How's Jason
Comments
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I don't know about anyone else, but I'm having a blast. This is the most fun I've had with a new killer since Houndmaster, I'm eating very well here!
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Karaue wasn't even popular on day one, and everyone who wanted to play her just wanted cheese wins. Henry also didn't have much time in the sun, and his subsequent nerfs were barely noticeable.
But the "learn counterplay" argument doesn't make full sense. Why are people instantly good with a killer they don't know either yet survivors are expected to just lose against them cause the killer is new? Why is it fine and normal that it takes no learning time on the killer side to win all your matches?
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he seems like he'll be a good chess killer
bring back skull merchant 2
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He's definitely not weak. Doesn't seem too strong.
How much fun he is to play against is a different story.
I thought he'd be fun to play against, but in practice it's like playing against a Deathslinger who can move at normal killer movement speed, has instant reloads (which yes are not fully under his control), no range limits on shots, and has extremely powerful map traversal.
I didn't think the map traversal would be that big of a deal since I like playing against Dracula for example, but Dracula has literally no hints as to your location at all other than scratch marks and blood pools, and the bat screeching is intended to make it hard for him to hear you. Which makes bat form feel a lot more engaging to try to play against and forces Dracula to commit perk slots to information so he can make more educated guesses on where people are.
With Jason, he just knows where you are if you're holding still or doing anything but crouch walking, and then he reveals your location after he teleports and gets to block the pallet or window for free. Which means if you're on death hook and trying to avoid notice, you have to play insanely passively or he will find you and you might instantly be in a bad spot when he does.
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The fact anyone downvoted you is kinda crazy, I don't think I could've put my experience into words better.
Only thing I'd add is that I do genuinely find his concept fun, I wouldn't mind the crouch walking around if the rest of his kit didn't make him nearly impossible to shake, like the incredibly short 12 second cooldown or the fact that your only option is to crouch walk, you can't even walk normally. Also he can teleport to every kind of unique map spawn except for lockers. Walls, windows, pallets, potential pallet spawns, broken pallets, downed pallets. They achieved "omnipresent" quite literally for this killer. Only issue is, as you mentioned, he has the highest potential ranged ability in the game. As he sits now he's incredibly overtuned. The only reason I don't find him unplayable to face is that they didn't give him an outright free hit like they did for The Ghoul.
Some easy tweaks that I think could make him fairer is allowing walking to not show footprints, make his teleport have a longer cooldown (something like 15-20 seconds would be better), and making his "jumpscare" not work on players in lockers. In fact, I think lowering the distance of the jumpscare to something like 12 meters and allowing crouched survivors to get revealed would make him a lot more interesting as a anti-hiding killer. I find it SO annoying and counterproductive that his only counter is to play like the old noob distortion users who just crouch walked around the map and let their whole team die on first hook. I can't blame my teammates for letting me die on hook because 50% of the time Jason goes into omnipresent he's just sitting in it for 20-30 seconds nearby waiting for the save so he can interrupt the heal. He's incredible at face camping right now, because instead of blocking all teleports around the hook for a period during and after a survivor being hooked there (like the Dredge) he's allowed to teleport but with a slightly longer exit animation, right next to the hook pretty much.
There's definitely a lot they need to work on to make him balanced with the rest of the S-tier killers, because I'm seeing nothing but the same exact hex build and the same two addons from every Jason I play against. Which means his basekit is too strong, no one thinks he needs synergy perks to buff any given aspect of his kit, so they're just bringing hexes.
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I don't know why people come on here to insult others.
Every single time a patch releases - it's complaining on both sides, but because people struggle for whatever reason and it's the survivor end it's an issue.
I'll see how the forums are when survivors release - I still remember the time of being on here and seeing killer mains talking about how Counterforce would be meta.
Five Moves Ahead being meta and game-breaking.
Just fear-mongering on both ends, people will struggle when a new update comes out - not everyone just picks up the game and just easily loops Jason on the first match that they play unless they commit to playing consistently.
The average DBD player doesn't have 4k+ hours.........
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He just has no skill ceiling and is just a amalgamation of other killers so he's far easier to grasp early and I feel he needs tweaking so it's not 20 minute matches every time because everyone is forced to crotch walk every where because he has all the information at once and yea no one's runing anything but hexes because he's overtuned base kit wise. It's not a good thing
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I've enjoyed being able to run this guilty pleasure perk without shame since he came out.
If you guys see a green bunny Feng with a 2V8 inspired build crouch walking around in the fog, that might be me…
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i would say because the default power balance in a 1v4 should lean to the 1v4.
so on any kind of 1v1 on similar experience levels there should be a default slant towards the killer performing better.
killer powers can require different playstyl;es.
survivors play the same ways regardless of the killer other than perhaps adapting to your power.
you definitely dont need to learn as much with a new killer other than the power sicne survivors are still going to run the same perks, run the same loops and run the same plays.
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He's in a weird spot where his offense is very strong to the point that playing against it doesn't feel very good a lot of the time, but at the same time, hardcore stealth from survivors pretty much makes playing him one of the most miserable killer experiences ever. I'm happy to have Jason in the game finally, but his power seems to be creating some pretty miserable experiences for both sides.
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i generally feel this is a balanced chapter, and feel that we shouldnt turn Jason into a krasue mishap
Counterforce meta???
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People were saying Counterforce would have killed totem builds when it first released.
Do people have amnesia every single chapter update?
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yes, people indeed do.
i have never seen anyone run Counterforce. thats like saying Red Herring would be meta
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He's increadible fun AND strong. I'm very happy with him.
Only thing that's maybe a bit annoying his how much screen his spear takes while aiming, but it also helps with aiming so it's okay :D
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I'm just saying that's what I read when the update came out.
It's the same thing when Shane will be released - people use the new perks for a bit, people see the perks, the perks die down in usage, and then people act like they didn't initially complain about the perk.
That's how the forums operate - killer comes out, I struggle, nerf please.
Survivor comes out, perk is too OP and meta-changing, I struggle, please nerf.
People need to realize you're not going to win every single game and just because you lost doesn't necessarily mean you have to come on here and demand nerfs - it's rinse/repeat every single chapter update.
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Jason is way too fast coming out of his teleport power. They need to remove or severely reduce the haste he gets. He cuts you off and you literally cannot escape. And you have no real idea which loop he's about to cut off because he is invisible. At least when a Wraith does it you can see their shimmer walking up to block a window. It's especially annoying on indoor maps with tight spaces.
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A cool concept and design but a really mid killer in strength. His spears are good but quite easy to dodge. His mobility is very good. His tunneling potential is beyond any other killer in this game, being better at this even than Pyramid Head.
Don't deserve nerfs or buffs and probably won't be one of my mains.
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But if survivors do more or less the same things against all killers, shouldn't learning how to utilize the new killer's kit be the more challenging aspect? Like when Henry first came out, I struggled. I stuck with him because I thought he was fun and now I do okay. To me, that's the way it ought to be. It isn't though.
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The "Krasue mishap" was caused by the ridiculous overbuff they got going from PTB to live. This is the real amnesia from what happened with Krasue.
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i just thinks its stupid how people are complaining over a killer whos been out for two days and immideatly say hes op
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No it's players that notice things which are indeed OP about his kit which are only going to become more and more infuriating to play against once the wider playerbase master Jason.
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The amount of people I've see complain about his jump scare and saying it's too strong while simultaneously also not even knowing about crouching has been quite significant. It shows how quick people are to complain before even understanding the abilities at a basic level.
I would say the majority of survivors in all my games do not crouch at all.
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That's how I feel. I might try the Haste Token perk though on Houndmaster. Sounds fun.
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If they would just make Rampage also trigger on gen kicks it could potentially be decent on m1 killers with no mobility to help them around the map.
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Yep... truly a killers killer. Easy to win. That's all they want. Well said
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No that really is my complaint.... Duck walking and hiding. Don't get me wrong, love the idea of a jump scare killer...however, survivor matches have been boring AF! Even when I survive I'm like, wow low chase…hide. I thought BHRV was getting away from that style. Solo que even worse... They are dead before one gen popped. I'd say roughly half the matches I'm dead after first hook
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I mean I'd argue there are already lots of killers where stealth is the better counter play. So it doesn't really seem like a Jason thing per say. Some people do like the stealth game play, so I'm sure that's why they make it so there's something for everyone.
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I don't feel like he's over powered, but he's definitely got too much going on in his kit/add ons. I really don't see the point in hiding the survivors while in Omnipresent Evil mode when you can see their red mist and foot steps anyway. Sure you can crouch, but once people get over the fear of him, they'll just ignore it and keep moving. His addons giving oblivous, exhaustion, gen regression and such are just too much. Correct me if I'm wrong, but they give the survivor the status map wide (or at least a really huge radius), and that's just too oppressive. It's also really pointless making him 4.4 when he gets haste for so long coming out of Omnipresent Evil.
They gave him way too much and it feels like he doesn't have anything that punishes him outside of rearing the spike, but that's nothing. 1 minor draw back against a fully stacked kit seems unbalanced. Again, he's not over powered, but he needs to lose some things. It gets exhausting having to deal with everything from one killer…It's almost borderline old Skull Merchant.
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Jason is such a weird case cuz he's not OP, he's not even top 5 but playing against him just doesn't feel good? This isn't even a buff/nerf issue it's the core gameplay loop of crouch and don't do anything while he stays in his fog form as long as he wants sucks. There is nothing fun about the game just grinding to a halt every time Jason uses his power and I can't imagine it's fun for the Jason player either not being able to find anyone so you just guess a place survivors are going to be in hopes of getting a jumpscare.
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He's Sombra for DBD he has way too much happening while not actually being like Ghoul levels of strong making everyone around him miserable. Sombra is nearly always perma banned because of how miserable she makes playing yet is one of the weaker dps. Jason may need a full rework before the year's out because he's just bloat with no downside
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I played a few matches against him and so far I loathe him. I don't know how anyone who isn't a masochist can find this fun. I have as much fun playing against Twins. His kit is outrageously overstuffed, his blood warden, gen regress, and anti-exhaustion add-ons are basically perks, Omni recharges way too fast, the haste and Killer Instinct are overkill, he's a zoning nightmare, and if he spikes you and you bounce off of something nearby his recovery is so fast you're just screwed. There's no way to really counter him slugging for the 4k. You can't crouch for 4 minutes because you'll get crows, but if you do literally anything else he'll find you in Omni.
Glad I'm already gold grade for survivor for the season cause I don't think I'll be playing the role much until this cools.
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I think Jason can body block in fog form, I had one where he wasn't even teleporting to a pallet but was still blocking it off which just seems dumb to me.
The more I play against Jason the longer I can be chased without too much difficulty. Something that's an issue is how easy it is for him to reload his spear, he could miss multiple spears in the same chase and just keep refilling without even a pick up animation from the looks of it.
The whole screaming thing just feels cheap too, there's no counterplay to a Jason teleporting quite a distance and still getting a scream
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The more I play into Jason the more I get pissed at this "Sauna Rock" addon. This thing is WAY too strong. 13 seconds of exhaustion in a wide area for literally doing NOTHING other than using your teleport which has practically no cooldown.
This coupled with the fact he gets crazy haste from every teleport is making me very frustrated.
I don't even use the best exhaustion perks in the game. 99% of the time no joke I am using Balanced Landing since it's been a long time favorite of mine. This Sauna Rock for an addon which you barely have to do anything for to get the effect needs a nerf. Lower the 13 seconds of exhaustion to no more than 5 seconds if they are going to keep Jason's power as strong as it is, with the practically zero cooldown his power currently has and the incredible haste he gets from it. Not to mention the free info he gets as well. This rock is as powerful as an entire perk slot and then some for how strong his power already innately is.
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Oh yeah, he can body block. I've had moments where I've bumped into him while trying to go through a door way, or trying to get over a pallet.
I like the idea of him removing a hook to reload, but having so many places to reload while in chase just feels so unimpactful for him. You gained distance, but…he's a ranged killer, that does little for you.
And if I can suggest a soft counter to his Jumpscare, I use either Hardened (after opening a chest and cleanse totem, you stay silent and see their aura) or Scene Partner to get a bit of an advantage.4 -
Boring OP power creep pay to win tunnel trash.
I knew long before his power was going to be just popping up out of no where as that's kinda the thing with the movies.
However, the spear throwing…. dumb
New killers haven't been fun for a long time. BHVR just panders to infuencers rather than balancing the game. Cash grab trash.3 -
I see it super rare in normal matches more its used in competitive side where dome hex builds are used.
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There is no way you teleported to a hook where you stay stuck for 6 bussines days and said this is good for tunneling . These forums are hilarious because if you play him Jason might just have to worst power punishment near hooks in the entire game .
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My experience with Jason on both sides has been interesting.
Yes, he's strong. Yes, his kit is bloated. He's still sinking in so I'll not conclude too much.
Playing as him, he just feels satisfying to play. Not much to elaborate on here because I feel most people find him fun to play as, especially now I've had games beyond my one lag-fest PTB experience.
Against him is where it's interesting, because this is where there's more varied opinions - although the forums are definitely leaning more towards the negative. The biggest issue I can see with him is just how long games against him are if he's not winning. I think this ability to stall with high map pressure plus counterplay that forces people off gens has led to the real problem here.
No matter how good you are against Jason in chase, he has far too many chances to get you or a teammate. I've picked up a bit of a knack here or there. One of the main ones is sticking your gen during OE if you have two resources you can make should he arrive. Yes, you'll end up taking chase, but you're the teammate with the best shot at getting away or delaying him significantly. The rest of your team on less safe gens can then keep working. I tried this a few times to pretty decent success.
The problem arises from how forgiving it is to rotate as Jason. So many times I'd make it to a decent loop, and Jason would just drop me. Many other times Jason would drop multiple chases until he found which survivor he was most confident he could two tap, then just did that. Meanwhile, every instance of OE was causing gen slowdown because people have now learned the counterplay but don't seem to be applying it in moderation.
I maintain that he's not OP in a vaccuum, but he's a significant skill/knowledge check to the entire survivor team, so if the team has a weaker link, it becomes very hard to win. I do enjoy playing against him, but even me, a survivor who's honestly not that good, find myself losing less because I'm being taken out, and more because one or two people on my team are getting picked off fairly early.
If anything was to be nerfed, it would be increasing the CD on OE. I think I could handle that as it would force Jason to somewhat commit to the chases he gets. It should at least be about as long as his haste.2 -
I don't know why they released the killer as a 4.4 movement speed killer and then proceeded to overstuff his kit and power to the point that he feels 4.6+ speed all game anyway. His haste is genuinely disgustingly broken for a killer with a ranged attack you can shoot across the map and reload in 0.5 seconds. Most ranged killers in this game are slow and some have to reload in lockers even. They need to tune some stuff down on Jason period.
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While I kinda agree I think Devs had to give him this stuff cause during testing he'd be miserable and weak to play without some of this stuff due to his design
If we got rid of pallet and vault blocking when he spawned in survivors could probably just pallet stun him when he spawns in or vault through him when he spawns in a vault
I understand how strong his kit and omnipresent is but we're only in day 2 and people already want to skull merchant treatment him when I don't think he's that problematic compared to other killers like Ghoul
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I mean, yeah, you HAVE lost at that point. It shouldn't be easy to escape when your team has been completely outplayed.
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Upvote for the FF reference
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As survivor: It's the quarterly "Bend over and get in the barrel" Festival!
As a Myers-main: Who?
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Has one of the best ranged attacks in the game (with low or no movement speed tradeoff while charging)
Has insane map movement
Still has 4.4 movement speed
Makes sense.
I mean just compare Jason with Plague or Gunslinger. Plague who needs to work for her ranged attack has significantly slower speed and lower range on her range attack. Gunslinger whos only quirk is ranged has lower range and attack speed.
I'ts just powercreep deluxe.
I don't mind some characters being stronger than others but I am forced to play against this 8/10 games.-1 -
You say he's not overpowered but then say he's overloaded and needs stuff removed. This is contradictory. If he's not overpowered then he shouldn't need things removed since removing things is nerfing a not overpowered killer.
Crouching removes his info entirely. If as you say people get over their fear of him and ignore this counter play that's a skill issue of them knowing and actively ignoring his counter play. That isn't a Jason problem.
You reference multiple addons but he can only ever have 2 on, so it's not like he's stacking all these. Also mentioning the Oblivious ones is a little strange as those aren't even good. You also complain about a map wide status when they're not map wide, so you're complaining about something and asking for nerfs without understanding how it even works.
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Yes, the closer he is the thickier the fog is.
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His entire kit feels really strong and I enjoy playing against him and as him. I feel some addons specifically are a little too strong for their rarity with how easy they are to activate - specifically Sauna Rock (Rare that causes 13 seconds exhaustion for jumpscare). I think the value is cute but I'd probably lower that a little.
I do love the Omnipresent Evil dynamic in chase but it can vary on map. The dynamic that you are breaking chase constantly while pursuing a survivor and start the chase in another position. I do love that - although I feel that specifically in chase it can allow you to frequently reposition too much which lets you reload and cut survivors off effortlessly making his zoning very strong. I wouldn't really change this but if I had to nitpick something I didn't like - when you play against a Jason who is really good at using Omnipresent Evil to reload and cut you off mid chase constantly it can be difficult to deal with - but I like a challenge.
I'm not going to argue variety - game is 10 years old and I just think it's an insanely pointless conversation to have. I find him fun to play as and against, sound design and visuals are great. His perks are kind of bad though - at least for him specifically. I feel you could get mileage on other killers with his perks. I do feel with gen regression perks he can be a bit too difficult to deal with especially having one built into his kit with an addon.
-1 -
I mean it works both ways, I've seen killers tell survivors to use calm spirit lol
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That's true, but they're also not the ones calling for changes. It's the combination, not just misunderstanding how a mechanic works. I wouldn't fault them for just that.
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It's more it is just a sign that it's day 2 or so and people on both sides don't understand the power fully. Of course some know a lot about it, but everyones still learning. I don't think we should discredit opinions on either side just over that, maybe it's a sign his power isn't clear enough (I personally love the mist tell as I've come to learn him)
As I keep saying I've been really enjoying him so far, but I'm noticing my casual friends are really struggling against him, it'll probably get easier for them with time.
I just think also the people who are already good at him, are going to be even better when they optimize him, most people I watch play seem to settle on he is really good at tunneling/omnipresent evil is overloaded, not to mention I see that a lot here too so far.
I think there is good opinions to take from both sides.1
