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Fixing Genrushing FOREVER (The SECRET to Balancing DBD)

AlwaysInAGoodShape
AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,608

With Fast Track having gained massive popularity, as well as many other genrushing builds so have come a wave of bad solutions that have come to fix these.

Some may believe Diminishing Returns is supposed to fix it the plethora of genrushing combos, like Fast Track, Hyperfocus & Stakeout, etc, only to notice that such combos aren't much addressed at all with these types of changes.
Now funnily enough, it isn't even an inherent gen-speed that is the problem. There is nothing wrong with gens flying fast for some shorter durations to help survivors have an attempt at a comeback.

But what really is the problem then with Genrushing? That is actually quite simple, and that is what we will solve in this post forever:

THE PROBLEM
The true problem with genrushing (and hell, even quick healing perks), is that they can push the minimal game-length to unhealthy degrees for the game.

Now that you understand the problem, you realize it isn't the fast gens that are the problem, but as they frequently result in the minimal game-length being pushed, they continue to cause issues all around.
So how do we fix it?

DBD NEEDS A MINIMAL GAMELENGTH MECHANIC
The responsibility of a minimal gamelength mechanic is to ensure that no normally game accelerating mechanics (like genrushing perks) are actually able to push the minimal gamelength further down, so that such perks only merely contribute to faster bursts of speed for comebacks among other things.

But how on earth would we achieve that? Now of course, you could create a really complex system that somehow tried to counteract all gen-speeding perks, or something that blocked gens if they were finished too early, but that would not only be more difficult, it would also not be elegant.

So instead, how can we implement a minimal gamelength mechanic in a healthy way that is both easy and elegant to implement? Meet my first attempt, utilizing an otherwise easily forgotten stage of the game:

image.png

THE NEW EXIT GATES
The exit gates, an otherwise forgotten and brushed over stage of the game, will be the key solution to solving Gen-Rushing forever. How it works:

Exit gates take 20 seconds to open, but at the start of the game, the speed at which survivors open the exit gates is drastically reduced. This reduction is called the Entity's Grasp, and the strength of it reduces linearly per in-game second based on in-game time. Dropping to having no effect at around 7-9 minutes.

image.png

x-axis: How many seconds into the match. 300 being 5 minutes. 7 minutes being 420 seconds, etc.
y-axis: How many seconds it takes to open the exit gates

As you can see, if a match theoretically would take 0 seconds to power all the generators, it would still take 260 seconds to open the exit gates. However while opening that exit gate, the time it takes to open that exit gate also changes, so in reality it takes less than that. But let's look at a more realistic match time of absolute genrushing:

4 minutes. Aka 240 seconds. We see that with a 240 seconds match, it would take 116 seconds to open the exit gate, which over that duration would drop to around 46.4 seconds, meaning it would take slightly over 81.2 seconds to open that exit gate in total minimally.

While the Entity's Grasp is still active (Aka the first 8 minutes of the match), exit gates slowly decay in progress. Closing the hatch instantly disables all the effects of Entity's Grasp.

WHY THIS WORKS
The reason why this works so well is because, the harder the survivors Genrush, the stronger the Entity's Grasp will be to counteract the game from falling down to problematically low gametimes, yet at the same time always keeps it beneficial to complete gens earlier than later, as even with the longer Gate time, it'll still be worth it to complete gens as soon as possible.

This minimal gamelength mechanic is also one of THE HEALTHIEST balance changes from the perspective of lower-vs higher elo, as this entire mechanic won't really be relevant much at lower elos where survivors struggle, as they aren't quite efficient enough to complete generators fast enough to meaningfully get held back by the effect, where as great survivors who are significantly more gen efficient will be more likely to bump into the effect, allowing weaker killers a better chance of winning when being efficiently gen-rushed, and making it easier to balance S tier killers as weaker killers will now be able to stand a better chance

You can watch back competitive gameplay and high level game-times to see how the gate mechanic would influence the matches.
When doing so, keep in mind you're measuring from the start of the game to the powering of the last gen, not to the end of the match, as the extra gate-time would extend the match.
In this tournament, where there were no rules forbidding people from running Fast Track 4 times, you'll see matches that take as little as 5 minutes, ranging between that and around 10 minutes total

With this simple gate-mechanic, we can meaningfully hinder gen-rushing in the healthiest way possible, through implementing this elegant game-mechanic that emphasizes a cool phase of the game that's otherwise predominantly forgotten, due to its short length; the minimal game-length mechanic that DBD has always needed ❤️

Post edited by AlwaysInAGoodShape on

Comments

  • Lexilogo
    Lexilogo Member Posts: 804

    Recently, I am pretty on board with the idea of a "game time normalisation" mechanic that makes Survivor objectives a bit less efficient if their uptime is insane and a bit more efficient in comparison if they're wandering around getting lost, so I'm ok with this in principle. I also think changes to the endgame could be an interesting idea to experiment with in achieving that.

    As for the specific method though, not really a fan, sorry. During that phase of the game, Survivors can easily hide, so I think in practice it would just slow down games the Survivor team has essentially already won. If we're elongating the endgame this much, it's also of course worth mentioning most endgame Killer perks would need rebalancing.

    A game time normaliser/survivor objective speed scaling mechanic should probably just be applied to Generators, as they're the far more significant part of the game

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,608

    A game time normaliser/survivor objective speed scaling mechanic should probably just be applied to Generators
    I think applying that to generators will sadly be mostly impossible, as it would require very complex system to interact with all the ways generators are sped up.

    During that phase of the game, Survivors can easily hide, so I think in practice it would just slow down games the Survivor team has essentially already won.
    I think that's an interesting criticism, and "the state of stealth" (the phenomenon where all the survivor's locations are hidden) could indeed be considered a problem with a mechanic that to some degree creates automatic progress. That said, at this stage of the game, which is when the last generator pops, they most likely are already chasing someone or have someone hooked, meaning they always know the location of at least 1 survivor, and with that will always have a form of pressure.

    I think it in fact is very unique in that to some degree it reintroduced stealth back into the game but in a healthier manner, where it only becomes an element when the game is getting completely rushed. Both giving a chance for the killer to come back, as well as a counter for survivors.

    If the stealth would be considered too problematic in testing this mechanic, it would be somewhat easy to add a mechanic that helps find survivors during the Entity's Grasp, but if any such thing would be needed would only be seen with testing this end game mechanic, which would be pretty easy to implement.

    it's also of course worth mentioning most endgame Killer perks would need rebalancing.
    I think a lot of end-game killer perks would actually be just fine. Perks like No Way Out only extend the general game time and doesn't make itself being any stronger as being related to endgame by itself alone. Perks like NOED end up cleaned pretty consistently with its aura help, so they are only part of the endgame for a limited amount of time. Perks like Rancor could of course be strong (especially paired with perks like Game Afoot), yet such perks give themselves away throughout the match, which would mean that survivors could simply counterplay them by delaying the last gen from popping, because keep in mind, the only time where they would face this mechanic to a significant degree is when they absolutely genrushed the hell out of the match. That'll often mean that also have the leverage to take things more slowly.

  • Yoshirama
    Yoshirama Member Posts: 533

    You can't fix genrushing without fixing tunneling/camping/slugging and viceversa

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 1,078

    We can't touch gen time anymore. It's been increased through out last few years.

    We can't make the surviviors gameplay more boring than it is now.
    Most of the time survivior has to do around 2 entire gens, this takes 3 minutes.
    3 Minutes of watching the bar going up.

    Killer mains that don't play the survivior seem not to understand it - survivior gameplay isn't that exciting for the most of the time.
    There is no contant chases like killers have. If there is no fun for survivior but more of the boring thing (gens), people will be less and less excited.
    If people are not excited to play, you will end up with no surviviors and killer queue will be extremely bad.

    If you're actually struggling to win games as a killer… you're doing something wrong.
    BHVR already made things so easy, that on average killer's kill rate is around 65%.

    There are people who get 90%+ killrate on average on every killer.

    image.png image.png

    How will you defend that @AlwaysInAGoodShape?
    How will you defend momo getting almost 2k wins in a row as blight twice?
    Or SupaAlf getting 1000 wins as a nurse?

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,608

    `We can't touch gen time anymore. It's been increased through out last few years.`
    This is very true. This is why the exit gates mechanic is genius. Because it doesn't increase progression time in general. It only increases progression time when that progression time has typically been artificially increased.

    `How will you defend momo getting almost 2k wins in a row as blight twice?`
    A lot of your points aren't really relevant to my post much, but to cover this separate topic; He's only getting to 2k because of DBD's matchmaking, paring top 0.1% players with essentially Gold players on the League of Legends scale. With of course the only time of him losing a streak is when he is also playing against the top 0.1% of players. If Momo, a top 0.1% player would only face up against top 0.1% players, his streak wouldn't even reach 10. So that's more of a matchmaking issue than a balance issue.

    `There is no contant chases like killers have. If there is no fun for survivior but more of the boring thing (gens), people will be less and less excited.`
    This doesn't seem too connected to my post either, but the beautiful thing about this change is, there'll be less reason to do exclusively do boring things (at least at an extreme efficiency with gen-rushing perks/items), because some of that will get counteracted with this minimal game-length change, which nerfs extreme pushing of gametimes through generator speed acceleration

    `If you're actually struggling to win games as a killer… you're doing something wrong.`
    Correct with the current matchmaking in public lobbies, but not really relevant to this post.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,608
    edited May 8

    How to solve Guaranteed Tunnelling FOREVER — BHVR

    With tunneling fixed. That leaves slugging/camping.
    Camping has largely been fixed, but I have long suggested increasing the hook timers per stage,
    Slugging I don't consider a real issue, but it's just as easily solved by simply making people recover more quickly, depending on how hard of a problem you believe it is. Not much more to solve there. And if you believe slugging is fine, leaving it at the current recovery rate is fine too

  • vol4r
    vol4r Member Posts: 1,078

    Oh but it is connected, but not in the direct way.

    You idea is helping the killers by giving them more time in a match when killers can get amazing results as I pointed out.

  • AlwaysInAGoodShape
    AlwaysInAGoodShape Member Posts: 1,608
    edited May 8

    That is of course based on Gold survivors being matched against top 0.1% Challenger killer players But those amazing killers don't necessarily guarantee a win as you're suggesting when paired against equally skilled survivors, as evident in

    1:20:57

    My idea only helps killers that are getting genrushed. If there is any normal level of game time they don't receive any form of help from this change.

    This tournament is one where pretty much everyone is running with a commodius toolbox and a brand new part. 4 people with a brand new part are already reducing the total game time to around 4.5 gens, with the commodius toolbox pushing it even lower. On top of that running more genrush perks. Even if you'd implemented my system, as you can analyze from the gameplay in any of the matches, would a lot of matches where the survivors played well still ended up as a win. So the idea that the exit gate mechanic would just make killers overpowered is just untrue. Which is even more untrue, considering that the only time this mechanic has influence over the match is when the survivors have an "overpowered" start of the game (Due to factors like many stacked BNP's and other gen perks, pushing the minimal gametime heavily)