broken Inner healing would be if it was "whenever totem is cleansed" as Secret Project has it.On killers you need to balance perk for 1 player and you just have to deal with classic Nurse vs Trapper problem.
On survivors you can't balance global effect when survivors can you use it once, or 4 times. You do it by making it personal trigger, so it becomes more limited resource.Only other way is to simply make the effect weak….
-1 -
Who cares about Hens and his stupid tournaments? Those are coordinated swfs. Of course fast track is gonna be overpowered under those conditions. My thing is the game shouldn’t be balanced around swfs because most of us play solo and a solo survivor with fast track is not about to make a noticeable difference.
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-adds to list of things killers got nerfed because of instead of accepcting the perk, they went and had a big whinge about it-
Boy I love the community 🥴 maybe surviours should go whinge about turn back the clock. No new shiny things for killers either.
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If you want the game to be balanced for solos then the power level of solos and swfs needs to push closer not further. Having a perk like Fast Track exist where it is too strong in swf is simply a problem for the entire game.
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What about Skull Merchant?
Or release Kaneki?
Or old Eruption?
Or thanatophobia, ruin, facecamping with bubba, off-the-hook downs, gen kick limits, the call of brine/overcharge combo, ultimate weapon, STBFL's M2 change…
There's more than those but I hope I'm making a point here. Unbalanced things deserve to be complained about. If TBTC is broken, it should be tuned. That said, I don't think TBTC is broken because it requires LoS and the regression isn't that much.3 -
so cripple swf? but everytime someone advocates it people start whining how we shouldn't punish people for playing with their friends
-6 -
Good, now lets move on to nerfing the rest of the meta perks across both sides so that people actually have to use their brain to play.
Oh, and btw, the perk is still good, just not absurdly busted anymore
-11 -
Killlers had a spree last year with getting things they dont like getting nerfed or just straight up removed. Most recently killers have been the vocal side that's been able to get things changed / canned based on just complaining.
Side note but ken is horrible example of survivors complaining and something getting it nerfed bhvr dug their heels in for months with that killer to do even minor changes and he still needs them.
I don't think TBTC is broken but I also don't think fast track was to the extent people where complaining about it. I have honestly not seen a match in pubs where fast track is this insanely broken perk like people make it out to be.
"guys fast track made me loose the game"
-shows match with 4 BNP toolboxes or multiple deja vu which would of effected gens way more-
or all the short content of "Fast track is so op guys" meanwhile its always clip where killer is not even trying and they are doing it for the clip OR clearly other gen perks are doing the heavy lifting.4 -
Are there even anymore meta perks? Honestly, it feels like BHVR is afraid to give either side strong perks.
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Its where the real power of perks and killers is shown.
Hag is top tier against bad players in SoloQ. Should Hag be nerfed?? SoloQ just needs Kindred basekit and that's it.
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An eye for an eye makes the world blind.
Stop thinking in Us VS Them and think about the overall health of the game. I say Fast Track needed this change because I used it first hand and could see it was not healthy.2 -
Define what you mean by the "health of the game". Because you can argue something like Fast Treck (pre-nerfs) was needed in DBD. Survivors don't have the snowball potential killers do. Killers can play bad and still win a game. If you lose one of your fellow survivors at 3 gens then the killer has basically sealed the win. Imo, survivors need something that can swing a game the way killers can. Because the idea that a game can be over at 3 gens just cause you lost one teammate? That's bad game design.
-2 -
You do know there are 4 survivors and 1 killer right? If all four survivors ran old Fast Track, one hook by the killer gave survivors 9 tokens total. 1 hook and the killer can lose 9% progress across the board. Kind of does sound like getting punished for doing their job doesn't it? Sounds like it would be better to slug survivors instead of hooking them… Maybe it's a good thing to not punish killers for hooking instead of slugging.
This change simply gave the tokens to the survivor than goes for the save. It's basically a refund to not hold M1 on a gen but instead help a teammate.
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And that somehow makes it okay to have perks that have no counter on the non-power role?
Killers have a bigger snowball potential because they're the power role. And survivors have a massive advantage if they play well. You have good points on the game's flaws, but you can't fix flaws with perks. That needs base game adjustments, not bandaid fixes that create issues.A good example is how long Borrowed Time was in the meta until it became partially base for the game.
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" Killers can play bad and still win a game."
Oh my. I think I might have laughed a little at this one. This doesn't remotely hold any truth.
-4 -
Interesting how many people just went right to talking points about how strong Fast Track was (I disagree) but that's not what the post was about. I want to know why an activation condition the perk already had was suddenly found to be unfair, and when this fairness epiphany will apply to other perks.
I don't care about this perk. I played against it and won;I played with it and got almost no value, and took it off pretty quickly. It was situational and conditional and I like guaranteed value in my perks. The perk isn't the point though. It's the conditions around which this nerf occured, the supposed reasoning, and the double standard the nerf presents.
Post edited by cogsturning on5 -
What’s being missed here is that the new version is effectively pointless. You will end up losing more time than you gain back by having to run across the map to maybe make the save, running back to your gen and then having to hit a great skill check. 5% is about 5 seconds saved but you spent more than 5 seconds to charge the token. If you just stay on the gen and let’s say use a toolbox, why would you even run fast track at that point?
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What did I say wrong? Go on, tell me. Don't act like it's not possible to play terrible and still get a four man slug. I do it all the time. I see streamers do it all the time.
Meanwhile survivors can't play terrible and expect to finish all five gens. That's just not something that happens. But I see you're way to biased to ever admit this.
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By that logic things that grant permanent Haste, Kills and progression blocking and slowing for failing on the Killer side is not good for the game either. So I expect, Noed, Batteries, Rancor, Deadlock to be massively nerfed as well
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NoeD can be cleansed
Batteries has a range
Rancor only effects the obsession and is active at the endgame
Deadlock isn't permanent
Are we playing the same game?-3 -
I don't given in to stories. I tell the truth.
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Still by your own definition "permanent" and rewards for failing your just looking for ways to justify your one sided bias
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Wasn't my definition of permanent, that's quite literally YOUR definition of permanent you're trying to push. Fast Track gives permanent progression akin to how BNP works.
And for the record,
Keep claiming I have a bias.
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Okay, sir. I think you're just really, really, really, really, bad at this game. Getting a four k despite playing a bad game should be a common experience for any killer. But it seems like you're very bad at DbD.
-6 -
ThIs community and its CC deities refuse to let the base game receive meaningful changes. Even this forum keeps repeating the mantra of "just bring perks" every time a problem is brought up, and the devs keep making perks to do so. The opposite example of yours is Elusive going form basekit in the ptb to an element in newer perks. This is no longer the game it was when BT became basekit. If that happened in modern DbD the social media outrage would can it immediately.
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I still think the elusive situation was such a missed opportunity, so I'd have to agree with you there.
-2 -
Yeah, I'd like to see some consistency from the developers please
11 -
Whatever you say good sir.
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People complaining about perks "rewarding losing" and "supporting selfish gameplay" should get their heads out of the clouds.
So what if you gain a small benefit to offset the fact you are losing hard? If you are losing that hard, then not even Rancor is saving you. If everyone goes down 5 seconds into a chase, not even Fast Track can save you.
Fast Track was strong. Sure. But the theme was never the issue because this perk was like this for years. The BNP effect was the issue.
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Maybe if you are in a swf and the dedicated unhooker.
In a regular game, teammates unhook before you can get there and you get nothing half of the time.
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The big problemof fast track is not that it does punish Killers for success, the problem is Killers which go out of their way to tunnel are getting punished for it.
As Survivor main which is guilty of hitting great skill checks quiet often (9/10) Fast Track was a good perk for me but I have to say if the best counter for a perk is to tunnel the hell out of me or my mates something is wrong.
I think most of you which aren´t blindly follow the "BHVR caters only to one Side" train will agree that perks which promote unhealthy game styles shouldn´t be meta.
I would prefer fast track if it would give more tokens when survivors are hooked in a row not if the Killer goes out of the way.
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Yeah that last part is my point. It was like this for years. It's always "punished killers for spreading hooks". No one had anything to say then, and the permanent part is the part they kept, and now seems like everyone is fine with that aspect because the perk sucks now. Which goes back to the question: does fairness only matter if the perk isn't trash?
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Yes.
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I think the issue was that Fast Track was honestly pretty strong. Gain stacks passively through your teammates getting hooked that could be cashed in for perma progress on generators is a pretty huge equalizer in the flow of a match, especially if multiple people are running it. Killer's "losing" perks either give you incrimental buffs or specific effects at the end. Like sure, Fire up gives you a pretty nifty buff but you don't actually get the full value out of it until all the generators are done and that's when you're at your weakest. It's just not comparable?
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You can make this argument about Shoulder, things like Slippery Meat + luck offering, even Power struggle. But Fast track doesnt need an swf. You didnt need coordinated play to get value from it. I think you confuse swf with 4 good players. Bc bad players couldnt get any value of it if the killer isnt nice and spreads hook.
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They nerf 1 clearly overtuned survivor perk and some people are hysterical, meanwhile survivors just got another brand new base kit feature to see your teammates perks and people are still complaining that the devs only listen to killers? This is absurd.
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