Stop hard tunneling.

That's like saying pallets are a perk, or the extra 10s added to gens is a perk. Game mechanics and adjustments aren't perks.

Doesn't mean it's ethically ok. There's a lot of things immoral but isn't properly punished.

its completely ethically okay.

Hard tunneling sucks ass but the actual cases of real hard tunnelling off hook aren't as common as people might think it is. I think perception is pretty important to consider in these conversations as there's a huge difference between "I'm getting tunneled off hook" and "I happen to be at the wrong place during the wrong time". I think we're mostly balanced in that regard however I do think a good move towards preventing tunneling is to add a small 3 second unhook notifcation delay. It gives just enough time for survivors to move away from the hook without it being a free heal under hook either and if the killer wants to tunnel then they have dedicate MUCH more attention to the hook rather than defending gens.

Personally I dislike it when someone or myself tunnels anyone 99% of the time, but we cannot truthfully discredit the reasons behind it. I believe I can speak for many when I say that the "90 second generator" is a profound lie. Sure if a survivor w/ 0 perks, tools, add ons, etc were to individually do a generator and hit 0 Great skill check - it would take 90 seconds, but often times - 2 or 3 generators can be done within the first 2 and a half minutes of a match (this is well documented), and in rare cases - all 5 generators can be done in sub 4 minutes.

Tunneling is often done B/C killers know that generators can be done ridiculously fast, and gen rushing is often done b/c killers tunneling out 1 survivor can screw over the survivors. Its a lose-lose situation.

Call me crazy or absurd BUT if the generator progression that tool kits add were to be nerfed, or killers to be ironically buffed, killers would not feel overwhelmingly pressured to tunnel as much.

chase is part of the game so sorry you are objectively wrong being tunneled isnt bad its just a strategy. its not bad ethics to play the killer role and want to kill just like its not bad survivors want to escape. your the one with bad ethics trying to force your belifes on everyone else trying to make the dumb survivor rule but like the bible of dbd. tunneling slugging and proxy camping are 100% okay just like saboing blocking the killer from hooking gen rushing stunning and taking protection hits as a survivor is 100% okay. stop pushing your bad faith arguments that killer is so how morally wrong for playing the role they queued up for.

Because a survivor can't remove the killer from the game 2 mins in. What you're complaining about is survivors maybe winning; what survivors are complaining about is not being able to play at all.

and survivors can win in under 3 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fN_ZUUNTzic

so what do you tell the killers that have longer queues and a shorter game. if your tunneled out as a survivor you can instantly get into another match killers cant so i would argue its worse to gen run then to tunnel. but this forms is so survivor sided because they are the majority its not suprising tunneling slugging are a give consern but genrushing and bulling the killer is so low they released that horrible rework fast tack thats still 3 brand new parts if used in a swift and hey look another reason to tunnel out instead of spreading hooks. the devs encouringe slugging and tunneling with how they make perks and how survivors use anti tunnel aggressively which the devs have yet to address.

fast track is still better then old old fast track its perma gen progress compared to normal gen progress so no its still better by a large margen the old old fast track

killer queue times are usaly longer sense they only need to be 20% of the player base so if half the people wanted to play killer and half wanted to play survior queue times for killer will be higher but right now my queue times are under a minite meaning killer area probably making up just over 20% of my servers population and im guessing most of that is due to jason being added pumping up killer queue times before 10.0 i had bp bonus on killer about half the day.

the game is an asim tunneling is a completely okay thing to do and if survivors didnt use anti tunnel so aggressively i bet you you would see less people out so fast. surviors behavior and the devs have made tunneling needed. i personly dont tunnel but thats because i slug and you cant really do both sense hooking is so worthless for killer and helps survivors more.

also just because you cant do gens fast doesnt mean others cant i have had a 3 games this month under 3 minutes 2 as survivor got parred with 2 3man swfs and got chased while they did gens insanly fast and ones as killer when i was learning oni.

I don't think many people are tunnelling with the intent to be mean or to bully. Most people who tunnel simply do so because it is often the most effective strategy to win. Just like survivors might slam gens, sabo, get flashlight saves, or run strong perks. Most people doing those things are not doing them with malice, but because they are effective things to do. It's annoying and unfun to be on the receiving end of any of those things but it is a bit much to say that people are cyberbullying by doing any of them.

Yeah that must be why I see no one run it anymore. People at least used the original version a little.

Killer queue times were instant for me at night. Now there's a wait. It'll go back up even more when the banquet ends. It was 10 mins in Australia today. That's not the norm. This woe-is-me killer narrative is just not true. People want to play killer.

I'm playing in a SWF and no one is using any anti-tunnel perks aggressively. The tunneling is still constant. Stop blaming people for other people's actions.

So you're learning a killer and did bad and that's the survivors fault?

Ok see the thing is there is a massive difference between someone doing that to you while you are minding your own business and you choosing to actively engage in a PvP video game where literally the only objective of your opponent is to eliminate you from the game. In DbD, you are not entitled to “eat your lunch in peace and quiet”. If you truly believe that, then you have wildly misguided expectations for online PvP gaming.

Wow the last page sure shows engaging with szrv mains is a test of patience.

Its funny to see them be offended being called a tunneler cuz its their word to demean killers.

They also cant connect the dots that its a killer whi gets annoyed at quick repaired gens

"If you single out and grief a person, thats bannable"- No, its not in literally any other game.

Lets take league of legends for example, in laning phase I could zone from the wave and keep you around 3/4 levels down with 0 farm and that'd be fine.

In valorant/CSGO i could kill you repeatedly on spawn.

In GTA V i can hunt you down in online mode as much as I want.

Why? because thats part of the game. The objective of the killer is to kill the survivors before the gens pop. Preventing them from playing the game Is part of it being an asymetrical horror. You wouldn't say getting 1 tapped by a pro on spawn in CSGO is cyberbulling/griefing, the same is with DBD, being killed is part of the style of game, and to pretend otherwise is ridiculous

I've seen survivors win in 4 mins a decent amount of times, I've also seen survivors not get tunnelled. Hyperbolising isn't helping the point here mate.

But yeah, mains are an issue on this forum 100%.

"It's funny to use the long killer queues as an example since they just show how desirable playing killer is right now no matter how much whining there is."- This is wrong for a plethora of reasons:

1. there needs to be 4 survivors to 1 killer, so even if there was (in every 100) 30 killers to 70 survivors, there'd still be a wait time.
2. Killer queue times have gotten worse since the event due to 2 reasons: Killers found the event bullshit unless they played specific killers/builds (not justifying hex jason, that builds bs) and survivors have found playing against those killers horrendously unfun (legion/plague/hex jason/ bubba) and there is 2 queues splitting the playerbase. I saw a 2.5x bp bonus on killer in event but a 1.25 bonus on survivor outside of the event, which was insane since I rarely see survivor bp bonus'
3. Killer is widely accepted to be in the worst state its been in for a long time, but the new killer came out somewhat recently and people really vibe with playing jason.

Here is the main 3 reasons why that statement doesn't track. But yeah, i think tunneling should be punished. I also think gens should take longer to casualise the game. Just my 2 cents.

Agreed, theres no need to be combative in this, we're all here to have fun (not saying your being combative, saying "mains" are).

"The only time I've ever won or lost in 5 mins or less is if I as killer blew it, or the killer I was playing against blew it. People do bad and they lose. Is it only a problem when killers lose this fast though? I've wrapped up many a 4k at 5 gens as killer in under 5 mins. I've also been full team slugged by instadown killers running Infectious/Coul in similar time."- I can make the same argument though. The only time I've ever been tunnelled out before 2 gens is if I blew it, because 90% of the time the haste/endurance should get you to a pallet and then you should be able to loop/mindgame a killer for a while. This argument seems like removing agency from the survivor here, ngl.

"I've been playing the event exclusively as killer right now and having a blast. I'm going to be really unhappy when it's gone and I just can't play anymore because the queues are too long. I watch the queues daily and I play daily. It's been abnormally high since Jason came out, and it not because tons of survivors were queuing up to play against him. I myself just ended a two week break from playing survivor because of how miserable endless tunneling Jasons was. At the the time of me writing this there are 3 servers with over 5 min queues for killer in the event, and half the queues in 1v4 are over 6 mins. But I played 35-40 survivor matches yesterday and didn't get a single Jason, so killers are still waiting in line even with Jason cooling."— I agree, survivors dont want to play vs jason, people want to play as jason so will play killer even if its not fun to play to play jason. And I'm glad your having a blast on the event, genuinely. I want every player to have a blast on it, but the consensus (as shown by shorter killer queue times and the forum posts) is most killers aren;t.

"I disagree about it being widely accepted. What I see is CCs complaining and their followers parroting, and then a narrative is created. Most long time players I know seem to think the days of infinites, gen tapping, and old DH were worse. Both sides have been adjusted. The game is just different now, and new killers are pretty much all A tiers on release now. What killer you choose will shape your view. I'm not gonna play as Trapper and complain when I struggle."

Thats a take you can have, I'd argue that gen times are at an all time low because survivor perks allow them to streamline that process (I've been playing since 2018, so remember all the things youre saying) Old school regression was stronger (old ruin/PGTW) and back when gen tapping and old DH were a thing, Legion (the repeated stabs legion), old freddy with insane slowdown, nurse could have up to 7 blinks and hillbilly was the demon he used to be. Now, things for the most part are a lot weaker and survivors have a plethora of perks to combat styles of play they don't like, killer queue times are worse (making each bad game feel even worse since they've queued for up to 15 mins for a game at worst times) and theres a lot more maps making it a lot more rng dependant for most killers.

I will agree that a lot of the newer killers have been strong-insane. Ghoul/jason are the best examples, but even houndmaster/springtrap aren't weak (maybe high B). Sadly thats power creep for you, and with more going into the game the devs give killers more to be able to deal with it. Hag/doctor werent made to stand up to the current meta.

"What killer you choose will shape your view. I'm not gonna play as Trapper and complain when I struggle." This I heavily disagree with. People are allowed to say X is broken, and should voice it. They have with Jason. People should also be able to say X is weak as hell and I don't enjoy playing killer unless I play 3/4 out of the 10 strong killers that can consistently put up a fight. Because both sides fun matters, thats the whole point. Tunneling/bleed to death massively impact a survivors fun, so should be dealt with whilst keeping balance. The same weight should be given to that claim as "restricting killers to play specific killers and builds also heavily impact a killers fun, so should be dealt with whilst keeping balance". Both are about each sides fun. I prioritise neither. I hope you can do the same.

here is the way I see it. Devs develop a character with all these amazing base powers but if players just hard tunnel it causes the killer to be nerfed. The game is unwinnable the higher you go without that hard tunnel aspect. When go up against a well synchronized SWF and sprinkle the toxic there its hard not to pull out the not so good tactics. I also think the game is really balanced around that tunneling and slugging because killer mains NEED to win. They have more of an emotional connection to winning and so on. If they did implement something like you suggest that would actually in turn buff the killers in terms of powers and such (at the devs leisure of course). I think that is the main problem they have continually balanced around tunneling/slugging/SWFs that any drastic change would actually be devastating to one side. Yes fixing hard tunneling is a drastic change because it would have a domino effect. The problem here is evident people are not playing like they used to and the community challenge has effectively proven that. Yes their numbers surge when a new character comes out but then they go back to where it was prior. This game is a love hate as it is fun but there are so many broken mechanics it makes it unfun.

That being said yes hard tunneling is something they should look at. I have even had two other players get behind me to try and break it but the killer is hyper focused on me. It also plays an advantage knowing this as a survivor because you can continue to doing gens instead of rushing a hook.

The black banquet has also enraged lots of killers and it is very much survivor sided .

I don't really think it's a skill issue if a randomly assigned team member you can't communicate with is dying fast and that makes it game over for you even if you're amazing. There's also the matter of matchmaking. Pretty sure everyone with thousands of hours has had random baby survivors show up in their lobbies. Those matches are decided before they even begin. It's not hard for a killer to spot a low level player they can prey on, especially more so with profile browsing being permitted.

The game doesn't really have a line of survivors though. There's currently no line on any server for survivor. The only time I see one—and it's comparatively small—is during peak hours when SWFs are on. And I haven't seen one of those lines since Jason came out. I highly doubt many people would wait in a 10min line for soloq.

And this is the first event aside from 2v8 that's somewhat survivor-sided that I can recall. The remote hooking and pallet breaking in the previous events was just ridiculous. But even with this one supposedly being so busted for survivor (my killer stats disagree) there remains a line for killer. Is everyone cheesing with Bubba and Legion? No idea. I'm not, and I didn't play anymore of it then I had to to get the unlocks as survivor. But whatever is going on in there, people are will to wait in line for it. If killer was in a bad state, and even more so in the event, there should be a line of survivors waiting for their free wins.

I want pretty much the same balance you do but I think it's a pipe dream. It would require them to stop churning out endless new content and focus on what they have. They tried step one with the anti-tunnel ptb and look how that went. I've said it many times but this community is it's own worst enemy. They complain about the meta and the state of things but any even minor change is met with resistance. If there can't be a first step there will be no other steps either. Even the last few survivor perks have been met with mass resistance, so the meta just keeps on going.

"I don't really think it's a skill issue if a randomly assigned team member you can't communicate with is dying fast and that makes it game over for you even if you're amazing. There's also the matter of matchmaking. Pretty sure everyone with thousands of hours has had random baby survivors show up in their lobbies. Those matches are decided before they even begin. It's not hard for a killer to spot a low level player they can prey on, especially more so with profile browsing being permitted."-

Its a skill issue because that specific survivor is bad, aka skill issue. Yeah sure you can have baby survivors ect but thats the fault of the baby survivor as per your argument of "skill issue". If killers who are bad/worse can't complain in a 4v1, you sure as hell can't if your teammates are bad. If tunneling/slugging shouldn't be allowed because "just get good bro", then I'd argue that the survivors as a whole are responsible for "getting good" too. Thats the fallaciousness of your get good argument.

"The game doesn't really have a line of survivors though. There's currently no line on any server for survivor. The only time I see one—and it's comparatively small—is during peak hours when SWFs are on. And I haven't seen one of those lines since Jason came out. I highly doubt many people would wait in a 10min line for soloq."- How many times am i going to have to re-iterate this. There needs to be 4 survivors per killer. So even if killer is 30% of the overall playerbase, there will be queues because theres not enough killers to fill the amount of survivors. Just because killers have a queue A) doesn't mean theres more people playing killer then survivor and so B) doesn't mean killer is the overpopulated role your making it out to be.

"And this is the first event aside from 2v8 that's somewhat survivor-sided that I can recall. The remote hooking and pallet breaking in the previous events was just ridiculous. But even with this one supposedly being so busted for survivor (my killer stats disagree) there remains a line for killer. Is everyone cheesing with Bubba and Legion? No idea. I'm not, and I didn't play anymore of it then I had to to get the unlocks as survivor. But whatever is going on in there, people are will to wait in line for it. If killer was in a bad state, and even more so in the event, there should be a line of survivors waiting for their free wins."-

I'd argue chaos shuffle is survivor-sided because theres 16 perks that are rng instead of 4, meaning your guaranteed to get more meta/good perks than killer defacto. Also, 2v8 is a big one that your just bringing up as if it wasnt here for most of a year.

"But even with this one supposedly being so busted for survivor (my killer stats disagree) there remains a line for killer. Is everyone cheesing with Bubba and Legion? " there isn't a line for killer tho. Its a 1 min queue rn for me max, usually 1-2 mins, can be less if peak times like now. Im living in heaven with killer queues to the point if i want to play survivor I have to actually queue it rather than survive as i wait. I shall also attach a screenshot of the bp bonus being on survivor rn. never done it before so idk how itll go. considering usually theres a 1.5x-2x on survivor for me even before jason came out, this is astonishing.

" But whatever is going on in there, people are will to wait in line for it. If killer was in a bad state, and even more so in the event, there should be a line of survivors waiting for their free wins."- see point before. There is actually a wait for survivors in my lobbies. Its almost back to 2018 killer queue times and current survivor times are a minute for me (instead of instant). This is insane.

"I want pretty much the same balance you do but I think it's a pipe dream. It would require them to stop churning out endless new content and focus on what they have. They tried step one with the anti-tunnel ptb and look how that went. I've said it many times but this community is it's own worst enemy. They complain about the meta and the state of things but any even minor change is met with resistance. If there can't be a first step there will be no other steps either. Even the last few survivor perks have been met with mass resistance, so the meta just keeps on going."

Mostly agree with this point, just gonna say just because the latest perks have been met with mass resistance (specifically the elusive perk which was beyond broken) doesn't mean every perk has or will be. This is an outlier, last survivors perks werent anywhere near as badly protested en mass, because they were nowhere near as strong as them.

I agree with the OP that "normal tunnelling" is fine, and a choice made during the game to balance the scales so to speak. However "hard tunnelling" is just not the way the game was intended to be played. Otherwise it would have been a 3v1 game from the start.

What about adding the following protections - but only for the first survivor to be hooked:

• Basekit DS plus basekit Unbreakable - DS for 60 seconds after being unhooked, and Unbreakable for 45 seconds
• During this time the survivor is also Elusive and does not scream

This way the killer is forced to go for someone else, giving that first survivor at least a good chance at participating in the rest of the game.

Yep it needs to be addressed, tired of patches with no proper balance changes

"If a 100 hour survivor gets matched with a 5000 hour killer you can't say it's their fault. It's impossible for them to meet at that level. In that case, it is actually the game's fault. I got matched with a team of perkless comp players on Badham once that obliterated me. I could say it's also the game's fault but we might well have been in the same MMR bracket, I just wasn't anywhere near their level. But I do have a higher that goal KR. A 100 hour player matching with someone in upper MMR would not be their fault on either side."-

and vice versa, if a 500 hour killer gets matched against survivors averaging 2/3 thousand hours its not their fault if they lose. That doesn't change the fact that its a skill issue. Just means its more understandable. At this point it seems your content with strawmanning, as im seeing in the rest of your comments.

"Lord knows they can and will complain. The problem with this argument is that the killer is solely responsible for themselves, whereas the survivor's teammates can doom them by no fault of their own. Go look in the current killer anxiety thread (or any of the past ones because this place is stuck in a time loop) and you'll see this one common thread that pops up constantly: they're stressed because the responsibility falls on them and them alone. But that's the role, and that's what I like about. And it's also why these serial complainers offend me so much. It's supposed to be the role of personal responsibility but for some reason it attracts people who don't want to be responsible when they lose, so they blame everything but themselves. When I get beat as killer I get angry and frustrated but I don't run to the forum looking for validation for an external source of blame."

Thats sadly the issue with it being 1v4, you have teammates. That's also just part of an asymetrical horror. But to act like when a killer tunnels because they feel like they can't win is a skill issue vs when a survivor can't handle being tunneled its not a skill issue is ridiculous. I'm saying both sides are technically under the "skill issue" complaint because it is a skill issue. As much as you would/have argue picking a sub optimal killer/build or them needing to tunnel is a skill issue, theres a plethora of reasons they could tunnel like bad matchmaking means a new killer is going against strong as hell survivors. For example, I played probably my 10th game of legion ever today, and was met with 4 p100 swf (One was a twitch streamer so found out they were premade) and still somehow got the 4k, even though It was incredibly close to a 2k until the end. I messed up, due to my inexperience with legions changed fov a couple of times, and somehow still won. But had I lost it wouldve been understandable as some of them (2 were private) had over 3000h, and im sitting on just over 1.5k hours on this acc (I used to play on my brothers acc at first) and they were a swf with somewhat decent comms. And I could complain about that game, even though my almost loss was a skill issue. This is just my most recent example, but mmr can screw killers as much as survivors, so a "killer being bad" may be down to them, but they can also be thrown into the deep end vs the unemployed who have way too many hours/time to play this game.

It's not overpopulated, it's just not as undesirable as the forum wants to think. Everyday we have posts about how unplayable killer is and how weak killers are and how survivor is braindead and they win every match, statements that not only don't track with my experiences or the ones of friends, but that never seem to have any absyallmy low personal KRs posted to show just how unwinnable it is. The complainers are still winning their matches.

I'm not sure what you're showing me. The bonus goes to the role they need more of, which is survivor, because there a line for killer. These are the current queues:

Your argument before was killer has a queue time, so people must be filling the role way too much. You've now flipped that on your head to grant the narrative you want. If a longer then usual queue time means that theres too many in one role, its for both sided dude. Your either rage-baiting or being facetious and I genuinely can't tell.

My argument is: Yes the bp bonus signifies which role is needed more, but to go from almost 2x on average to 1.1x means the divide between the huge amount of killers to survivors has shifted down. Its gone from about 1:2.5 survivors and shifted to 1 killer :3.8 survivors in the event. Yes more survivors are needed, but if the imbalance was too high, the bonus would be bigger, and killer queue times would be back to 5 mins. Survivor is always needed more due to it being 1:4 in ratio, so to go from up to 2.25x bp to survivors to 1.1x and insanely short killer queues must be because killers aren't playing the event.

The only line for survivor is in Australia, but they also have a line for killer. So too many SWFs and killers and not enough solos, I guess? Normally the waits change based on time of day. It's not normal for killer to have the line everywhere at all times.

I disagree with Cross Examination being broken. It's popped up a lot in my killer matches and I've paid close attention to it. It's caused me no trouble. The 5s is too short for me not to just find the trial again with basic guessing. Assuming they can even break LoS. Even on Lery's and Trickster's I have no problem. It's extremely situational which, to me, is low value. It was at least an interesting new thing but will be in the trash heap soon.

Again, im not saying survivor isn't the most needed role. You seem to be misunderstanding why I posted that. Im saying that from the usual 5 min queues killer queues have dropped and survivors have extended. Whilst needing more survivors (which is permanently the case when Im on, its a minimum 1.5x/1.75x bp bonus to survivors over the past 6 months) They need LESS survivors than usual, because there is LESS KILLERS and more Survivors in the event.

When they do you ask for those strategies to get nerfed so… lol.