http://dbd.game/killswitch
The draft for Boon: Steadfast sucks
So, I'll try my hand at making a draft too.
To catch up those who aren't aware, here is what one of the Grimoire perks should look like:
There's no denying it sucks, numbers wise and also, imo, conceptually.
So, here is my alternate idea:
Boon: Steadfast
A boon that makes a single generator's progress permanent.
While next to a Totem, press E to bless it.
- 10/30/50% of current progress of the generator closest to the Boon becomes Locked. When the killer snuffs out or breaks the boon, or the boon changes locations, the generator loses the Locked status.
- After the boon is snuffed, blessing it again will take 100% longer. If the same boon totem is snuffed out twice, the totem breaks.
Locked generator progress cannot be regressed until the boon granting this state is removed. The progress still counts towards the "total charges" of the generator for perk reasons.
I know this may be too strong, but it's a quick draft, and also not a version that will probably get used.
Comments
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If it's gonna be permanent progress except it's not permanent at all, that's not really worth a perk slot either, don't you think?
It should be:
Every great skillcheck converts an already completed charge to permanent. Repair speed penalty removed.
It'd be incredibly niche, but workable.
9 -
Mmm it's like a it's permanent only if the boons is still up but killers cleanse boons so it's not really good idk unless they buff boon ranges I don't think this will work
Post edited by BongoBoys on4 -
Well, depends on how you look at it.
Locking down a gen that's on 80% progress, for instance, is really beneficial.
The reason I made this permanent/not permanent state for gen progress is simple: pure permanent progress is a nightmare to balance. Look at Fast Track and Weaving Spiders. One was broken beyond words, and the other has 3 severed downsides to offset the strength of perma-progress.
-1 -
Locking down a gen that's on 80% progress, for instance, is really beneficial.
Not if the killer can just walk over, kick the boon, and then regress as normal, that's just a minor annoyance.
The reason I made this permanent/not permanent state for gen progress is simple: pure permanent progress is a nightmare to balance
Yeah, but if you're going to invent 'permanent but not actually' with such a trivial disable condition then what's even the point? You'd be better off doing something entirely new at that point.
10 -
that's a broken boon even if it's 1% progress because it's permanent i'd just run gen progression perks to compensate i'm talking about the original boon
your changes make life infinitely worse for killer since if they run pain res or surge and don't have time to check the gen the survivors have 50% progress to go back to
-11 -
I accounted for the situation you are mentioning.
The charges are still in the gen, the pistons would show that there is, and perks like Pain Res would still cut off the exact same amount it does normally, you would just be unable to regress it past a certain point.
-1 -
you didn't though. what i'm saying is if you bring surge or pain res and don't check that gen to see if the boon is near the gen (which wastes more of the killer's time) the survivors have a free gen at 50% also it indirectly hurts deadlock because it'll probably hit that gen first
-3 -
The boon doesn't block ALL regression, just regression past a certain point. The only way that leaves the gen at 50% is if the gen was 100% done already. Pain Res would never kick off enough charges to hit that point.
5 -
Hey there! You mention not liking this perk from a values and conceptual POV. Would you be able to elaborate on what specifically you're not liking about it?
-4 -
Um, its a killer perk?
Literally I was a expecting this morning to see someone from BHVR admit there was a typo in the perk release, that's how bad it is.
I'd really like to know a situation where BHVR thinks this perk is actually beneficial to the survivors. If you took the same design and made it a killer Hex perk it would be closer to being usable in the game.
23 -
You have to spend a bunch of time booning, and then cut your gen repair speed in half. One percent extra progress on exclusively great skillchecks is never going to compete with that, no matter how permanent it is.
Not to mention that one player can force this terrible trade-off on others, because it's a 'boon'.
14 -
I appreciate the detail. I'll be passing feedback along to the team, so context like this helps characterize what folks are feeling.
Out of interest, if you had to point to one aspect of this perk that feels like it'd cause the most friction (i.e. extending the effect to other Survivors via boon; the time investment needed to get value; the speed compensation), what is it?
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Imo, it's mostly the boon aspect of giving other survivors the perk debuff. If it was a personal perk that only gave yourself slower progression for a bonus. It would be bad, but not problematic that you would have to worry about other survivors running the perk just to grief you.
9 -
Hello!
So, conceptually, the part that sticks out the most is the decreased repair speed.
I assume the intention is to increase the amount of chances this perk would have to proc, but it causes more problems that it fixes.
Firstly, it makes the perk a troll one. A newbie or a spiteful survivor can tremendously screw over the whole team by placing the boon at the wrong place/wrong time.
Secondly, the time sink outweighs the reward. Yes, I may be able to get 10, 12 or even 15 skill checks, but I am also doing a sixth gen.
That's it from the top of my head.
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I mean I want to answer 'everything'.
The primary is the gen debuff. Math wise it is really difficult to come up with a situation where going this much slower on a gen is not just worse, but far worse.
Secondary, that survivors have to set up a boon to do it makes it more absurd. There's a reason this is being compared to Invocations - BHVR has designed a perk that survivors can spend time on to then give the killer an advantage.
Third, being able to force it on other survivors is just awful. It's a perk that not only has potential just in a SWF, its outright detrimental to soloq.
Fourth, the progress gained is inconsequential. You have to craft some pretty extreme scenarios to get 1%'s on great skill checks to actually have an impact.
10 -
i dont like the permanent progress and it should be get rid of like they did with killer incapcited debuff (Old eruption) fast track has shown what a issue permanent progress is and i would argue is much unhealthier for the game
I would suggest for this perk is that when the gen in the boon range it slows the gen regression so instead of 0.25 base regression it wil be like 0.15 which as a killer focus player is painful for me to suggest but at this point anything is better than permanent progress
-6 -
I feel like I imagined this perk moreso protecting your generator progress from regression events as opposed to giving it permanent charges. Maybe something like, generators within the boons radius cannot be kicked by the killer until the boon is snuffed or something instead, as an alternative to blastmine. Reveals the aura of the boon when within 3 meters of a protected gen.
8 -
The difficulty is that two of those elements go hand in hand.
I can say that the boon time is not the problem.
However, -50% repair speed is an absurd negative that killers would love to be able to inflict on survivors. That makes this perk an abject negative and renders it unusable, even if it was solely affecting the person that brought it.
Giving survivor a perk that can force this drawback on other survivors, though, is a disaster waiting to happen. You wouldn't create a perk that allows survivors to make other survivors exhausted, or broken, or blind, or any other number of status effects, so effectively removing another survivor's ability to do gens is unacceptable.
14 -
It makes gens 50% slower for very little reward. No one ever asked for a survivor perk that makes gens slower. That's what killer perks do. The only way this could make sense is if the boon also causes a constant stream of skill checks, making it both mechanically challenging to get its value from and potentially worthwhile.
19 -
I'm just happy that the bird scaring perk lost I'm sorry yall
-3 -
I'd absolutely run 50% slow down as killer even if it gave a small amount of permanent progress.
15 -
As it is right now, it's the fact that a random survivor can force me to have molasses slow gen progression against my will. That's a killer effect. If a perk has a downside so bad that I personally would never run it, I don't want the downsides to be able to be forced on me by another player.
It's like killers complained about ONLY being able to run 4 gen regression/slowdown perks and BHVR was like 'hold my beer.'
13 -
Thanks for hearing me out on that and laying this all out! I'll add this to the feedback we're gathering.
6 -
This perk design just screams "We want to have our cake and eat it too" as in, we want a perk that "buffs" survivor's ability to repair generators but we don't want to upset Killer Players who (Rightly so) think generators already go too fast.
So they design a wishy-washy perk that HAS to have a big downside to it, forever relegating it to the dustbin of perk hell with the likes of Scavenger, Calm Spirit and other survivor perks that have built in downsides
It needs work, a lot of work to be even close to decent.
I think BHVR need to scrap this focus on "permanent" gen progress. It is a failed concept that Killer players hate and Survivor players either ignore or go all in on to the point of breaking the game because it's only worth doing it if you go all in. There is no happy medium.
7 -
Found a succinct way to put it:
For the health of the perk, the -50% repair speed is the key problem.
For the health of the game, the fact that trolls can force it on other survivors is the key problem.
13 -
I personally would prefer it to consume the boon when a generator damage action is used stopping it from taking damage, like a counter for turn back the clock/pain res
Thats sort of what I was expecting by "Permanent", not slowing down the gen… this is going to cause so much drama with those who bring it.0 -
it removes up to 50% so whatever above gets regressed to 50 and doesn't dip under. if you use a perk like surge or pain res where you don't have to actively check the gen and pressure somewhere else they're kinda screwed especially since dbd is a time based game
-7 -
This situation requires you to have already regressed the gen from 99% to 50% by other means before hitting it with another regression. Also, at this point, Pain Res likely -can't- hit it.
1 -
Conditions conditions conditions.
Steadfast is very bad because of the values and the big amount of conditions just to use this perk. First you have to spend time booning then you get a -50% repairing penalty which makes a gen take 180 seconds which is 2 gens worth of time but in 1 gen
Finally you only get 1% of permanent progress if you hit great skill checks and unless your running a full skillcheck spawning build (Tambourine and Deadline with a toolbox) you ain't getting enough value for it it's way more a detriment then a benefit to use.
If you want this perk to be okay at best remove the repair penalty and change the great skillcheck requirement to basic good Skillchecks
5 -
Agreed unless you add a secondary effect which increases skill check spawns by 50% it ain't gonna be good
3 -
I also really want to point out that in solo Q, some people have accessibility issues with skill checks as it is (limited motorskills and/or eyesight) and a team mate using this and it applies to said persons gen, it's going to be really hard to get value from this without stake out or the like.
8 -
Honestly, this is a KILLER PERK. Seriously, I say this as a P100 Pig Main. Unless the survivors are in a dedicated 4 man SWF that knows one or more of them are running this perk, it's very likely to screw over your team more than help them, as most survivors are not consistently able to hit great skill checks.
Also, don't get me started on the recent influx of "permanent generator progress" perks. Not a fan, but this one I could deal with, since it really is a killer perk.9 -
no it just requires it to be above 50% when it hits 50 it goes into locked status meaning you can't kick it and the gen acts identically perk wise as if the gen was at 0 so if it was at 50% and locked any remote gen regression wouldn't give a notification or proc regression perks
so it's a nerf to surge pain res and deadlock and if you're running deadlock with surge that would be the only way to actually know since deadlock would only proc on that specific gen meaning your still vulnerable to gen rushing since it's procing on that specific gen and the killer has to waste time walking to that specific gen searching and snuffing that boon then kicking the gen instead of pressuring the other gens that survivors are working on and if the killer does that the survivor will just replant the boon and more time is wasted for the killer
-5 -
no it just requires it to be above 50% when it hits 50 it goes into locked status meaning you can't kick it and the gen acts identically perk wise as if the gen was at 0 so if it was at 50% and locked any remote gen regression wouldn't give a notification or proc regression perks
I'll be honest, I cannot follow what you are saying at all.
7 -
honestly my biggest worry with the perk is it's potential interaction with the hyperfocus/stake out combo.
-3 -
the gen cannot go below 50 it will be locked if it's above it will regress until the gen is at 50
how i see the locked status working is it will treat a gen a 50% like it's at 0 or a gen that isn't regressing so any regression will not work on it so you won't get notifications and perks will not work on it unless the boon is snuffed
It is a nerf to surge and pain res because if you do not check the gen from the killers perspective it will look like that gen hasn't been worked on due to the locked status
Deadlock also is psudo affected by this since deadlock doesn't really counter gen rushing if survivors just leave the blocked gen alone and deadlock will also show a locked gen due to it being at 50 at least
the problem i have with this perk is it's too strong. a gen with these conditions waste so much of the killers time that you need to be a mobile killer and makes low tiers worse
-4 -
If it stays like this, that combo will be the only thing that would be able to drag it out of F tier.
8 -
the gen cannot go below 50 it will be locked if it's above it will regress until the gen is at 50
So I think you grossly misunderstood @SoGo 's suggestion.
They aren't saying the boon will lock a gen above 50% progress at 50%. That boon will lock in half of the generator's progress. Which means that a gen that's at 60% will only have 30% locked.
Which means that a gen will only lock to 50% if its total progress is… 100%. That means it'd only hit 50% lock if the generator was already completed, but got stopped at the very last charge and regressed allllll the way back down to 50%.
So the only way the situation you describe would arise is if the gen already lost 50% total progress and THEN got hit with more regression.
It is a nerf to surge and pain res
It's not a nerf, it's a counter. And since it's a survivor perk, it does eventually have to do -something- you will not like, it can't just be a dud and do nothing.
the problem i have with this perk is it's too strong. a gen with these conditions waste so much of the killers time
The chances of you actually losing regression or perk procs to this are incredibly low and it wastes a lot of survivor time due to the booning time invested.
8 -
I always wanted that one Jonah perk Corrective action that fixes missed skill checks to also work for the person who equipped it.
That way people with disabilities can use it
2 -
>They aren't saying the boon will lock a gen above 50% progress at 50%. That boon will lock in half of the generator's progress. Which means that a gen that's at 60% will only have 30% locked.
>10/30/50% of progress of the generator closest to the Boon becomes Locked
it's a blanket 50% progress so i assume it's 50% total progress of a gen since it was never outlined 50% current progress of whatever charge it happened to be on and if this happened in game it would probably be 50% total progress of a generator too
-5 -
It was actually meant as 50 of current progress.
Please, stop trying to pretend like you know my perk draft better than I do.
What I intended with this draft was:
Once the boon is up, 50% of the current gen progress becomes Locked.
If the gen gets hit by a regression event, for example Pain Res, if it has 70% progress on the gen and 35% is Locked, Pain Res still reduces the gen to 50%. The progress would still be displayed on the gen, so even if you Lock 40% of progress and the killer regresses it as much as they can, the 40% remains AND IS STILL VISIBLE. In fact, it would probably show that the gen is affected by this, if this was implemented.
I am not talking about removing charges with this perk, this is why I invented an entire new status.
Also, eyes exist. With the increased visibility of pistons, and the lessened fog, you can see gens clearly from afar. In case of Surge, this is double the case, as you are already close.
To finish, can we stop having arguments like this about a FAN draft that will never exist?
-1 -
It doesn't? That's wild
0 -
BNPs are fine, but everything else that removes perma gen progress are, like Elusive, a really bad idea BHVR is starting to insert through small cracks and slowly so people don't notice until it's too late.
Elusive for example is gonna be previous Distortion 2.0, but much worse since it hides EVERYTHING instead of just aura.-2 -
can you specify current between current and total progress since you never specified and if you read it it says it still counts towards total progress
Boon: SteadfastA boon that makes a single generator's progress permanent.While next to a Totem, press E to bless it.
- 10/30/50% of progress of the generator closest to the Boon becomes Locked. When the killer snuffs out or breaks the boon, or the boon changes locations, the generator loses the Locked status.
- After the boon is snuffed, blessing it again will take 100% longer. If the same boon totem is snuffed out twice, the totem breaks.
Locked generator progress cannot be regressed until the boon granting this state is removed. The progress still counts towards the "total charges" of the generator for perk reasons.I know this may be too strong, but it's a quick draft, and also not a version that will probably get used.if you want to include this
What I intended with this draft was:
Once the boon is up, 50% of the current gen progress becomes Locked.
please edit the post to reflect that instead of treating me like i'm taking you out of context since the former reflects total and you never implied current progress
>Also, eyes exist. With the increased visibility of pistons, and the lessened fog, you can see gens clearly from afar. In case of Surge, this is double the case, as you are already close.
indoor maps and multi floor maps exist. so if your using a perk that can go through walls you won't need to check the gen
>
To finish, can we stop having arguments like this about a FAN draft that will never exist?
it's a discussion on how this fan change would work i just disagree with the changes
0 -
It doesn't its only for other people's mistakes on the same gen
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