Jason is an great example why ranged killers should never be 4.6
One of the more unhealthy releases to date of course next to Krasue
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jason isnt anywhere near as op krasue was.
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P2Win Killer money grab.
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Yet we have more and more people asking for 4.4s to be 4.6. This playerbase won't be happy until every killer requires no effort.
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AMEN
I hate a streamer for using a busted mechanic like Jason's half a minute haste for using his power as justification to buff Huntress. The logic is nonexistent.
These people want to go on 2000 game winstreaks without even touching a keyboard XD.
Effort is going out of the window nowadays.
Post edited by Balrog on23 -
DbD 2025-26 in a nutshell
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I have to agree with this thread, I thought I enjoyed him when he came out but as time went off him and Ghoul being the most popular, I'm really not happy with them being so popular, it's making survivor really exhausting.
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This seems like it's their new way of making busted killers, which is concerning.
Ghoul was busted, Krasue was busted, First was very good and frustrating, Jason seems busted with all he got in his kit.
This isn't "one time" thing, this is the new way. Poor surviviors.
We can't wonder why killer matches aren't instant in the evenings like before, much more people only want to play killer and not touch the survivior side.
Yet we have people saying dbd is survivior sided and that devs are biased towards surviviors.
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Story of my life. I was a Jason defender; see my comment history. I argued that he has counterplay in the form of giving survivors control over who takes chase and where they take chase, which is super strong (and true)
However
Should that level of coordinated counterplay be expected in a game like this? It demands all survivors be good at/built for chase. Jason's 'weakness' of frontloading all his strength in chase is cushioned way too hard with the duration of his haste and how quickly he can reset with OE. Reloading is either too fast or too easy to do without taking a detour. So the whole idea of forcing out his M2 and surviving long enough for him to be a 4.4 M1 killer never comes into play.
You can pick who takes chase at any given time if you cooridnate but Jason is the kind of killer that can afford to spread hooks. And I haven't even got to the pain of a slowdown + hex + thrill Jason. It's outright gross.
I was so excited about Jason. He is really fun to play as and my first survivor experiences against him were atmospheric, fun and not impossible. I still don't want his gameplay loop altered too much because he has such a unique feel and I think the design team were very close to a homerun.
Start by making his Haste half its current duration, then work from there.22 -
I usually play about an even mixture of roles. I get full iri grade every season on both. But the experience has been so bad since Jason came out that I've hardly touched survivor. My last 5 or so sessions have only been killer and I wouldn't even consider soloq right now. I hate the queue times but it's better than misery. Next season might be my first without survivor iri grade.
And yeah, hearing how survivior-sided the game is while Jason stomps is just so infuritating. I've been winning almost all my kiiler matches in the oh so survivor-sided event too. I guess survivor-sided means they get to finish some gens before they lose.
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Exactly though, he is so close to being fun to face he just needs some changes but not like executed, they need to find a balance.
they really need to find ways to make killers fun to play as but also fun to face, coz usually its either or, never both.3 -
In general, I think the last 3 Killers all have big design flaws. Krasue has been talked about a lot, her gameplay loop is so boring. And on top of that, she has her power which she can just spam, plus it has some autoaim. Henry is fine strength-wise, I also have fun playing him and dont mind playing against him. But again, the power is so spammy… I can get why big cooldowns are a turnoff, but being able to just spam your power should not be possible.
And then there is Jason. Again, a spammable power with the Spears, since you basically never come into the situation to not have a spear ready. That he can reload on Hooks (which are plenty on the maps) and his own crates and this while basically doing a drive-by just means that he always has the spear. That he has a 12 second Cooldown on OE while gaining 25 seconds of Haste (such an absurd high number) makes him 4,6 m/s instead of 4,4 m/s basically all of the time. On top of that, he has some of the best information and map traversal, making Hex-Builds way too strong on him and games against him a slog.
To add to this, for some reason they added a Mini Mori to him (to make him better at tunneling after the second hook) AND he provides Killer Instinct AND for some reason you cannot avoid screaming in Lockers or with Calm Spirit. I dont know why they thought that he needed that exact interaction. Sure, you can crouch, so it is not that bad, but I dont understand why the game in general allows you to avoid screams with Lockers or a very niche and bad Perk just to then make a Killer who bypasses it. (Meanwhile, someone like Doctor, who has a way weaker power completely relies on screams and gets no information at all when Survivors are in Lockers)
When Jason released I predicted that at some point the honeymoon phase will be over and he will be one of the most unpopular Killers to go against and we probably reached that point. To me he is still not as insulting as Ghoul is, but he is a close second. And I dont even understand why they had to do this, the license will sell anyway.
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I don't think even with his infinite Spirit phase and tiny hitbox spike he's not as op but he's insanely boring to go against. You have no visual feedback on what is going on other than he's in his mode (Spirit got nerfed to being unable to do this), on top of that he has free tracking on anyone who's doing something other than crouchwalk and can immidiately attack after jumpscare (Springtrap has built in visual indication). So I'm more confused why other killers were limited when new killers can do it all. Zoning killer with infinite movement, that's Jason, not op, not fun.
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you know unless that killer has some heavy caveats like with unknown were you not only have to infect them beforehand but also can’t hit the survivor directly with it.
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Dont worry, you'll cry enough and they'll strip him of any thing good. Perkless trapper should be the only killer in dbd.
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I don't know, I think Jason has issues but I don't think being conditionally 4.6 is one of them. It encourages him weaving in and out of his power, and the ranged attack he gets is reasonably restricted in being one shot before a reload and being reasonably reactable while he has it.
I could see some nerfs like decreasing the duration of Haste slightly, increasing the distance between scrap piles so whiffing is more punishing, and maybe making hooks stay broken for longer if he grabs from there so it's more of a tradeoff being worth exploring, but the general shape of how his power is designed there doesn't really strike me as his major issue.To me the far bigger issue with Jason is that he can see you cleansing totems and opening the exit gate, those two bits of information encourage some really nasty strategies on the killer side. I'd much sooner see those things adjusted, on top of him obviously having a couple way overtuned addons.
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Are you the ada called RockGothBecca i met yesterday?
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Its kinda like when they put infinite tombstone myers in the game and wanted him to really stand out as a powerfull killer at the time. Seeing as myers came out after nurse.
So when it comes to jason its like they wanted him to slightly beat ghoul/krasue/the first to make him feel more of iconic powerful killer. Doesn't mean any of thats good for the game as the base strength level of new killers is starting to rise to A-S tier minimum. If they did Xeno around this time hed probly be crawling on the walls and getting instadown pounces or busted facehuggers etc.
Even the grimoire killer looks like they will be even more of a problem then jason in the right hands. Its like giving the first - pig traps and other passive debuffs on the side.
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Where example?
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Oh no, a killer who’s a bit too strong right now might get some much-needed changes so the survivor side isn’t so miserable when playing against him. The horror! Oh please, lol.
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In all fairness, old Spirit could just yank you off a gen. Theres not a threat of Jason doing that which is why its REALLY not the same thing.
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it’s an power creep problem and it’s not going to stop unless they prioritize old killers. I never see original dbd killers anymore unless it’s blight, krasue, unknown, legion on occasion. It’s sad and they’ll only address them by giving them garbage micro buffs like Ghostface moving .2 meters faster in crouch as an example.
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Jason's just a boring, passive, reactive chess killer. Dude is a modern day Hag.
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I don't know where asking for the bare minimum for a killer has become no effort. Unless the Killer power can literally replace every single situation where an M1 would come into play (killers like Henry or Spirit), I don't think its unfair to ask for some of the older killers to have better movement speed to keep up with the current fast pace meta.
For Jason specifically, he can literally avoid it by just spamming teleport whenever he becomes 4.4m/s. Its like Myers' 4.2m/s, it literally makes no difference to him because he's 4.6m/s when it matters. I feel his more annoying tool worthy of discussion for his balance is his teleport, which I agree with that is too oppressive on some maps and the counterplay is silly.-2 -
So what is springtrap then? Doesnt he count as a ranged killer? Its not like people hold the axe forever.
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Eh, Jason's biggest problem really is the duration of the spooky mode. Hard cap it to 10-20 seconds and he's mostly balanced out.
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People will figure out the gameplay. Around loops and such, Jason's chases are very similar to Xeno or Pyramid head except he has to go get a new spear if he misses the M2. You also have killers like Artist or Unknown who are ranged 4.6 killers.… but ppl will probably say they dont count.
I feel like the biggest issue might be that ppl are too busy avoiding a chase that the match isn't progressing as fast as it otherwise would. I could definitely be wrong, but if the whole team wasn't busy crouching everytime he pops his power and is instead cranking out gens like they do against Springtrap, he might be getting less kills.
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Not really. Range on Springtrap's axe is quite short and he has to go to specific location to use his mobility, on top of that he leaves visual indication that allows you to prerun so far away, that he won't catch you.
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No it's near, but you are right that Krasue was worse.
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What fast paced meta though? Did survivor running speed increase? Did gen times go down? Most of the popular perks are still years old. SB is still meta. What's mostly changed is that powerful killers keep coming out and people want every killer to be that way.
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Ya people want strong killers to be able to compete with the insane perks survivors have had for years but for some reason only nurse can stay as s+ teir and blight as s teir everyone cries about the new killer they get nerfed and people learn the counterplay after making them illet even worse it happened with the first
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a mix of pallet density, gamewide changes to healing/gens/hookstates and general meta evolution have led to gens being done way faster on average, and the afformentioned pallet density means the killers who cant answer pallets eat #########
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Henry's nerfs were minor. People don't play him because he's not easy, yet he's still strong. That's the problem—more and more, people want everything to be easier. And if the perks have been "insane" for years, before all these overstuffed A tiers starting dropping constantly, what has changed to make killers suddenly unable to deal with them now? Because they've seemed to be able to work around them all this time.
Like what changes? Healing builds have been nerfed by diminishing. Everyone seems to have forgotten medkit add-ons were nerfed some months ago. Gens haven't changed. Deja Vu and Resi are still the gen perks I see the most. Nothing has changed with hookstates. And pallet density also came with main building nerfs, plus most of the pallets are tiny, unsafe nothings between a rock and a tree. You can walk around half the pallets in this game. There are almost no killers who don't have some way to work around pallets, like ranged attacks, teleports, or speed.
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post your stats page
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I am not talking about literal speed. I am talking about how long trials last, its the current meta. If a survivor isn't being efficient on gens, or killers are taking too long in a chase, they're underperforming, that goes for both sides. This is just the reality of current DBD.
Most killers with 4.4m/s, unless they have an oppressive power, will naturally take longer to do things in a trial like traversal or dealing with chases chases than killers with 4.6m/s.
I don't think making a killer like Springtrap or Trickster 4.6m/s make them as annoying as post PTB buff Krasue or Jason, because those are strong because their power was really annoying to deal with.-9 -
So you have no response but this weird demand? How about you tell me how all these things you listed changed for survivors benefit. You made the claim, so expand on it.
But that is literal speed. My matches usually last 10-15 minutes total. How long do you want them to be? If you can't spread pressure properly and juggle the activity on the map, you lose. I feel like this view has more to do with MMR increases than actual game issues. MMR goes up, sweaty and efficient opponenets appear, and the matches become increasingly more intense and demanding. Because the base game has only changed so much in recent years. New killers keep droppng as A tier, so survivors are forced into peak efficiency, especially against good players. I used to be silly as survivor. I used to meme. But that's over. The killers I go against are all business. Same for me on killer. If I want to maintain numbers above the goal I should expect harder matches. If you want chiller matches than lose more.
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To be honest I think a lot of people forgot how DBD worked 2-3 years ago. Syringes, safe pallets everywhere, infinite windows, 80s gens, most gen perks had higher repair speed. But on the other hand killers had learning curves, needed to work around that, didnt have many slowdown perks (ruin, surge, pop, corrupt). New killers require minimal skills if any to perform way better than old killers sweating as much as possible (example Krasue, Ghoul, Jason, buffed Billy etc.) So I think that both sides become somewhat different and meta perks? Cross examination didnt even been in PTB for one day and they already announced it to be nerfed after everyone cried about it like no one has eyes and need scratch marks. On indoor map maybe… But if every perk that has potential will be nerfed meta wont ever changed.
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The constant buffs to the rest of the game around those perks like more pallets more hook timer survivors spawning separated and people just getting better over time. And no people dont play the first because hes just weak and his counterplay is easy hes not bad but he not powerful sense his counterplay is to just run but not in a straight line. Killers dont want it easy they want it fair the effort should be rewarded but its not killer feels like a 9 to 5 while survivor I can win while watching a video.
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What really was the nail in the coffin for me was the disaster AFK crows + DC penalty update that went live for an entire week, while the anti-camping/tunneling/slug patch had the plug pulled DURING the PTB.
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Killers who spawn next to Survivors do not need Haste.
Let's see?if landing three hits deals 1 damage, but you have to land them quickly or the gauge decays (effectively making it as if you hadn't hit at all), then Haste is necessary. Or would it be better to aim for six or eight hits instead?
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Reading stuff like this makes me wonder how I survived as a Pig main for so long (since 2020).
I managed to keep up back then and I manage to keep up now. People really just want to put in less effort.
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Survivors are supposed to spawn together, not separate, which was a nerf. Hook timers and gen completion times were increased. Pallet density added a lot of fillers that are unsafe and came with main building nerfs. People only ever seem to remember what the other side got while forgetting what their favoirte side got. Your real issue is this:
people just getting better over time
MMR goes up and you get better people and then you blame the game. There are still bad players with 200 hours out there. But if they're getting better shouldn't you also be getting better too, not just complaining about wanting it easier?
Henry isn't weak just because there's viable counterplay. If you don't like the hold w then Pizza Goggle/Rollerskate combo exists, but calling a killer who can hit through walls and from a lower floor weak is just ridiculous.
The effort is rewarded. What personal KR on a killer do you consider fair? And if survivor is so easy, then you also have a very high ER wirh high hours to back that up, right?
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If the Henry player is good at predicting survivor movement and hitting their shots there is no real counterplay on the survivor side. The survivor is not dodging Henry, they are just making it as hard as possible for Henry to place the vines in the right spot made even harder after you factor ping in. A truly good Henry is closest to Nurse where your best bet is to just find a far corner to die in and I actually enjoy facing Henry because its different to most other killers. The notion that his counterplay is just not running in a straight line comes from the plethora of players that haven't put the time into learning Henry, he is anything but weak. If the survivor is in LOS and the Henry misses that is on the Henry entirely.
The pallet changes didn't happen in a vacuum. We see people point towards strong survivor perks as a problem but those haven't been touched in years while that same timeframe saw the release of many popular and strong killers. If you want a reason why some of the weaker killers in the roster cannot keep up its because they have to exist in the same game as the stronger killers. Survivors don't have a choice but to be prepared to face those stronger killers and if survivors cannot keep up with the strong killers in at least some matches then killers will stop having survivors to play against.
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You keep up because survivors still suck ass at the game amd give up underhook dc at the smallest thing.
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If being average at survivor isn't enough to do decently at survivor then it isn't the survivors being bad, its the skill floor required to do well being higher on survivor than killer. The average player is average that is how averages work. I guarantee player skill in this game follows a typical bell curve and you would need an incredibly compelling reason to believe it doesn't. It isn't the players fault that the game expects more of survivors than it does of killers, especially when matchmaking is as bad as it is. I am not saying this is a bad thing by the way but ignoring this means faulty assessments of the game.
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people just getting better over time
survivors still suck ass at the game
Pick a lane.
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both can be true that survivors suck but also suck less then they used too.
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I won against a very popular comp streamer on Garden of Joy.
So according to your logic comp players are just as bad.
Don't get me wrong, there are a ton of people that give up at the slghtest inconvenience. But that's not happening in all matches. I still win pretty consistently and I'm not even running a max meta build.
It's just a TON of experience.
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35% of my last 100 games on killer and survivors has someone dc after first down I have been tracking it because its frustrating to lose because people just want to give up after a 12 second chase.
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Aren't you the one that wants a free DC because you failed to kill survivors before they open the gates?
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Yeah I'm ngl, this really irked me and not to mention killer queue times are longer than ever. I'm sure we could lose the bad actors and watch them adapt and evolve the system from there.
IDK I'm just sick of the bad actors in general rn event queue has been like:
-Hex Jason
-Sluggin Twins
-Slugging Blight
-Overtuned af Myers
-Legion poison abusers with end fury (shouldnt work on their power) ←— this one is the kicker coz I swear Legion has ruined every single new event we've ever gotten: 2v8, Lights out and now this.8
