Can we please do something about this 2 survivor scenario?! It is really boring to deal with.

1. if that had been an unintended and undesired emergent behavior it would have been addressed by them sometime within the last 10 years just as they have addressed other undesired emergent behaviors (you being satisfied by it is a differnt story) They have changed other things that are very divisive so claiming that because some people wouldnt like it is not a valid point to make here as they have a decade of making changes that upset people.

2. if your team mate leaves you for 4 mins on the ground without picking you up and the killer isnt standing over your body, thats on your team mate. the game was in progress and you were savable. the game was not over, hence why 3 people were still in an ongoing match. Something being annoying or boring to you is not the same thing as being disrespectful or poor sportsmanship.

3. almost every action you do is selfish. Slefish actions are fine, it has a bad connotation but you can not engage in life without selfish behavior.

Killers and survivors both want to win and as such want the opposition to lose. That is both want a more positive outcome for their individual self than for the opposition. This isnt really arguable. Its objectively selfish and the game can not exist if neither side is selfish and desires a better outcome for themselves than the opponents. this is simply what competition is.

4. Amusing you say im not engaging with your arguments when i have directly addressed them. You not likeing or agreeing with what i said doesnt magically mean im not addressing you. you just arent compelled by my reasoning which is fine but dont go making up lies dude lol.

5. well for 1 survs could stop picking each other up in the killers face, that would be a great start.

the killer isnt trying to waste your time (for most i assume anywasy like myself in the times i do slug) they are trying to win via a 4k. preventing the 4th person from escaping by triggering the pity portal is completely valid and i dont think you have any real justification that someone shouldnt try to do that if they want.

at MOST its 4 mins if your team mate does nothing but run in a circle and achieve nothing. In reality you will either be picked up or the other guy will be downed within 1-2 minutes.

complaining about a 1-2 minute wait every once in a while is a little entitled. if you were left there for 10 or 15 minutes or something or that the game wasnt actually progressing while your downed your position would hold more validity.

Survivors waste killers time when standing in the end gate when they have won. but you cant or shouldnt take action against that (as much as it annoys me when people dont just leave) because the game is still progress able. either the timer or the killer can force the game to end.

in the same way, your team (this is a team game for survs) you are there to be a support for your team and vice versa even if your slugged on the ground and even if your team mates are trash.

your welcome to abandon your team mate and fellow players but that IS bad sportmanship hence why there is a DC penalty.

if the devs felt otherwise they wouldnt have excluded this from all the other abandon features that happen when the game is ACTUALLY lost.

if your slugged anmd your team mate is still up you are LOSING but you have not LOST hence why you dont get to DC without penalty.

check your tik tok or whatever for 2 mins if you really cant be bothered to not tap buttons for a minute or 2.

Hatch doesnt even count as a win, so if you have 2 gens left and 1 guy left or 2 guys left and 1s slugged why not just immediately end the game instead of playing it out?

or 1 or 2k for killers isnt a win, should a killer just stop playing when its clear they can not achieve a 3k?

you signed up with 4 other people to play a game. its bad sportmanship to abandon game before the match is over.

1. You can't find them saying its intended, so many things have gone unaddressed this just happens to be one of them. BHVR quite clearly focuses updates on things that make money, thus even if they want to change it its incredibly low on their priority list.
2. The killer doesn't need to be standing on top of me, getting me up is not going to work. Its not hard to keep track of the incredibly slow moving slug while looking for the last survivor. You cannot blame someone that did not make the choice to put us in that position.
3. Selfish actions (keyword right there) require you to make a choice, to do something, I am not choosing to be forced to do nothing when I am trying to game. The killer is choosing to do that. The killer is the one taking an action against another for their own personal desires, I can't be selfish for wanting to move on after that happens. As the person taking the action only the killer can. There is nothing wrong with wanting a 4k, as I have said many times, there is something wrong when you take actions that harm (yes incredibly minor but still harm) others to achieve it.
4. Nothing in your previous comment engaged with anything I said, the ones before that did. You just claim its intended with no proof, blame teammates for whats happening when they have zero say in the matter, claim I am the one being selfish while its the killers actions that lead to the situation, and then try to turn the argument around on me with nonsense about how wanting the killer to not leave me with nothing to do is selfish or that not wanting to sit slugged for up to four minutes makes me a poor sportsman. Ask a football player if they would be ok with their opponent making their team sit at half field and do nothing while that opponent scores points against their team, you would get laughed at.
5. We are talking about a 2v1 situation, someone will be found moments after the slug is picked up whether or not its in the killers face, and even once someone is up unless there is almost no gen progress left to complete (unlikely) then you end up in that cycle. I should not be forced to go do something else while trying to play a game, its a ridiculous ask.

As for the time, I literally bled out to a slug for the 4k twice last evening. In one my teammate did get me up but guess what I went back down shortly afterwards and with two gens left there was no getting out of that. All getting me up did was extend the stupid situation, congrats, should have just left me on the ground. If there are two survivors up we have lost and can no longer win, capitalization doesn't change that.

There is no situation where the killer becomes unable to play the game. On top of that killers have many chances to start a snowball that wins them the match up to the point where all survivors are truly safe, I have done it many times and I would bet you have too. In a 2v1, the survivors cannot win, trying to turn the argument around doesn't work because the roles are incredibly different.

Hatch not counting as a win is exactly my point. Why is it ok for the killer to cause harm to someone else (again minor) to deny a not a win? Why is it ok to ask the survivor to endure that harm (again minor) so that the killer can get a 4k? No argument you could possibly make can justify that.

your writing is much better than mine! also i want to preface since we are clearly on 2 different positions that i hold no hostility or ire towards you even though i can come off blunt or insensitive. So I just want to make sure that you are aware i am talking to you with these long messages because i enjoy talking to you, not because i want to show you up or ypur some enemy of mine.

1. i do not think its reasonable to hold a position for them to have a mechanic for 9 years in the game that they did not want in the game that has an unintended game interaction and then not only never change it but then go around in in all sorts of adjacent and change those mechanics and say "we want to change certain game actions" and also want to do that with the final slug and not implement any change to that or discuss it. It is far more reasonable to infer that they dont see that as a problematic and an unexpected emergent game behavior as if they did at some point it would have been handled to remove it or lower its impact as they have done with a a bunch of other unintended mechanics and game interactions.

2. if you want to decrease the game experience of other people in the match to heighten your own experience (i.e. abandon your team mate and other players mid match because you dont want to sit there not doing anything for a couple mins) that is by definition selfish. which is OK to be selfish, im only stating that you cant say another person playing their game with the goal to win and utilising a strategy (non rule breaking) is being selfish because they dont want to play less effectively because you are bothered by a minute or 2 of lowered(you ar able to game interact while slugged) game interactivity or boredom.

3. one of my favorite activities to do when im in that situation is to slu crawl away, if the killer isnt proxying you you can absolutely crawl away and get out of sight within 15 seconds. ive done it dozens and dozens of time(i find slugNseek fun) but most of the time killers are chasing the mori so they leave you alone and dont remain on your body (ime)

4. Occam's razor would suggest that bhvr is aware of that mechanic and if they found it problematic or against game design they would have included that in the slug patches and qol passes they did. it takes more leaps and assumptions to conclude that they are aware of this, not talking about it but internally thinking its not an intended mechanic. why are you assuming they feel this way?

5. i agree this is likely the case in nearly all circumstances but the game still isnt over and a comeback i still possible even if its only a 4 percent chance (hopefully you get that tongue in cheek reference lol) and there is still a chance you can come back and escape. i have done so, not often but a few times it has, or ive at least been able to be part of how team mates escaped even if it was lost for me.

I want to reiterate here that ia m not pro slugging (sluggings fine if you dont over due it or being a jerk about it) in that i have a "get slugged loser" mindset (im aware my username may indicate otherwise) i do care about peoples fun and i do not slug the 3rd for the 4th (most of the time, in competitive matches where all of us are trying, i will because im trying to win) vast majority of the time i let the last 1 or 2 go (i let 2 people go twice last night) and i dont enjoy being slugged and left instead of hooked, i roll my eyes when it happens.

But my point is is that even tho its boring and it sucks, it is part of the games design, clearly is intentional or at the very least tolerated and not seen as a tactic that needs to be removed and i dont think its good for the game to add more ways for people to just dc when a game isnt going the way they want, we already have a major problem with that.

But if that were to be changed and you could abandon, i wouldnt personally complain because its an issue that wouldnt really be impacting me, i just get the DC whenever i down someone faster than they want or they dont like my killer choice or the wind blows or whatever happens in these games lol. I just am not convinced that there is an argument to be made to abandon a game just because you feel like you cant win and dont want to wait a couple minutes.

i think something that would help with these situations is that the game doesnt really make win conditions clear for killers.

With survivors its pretty easy, escape is a rather obvious inference. But with survivors the game doesnt really make clear that if 3 people escape and you die, you still win because its a team game. as such, a good chunk of people in soloq play selfishly (though in my expereince i think overall i encounter generally altruistic and team minded people)

With killers, the only people who know that 3k is considered by the game/devs to be a win is those who pay attention to the game to the degree you and I and the rest of the people that come and chat on a forum over it.

All the game tells you is that as a killer you have to kill the survivors. The inference is that the goal is to kill all 4. and killing 4 survivors is an obvious win because the game ends and there is no one else left to kill but i dont see anything in the game that really informs you that a 3k is still a victory beyond the end game phrase of "brutal killer" or whatever.

So i think alot of people dont feel they have a win or that its not a sufficient win unless they have 4 kills. I think that if BHVR were to make it clearer in game what the game considers as a win it "may" decrease people who stop at nothing for the 4k.

I dont think you can stop it permanently because people are as people are but if the game could reinforce to people more that 3k is a win or even gave another route to see your mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4 it could help as im sure a chunk of people slug for 4k specifically for the mori.

After sleeping on it though, i am less steadfast in my opposition to a slug dc in that situation.

1. you are right that its super unlikely for the game to be won in that situation, my argument is based in that small chances are still chances and both as killer and survivor ive ended up winning games i thought were lost and that this game does have a quit when losing midset issue but the chance of winning in that situation isnt just low, its astronomically low and the payoff of gaining an escape would be so rare holding out a dozen times would over ride the rare payoff.
2. in addition, the bot still exists on the dc and bots never give up or rat because they are tilted so i dont think my position holds up as well as initially thought.
3. I think part of my struggles are that we really have a huge issue with attitude in the community and that its currently shifting more and more into the quit whenever im in a disadvantage and its ruining the game expereince for people. WHen I play killer, when i see a dc it literally kills most of my enjoyment for the match. its not satisfying to take down a bot and its not satisfying to beat a team thats at a disadvantage NOT because i hex the third sealed them and now none of them knows where the hooked surv is and he goes to stage 2 for free (lol) but because a player abandoned them and left them with a rock for brain bot thats bad at everything except for shattering all my Hexes across the map with a single flick of its wrist. as survivor, it feels horrible to know at 5 gens left we are basically a team of 3 and not because we played poorly at the start or the killer pulled off a strong start but because someone didnt have the decency to stick it through in a match they dont like.
4. I despise legion with all my heart, he is the only killer i want to blacklist and never play against again and in every match with one i genuinely want to DC. i have zero desire to play, but i force myself to play and to try just as much as i do in other games because im letting down 4 other people who are in the game. If we could better address quitters on these other situations then i dont have an issue with abandoning in a 2v1 slug for 4k situation, but right now im concerned it adds on to an already DC over everything epidemic.
5. and i think that one of the main take aways thats shifting my opinion is that i think you are right in that it doesnt hurt the 4th survivors experience for the 3rd to DC there. I didnt care about the killers experience so much (they still got the down and generally the kill) but i was operating under that framework of it hurting the last survivors expereince of no longer having someone to play with and attempt a hail mary or whatever. But after reflecting on my own experiences of similar whenever i have been the 4th all i think if anything is "that sucks" and i just continue my journey on attempting to escape. when im the third almost every time i sigh and roll my eyes and those 2 experiences are definitely weighted more on a negative experience to the slugged survivor than the 4th.

So in conclusion, i will rescind my points in that will i remain steadfast in not wanting further DC encouragement but i think the net gain is higher than loss for an abandon feature in that scenario. If BHVR does implement a change on this i just hope they have some other general pass on DCing (though i do not know what the solution is) and that they have the game make it more obvious to killers in game that they have won if its a 3k. But maybe we can debate this idea, but if BHVR made the End game hook not give so much protection to the survs it could make that play more appealing to killers. I do believe there still needs to be endurance and most of the hook protections in place but right now i think that there is so much safety involved on that final hook in EGC that many killers dont want to play that scenario. I think endurance should be knocked down to 5 seconds and shorter haste buff which i think will allow for a more balanced final play. Theoretically this would make this scenario less bad feeling to killers to where they would slug someone to avoid reaching a scenario they feel is too hard to win.

Though personally i enjoy end game hook plays and i have had some of my most satisfying game experiences in the 10 years ive played the game off and on for have come from the end game plays, i do think that currently end game hooks are really punishing for around half of the killer roster and it doesnt make it a scenario you want to be in.

Thank you for being polite and cordial on a discussion of our differing views. because of that it caused me to be able to really reflect on my positions and listen to yours and as such, i can say my mind has been changed!

im going to admit slugging is boring for the killer itself

The same lack of definition to win conditions occurs on the survivor side as well, obviously an escape is something you want but the game internally defines only your personal escape as a win for you (ultimately only to the hidden mmr system) and while I agree that a three out where I die is still a win for me you will find people arguing for playing in a selfish way.

mori on survivor 3 instead of just 4

This has been one of the suggested solutions actually, that in a 2v1 the moment a survivor goes down a mori starts, hell lets make it extra fun and give ranged killers a special mori when they get the ranged down (nurses head is now three times as big lol). I am very open to other options than the slugged survivor abandoning or being insta-killed by the way and would even prefer a rework to make the 2v1 more engaging but all of those take more development effort than just letting them leave. The band aid would unfortunately likely become permanent but at least it would be something. I agree that the endgame scenario of one hook and everyone else still up sucks as well and a reduction to endurance in endgame would be a fine change but just like the killer winning scenario it feels like a band aid when it obviously needs some rework.

I agree there is a disconnection problem and a giving up problem (on both sides) but I frame it as a frustration problem first and an attitude problem second (for some it really is just attitude). You will never make everyone happy but it is possible to decrease frustration on both sides while still maintaining game balance, I mentioned some of that on the survivor side but a big one I should point out on the killer side is the expectation that ghostface should be able to win under the same conditions as nurse and blight. The disparity between killer strength is a massive driver of frustration as well and ultimately on both sides.

I 100% agree with you. This needs to be addressed. They had a fix for it and then failed to go through with it. I don't play this way when I play killer because I'm not trying to draw the game out or feel entitled to a 4k.

I'm talking about if the other person is already slugged

Maybe, just maybe, you should accept that the match is lost at that point and it makes it easier for everyone if you actually played the game. Hiding edge map, touching totems and chests to avoid crows just for a shot at hatch (on match you and your team clearly lost) is just something I can not wrap around my head. When I play survivor and get into such situations, I get on a gen, try to pickup the slug and just progress the game, the killer finds me and we have a last good chase then we say ggs and go next, its that simple.

This is just your ego talking. I play killer more than survivor and I never slug for a 4k unless the survs were just being toxic. It wastes everybody's time. You won the game with a 3k. Who gives a ######### if one survivor gets to escape through the hatch? I get out through the hatch in the majority of my games. You know why? Because my teammates are trash and I can actually loop the killer so they leave me after I've wasted like 1-2 minutes of their time. Needing to get a 4k because you feel it's owed to you is just ego and baby mentality. Wah wah I need my 4k Mr. Entity I did so good I deserve it. Just end the game bro. It's not that deep. If you count 1 surv out as a loss than you're the issue, not the hatch. You're the one having unfun games. You are the problem. And from one killer main to another, stop it. You make us all look bad.

What is this reply? Thanks for highlighting the points that make you look like a massive ego maniac I guess.