Stop hard tunneling.
Comments
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but it's still completely useless information.I'm going to guess you meant to put a 'not' into this part.
Unfortunately though, it is completely useless. We don't know who is submitting the data, only that it is way off on multiple metrics from what BHVR posts and is not even consistent on their own site.
If Lich had an 80% KR on Nightlight and BHVR said it was 65%, would you be taking them seriously?
BHVR is looking at skewed stats rather than making the learning curve easier they make the game easier for survivors overall.One thing this argument admits is that survivor has more things to pick up than killer, because they don't provide anymore of a tutorial on how to play killers. If one side literally has a harder learning curve, whether it has tutorials or not, is really important when evaluating the two sides.
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Yes the majority of survivor mains because this form like the game is mostly survivor players so downvotes literally mean nothing
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Survivors totally wont weaponize that like thye weaponized every other anti tunnel thing added and ya remove slugging make it so survivors have 6 perks each instead of 5 while killer still has 4 perks that are game impacting as survivor perks. Maybe make hooking survivors and hook individual survivors more appealing to killer and not more effective for survivors. Just say you dont want killer to have any agency over the match. I bet your against letting killer abandon the match. Survivors are the power role. just because a majority of them suck at the game because they dont have the motivation to learn and the game doesnt explain anything about killer powers even to rhe killer.
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Isn't this the same thread people downvoted a survivor sided opinion saying "Killers tunneling is cyberbullying"? I don't think people realise this kind of thinking where you assume people are survivor sided or killer sided, is not a safe way to think.
A lot of people who are active here do play both sides.3 -
Gotten that bug before you still get the prompt to mend your self when you stop moving. Its a bug that needs fixed and probably will be soon just ike invisible skill checks was fixed.
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Question how do the devs determine what is tunneling and what is giving up under hook because I can tell you 90% of the "tunneling"(killing someone when they are death hook) was people giving up under hook because I play less popular killer and have been told repeatedly that they hate my killer.
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Just because the sky is red once a day doesnt mean you wouldnt say the sky isnt blue . Just because there are small out liers where the down votes weren't about sides it was about someone calling things cyber bullying doesnt make it any less true that posting a killer change will get mass donated vs a survivor change that wouldn't. The forms aren't as bad as the subreddit which bans killer opinions because "you cant tell its a post talking about dbd" actual thing I got told by a mod because I posted asking about how to people deal with killer anxiety.
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Like it or not hard tunneling is a valid strategy, it just is and even if it wasn't part of the game those who would hard tunnel would just find something just as annoying to do😅
I'm not the best in chase but you can't go down if you don't get hit and so if you are frustrated at hard tunneling play differently and change the flow of the match so the pressure is in a good runner, that's how tunneling is punished not through the Devs jumping in to find a fix etc.
Just my thoughts.
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As the thread kind of got lost in the weeds, to go back to the original idea:
In the specific situation where you have 2 hooks on the same player, 0 hooks on anyone else and they are chasing the 2 hooked player there should be some kind of game intervention. Something that stops this kind of play dead. Peehsps a system where the surv on taking the second hit straight off of hook gets teleported to thebopposite side of the map and insta hesled or just invincibility or invisibility that gets cancelled if the killer hooks another player or if a survivor struggles out (obvs I wouldn't want to see survs abusing a mechanic like this for free bodyblocks) this would give the tunneled surv an opportunity to get out of the killer's sight and have a chance to heal and actually try to counter play by going stealthy so they can still achieve something in the match.Starting off - BHVR doesn't seem to ever want to do it, but I don't think it would be bad for the game if survivors (outside of EGC) just came off the hook intangible (and maybe even invisible). They can't bodyblock, the killer can't hit them.
Let's say we aren't doing that and just want to focus on the hard tunnel
I think teleporting is a little too random. I'd try 'if a survivor is unhooked, and has been hooked twice, and no other survivor has been hook, they are instantly healed, have 60 seconds of all the current bonuses (with current conspicuous action rules).' You can even put a limitation that this only applies if less than 4 gens have been completed.
If the killer can tunnel through that its probably such an extreme mismatch that nothing is going to change the game.
I agree that I think it would be healthy for the game to do more to eliminate the hard tunnel.
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Killer:
- Bloodlust (free haste) - this was added not as a hand holding mechanic but to make infinites not possible
- Instant 5% gen regression - not hand holding it just makes kicking gens actually worth it
- No anti-camp in end game - ya because it would be dumb they should remove the free perk the survivors all have too
- Killer Instinct - thats an info thing to balance killers
- Much worse loops around maps. - pallet density makes it so bad loops all connect making them good loops removing alot of dead zones for the survivor's so no this is just no longer true.
- Power Creep, and lots of it - well ya thats how most games work and 3 of the 4 best killers in the game are old as sin with billy and nurse and blight is also old every killer thats been added that rivaled then (krasu) was nerfed hard
- 90 second generators (up from 80 seconds) - so 50 second extra which skill checks can off set
- BNP's and medkits heavily nerfed. - and healing has been buffed why hemorrhage and mangled has stayed nerfed you can litteraly heal under hook in under 2 seconds with brand new heart and resurgence
- So much aura read. - this is a trade off tho use give up gen regretion for aura reading and usally you or the survivor has to do something to get them
- Remote regression (Pain Res, Turn Back the Clock etc.) - all need you to actual do somthing that takes time like hooking on specific hooks or going to the gen are using it.
- Gen-blockers (Dead Man's Switch etc.) - not hand holding sorry
- Thrill of the Hunt - not hand holding just protects hexs which are made strong sense they can be removed making the killer be down a perk
- Faster animations - not hand holding just isnt.
Survivor:
- Basekit Borrowed Time (increased to 15 seconds) - a entire better perk so yes hand holding
- Anti-Camp - not hand holding but mad annoying on 2 floor maps turning off alot of killer power
- No hook-grabs - thats not hand holding just a buff to survivors
- 10% free haste off the hook. - only hand holding in end game sense it guaranties your out of gates are open
- 70 seconds hook timers. this is not hand holding but an insane buff thats 80 second survivors gain vs the 50 killers gain and killers out side a single perk dont have base kit ways to make it go faster.
- More pallets to work with, but most are bad fillers. - this is hand holding.
- Removal of 1-hook moris - not hand holding just like removing old brand new part
- A lot of aura read (but less than killers). - the only 2 aura perks i would say are training wheels for survivor are windows and deja vu
- Regression limits on gens - niot hand holding but for sure a buff to the killer role
- Elusive - not hand holding just broken because it just does to much
- Endurance perks - just strong not hand holding.
the only hand holding thing is base kit borrowed time and haste in end game. and the perks i named are hand holding but aren't base kit so taking a slot away from stronger perks.
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Finally someone dragging this thread kicking and screaming back on topic. 🥲
An interesting suggestion for the auto heal. And yeah, if a killer can get through all that then matchmaking has indeed messed up (as per usual)
I'm hoping I don't see as many examples of this sort of tunneling now the banquet event is over. But it could be habit forming. When i does happen it makes for an awful game and just incentivises survs to either go next or simply DC.
I honestly don't why killers enjoy playing like that. I could win 90% of my killer games if I simply hard tunneled someone straight away like that. But my games would be so mind numbingly boring my brain would literally shrink.
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Which killer do you main out of interest? Guessing from this comment it's ghoul maybe?
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dredge pig hag artist are my mains i actual hate ghoul he feels clunky
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There's only so much survs can do about hard tunneling. It isn't really fair to say it's up to survs to stop it because it is, at the end of the day, down to the killer's decision making and survivors have limited agency in this particular situation.
If a killer recognises who is good and bad at chase in a game, and they opt to tunnel out the weaker player(s) then it's going to happen. Better players can do whatever they like to try and interfere but if the killer is mildly competent/skilled then it won't work. You will literally see killers down and slug a protector not even stop to hook them, just ignore them and just carry on after their intended target.
Altruistic plays are incredibly risky, and against killers who know what they're doing will simply result in snowballs. Flashlights are easy to avoid (or you can simply take lightborn), sabo plays rarely work out and the sabotager often gets downed or at least injured, and protection hits just give the killer free pressure and often free downs/hooks.
As for saying it's a valid tactic. I guess? It's just incredibly unfun. It gives the survivor team little to no opportunity to counter and just results in DCs. I've come across people using glitches in games to win and calling it a "valid tactic" because it exists in the game. Obviously that's a slightly different thing to hard tunneling. Actualy cheating by exploiting glitches versus and very cheap tactic but the parallel is there. Hard tunneling only really falls down when the killer chooses someone who is obscenely good at chase and over commits to it.
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Yh that auto hit doesn't feel good for anyone. Weird ppl DC against them. Dredge pig and hag are considered weaker killers who've been powercrept to oblivion. And artist is one people usually consider to be strong but a pretty high skill ceiling.
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from what i have been told by the survivors that afk under hook is. "hag is a camping ######### made character i dont want to deal with" which did get a laugh out of me becasue i didnt even set up traps around him because his teamate was right next to us on a gen so i chased. for dredge "he's a cheap as killer that should be removed from the game and has 0 counter play". for pig "wow you want the 4k that badly" he was the 3rd person i hooked and my 3rd hook and i still have no clue on what they meant. lastly artist " wow using the easiest killer in the game your a waste of space" all things i have gotten from survivors that gave up under hook after first hook.
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Well, I just had a game where the Jake was immediately tunnelled off hook and was dead at 4 gens, Feng was AFK and so I and the Leon just gave up. In the chat the killer said they were satisfied and they "love it when babies cry, get better".
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Just sounds like a toxic players bet the tbag at exit gate vs a no perk trapper
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Lol yh sounds like the usual losers mentality. Doesn't matter which killer it is, some players will just moan whenever they lose. Could be the weakest killer in the game and someone will still complain 🤣 imagine describing artist as an easy killer to play.
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I think there's an incredibly important part to add to your comment: tunnelling isn't fun. I literally am facing tunnellers in EVERY SINGLE MATCH. And it just is boring and not enjoyable for anyone:
- If you're the person being tunnelled… looks like you spend your match hanging out (literally), and attempting to run from the killer.
- If you're someone trying to help your teammate, you risk immediately being downed or having to body block, which is also toxic behaviour and reportable.
- If you try to burn gens, you just sit there doing skill checks while your teammate dies.
- And if you're the killer, you wait around the hook until someone comes in and you immediately run back and tunnel.
This kind of playstyle is ruining the game. Sure, you can say that I'm bad and should get better. Okay. But I don't see why I would bother getting better if the game is just going to be boring.
And unfortunately, many killers do this to be toxic. They tunnel at 5 gens, which ruins the game for others. I get it if the match is down to 2 gens with few hooks; as a killer, you need to reestablish pressure. But at 5 gens…. And every game???
I really hoping something can be done. I used to love this game, but now it's just frustrating and boring. I uninstall it regularly because I don't want to waste my time, but then I remember how good it used to be and try again. Only to be in 5/5 matches with someone who tunnels.
And before you say "stop crying, survivor main", I acknowledge I am a survivor main. I only play solo (I don't think I've played in a SWF for at least 5 years). I do, however, play killer (specifically Houndmaster and the Spirit), and I always avoid tunnelling because of how much I hate it on the other side and how boring it is to play for everyone. Some matches are a struggle, sure, but I often get 3 or 4 kills without tunnelling. I seldom even tunnel against a bully squad (likely because I'm not good enough).
I really hope the devs do something. It's not enjoyable when you face off with a tunneller and/or camper in every match. It's just boring and frustrating, which is not what I look for in a game. But maybe that's my problem. I have to be willing to accept this game is boring, repetitive, and frustrating if I want to play it.
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Body blocking is not toxic or reportable
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Yeah soloq can be particularly rough. It's barely possible for a good coordinated swf to counter hard tunneling, let alone soloq pubs who can't communicate. It's a sure win against soloq everytime.
And yeah tunneling is boring for literally everyone involved. Can't say I've ever fallen back on that tactic (apart from once trying to get my blight adept because I'm literal trash with blight) but i can't imagine anything more boring as killer than securing the win in 3-5 minutes and then stomping the last 3 players who have no chance of winning.
Sidenote: not sure about your comment about bodyblocking being reportable. It does list bodyblocking as reportable on the report menu. But survs trying to bodyblock the killer for protection purposes isn't against the rules. It's only reportable if it's being used to grief i.e. a killer bodyblocking a survivor into a corner so they can't move at all or survivors deliberately bodyblocking other survivors so they can't move or get hit by the killer.
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IDK some survivor opinions I post get downvoted as do my killer ones
That's just how it is here, suck it up lol2 -
A lot of people get confused by this one. Killers bodyblocking/trapping a survivor in a corner for an extended period of time is reportable (exception for endgame). Bodyblocking for a team mate, ie trying to take a protection hit, is not. Makes me wonder how many people report the latter to Support.
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People report for just about anything that makes them lose 🤣
I've been reported for guarding a gen, tunneling, running a good chase. If you play the game with any modicum of skill you'll get reported 🤣
Post edited by HoodedWildKard on3 -
And the rest of us pay the price when legit reports get clogged up 😩
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I think it is clear from this thread that many agree "hard tunnelling" is highly unenjoyable for the chosen survivor, and leads to an easy defeat for the killer. It's a cheese tactic for those who don't care about winning fair and square. Like someone else said, if you don't hard tunnel you still have a very good chance of winning anyway.
Survivors don't want an "easy win" but a fair one. The sooner a small but powerful mechanic is introduced to prevent that first survivor being immediately retargeted, the better. Not with "handholding" showing other survivors' auras or giving speed and points, but just flat out making it not worth going after that unhooked survivor.
I can only see this kind of hard tunnel protection improving matches for all, including killers who can develop their game sense and strategies.
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After they added the "Tab abandon" feature, I feel this is less of an issue. Yeah, it's crap but I tab out so fast and in 20 seconds I'm in another lobby. GG.
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sadly killer doesnt get the same courtesy from the devs. survivors get ot abandan to save their time while killer wait to basicy usher out the survivors if the match went horrible. I had a near 30 minute game because they did gens super fast so i stood in a corner and just went and got food and came back and the survivors were still in the match and i was only able to abandon because of the 10 minutes of the survivors not working on gens that insane that killers have to wait 10 minites of survivors holding the game hostage to abandon
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Killers need an abandon option once the doors are opened probably. They could in theory not open doors, in that case 5 minutes?
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Ya let them abandon after gates open or powered because endgame is basically lost for a large majority of build unless the survivors taunt you and alot of people would rather just take the lose and go to another game then have to open a gate and push out survivors.
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Well the game ends after 2 minutes, and you can open the gates yourself.
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Okay you have a bleed out timer and a hook timer its only 4 minutes and less then 140 seconds why do survivors need to abandon?
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And survivors can Plot Twist and make it longer too.
Killers should be able to resign in EGC. I have yet to hear a good reason for this to not exist.
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the reason survivors want to bm killer. there is no other reason that isn't just lying.
Post edited by Domicci on-6 -
Mainly because it just straight up ends the game on the spot. Personally idk why they haven't added killer bots to replace killers who DC.
and also in egc you can still secure a kill. I've done it a bunch of times, if i have someone in chase injured when gates open then i can usualy end them.
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For the killer, having a group of survivors body block a hook is incredibly frustrating.
And it is blatantly listed as a reportable option. So….
Yes… it is toxic. And yes… it is bannable.
Thanks for coming out.
I should also acknowledge that if that is your only response to all of my points… your opinion seems fairly irrelevant.-8 -
Protection hits and body blocking are not the same thing. Running in front of the killer to absorb a hit isn't the same as a squad of survivors blocking the killer from being able to hook. And when a killer is hard tunnelling, that's the only way to respond to break the hard tunnel.
And either way, I'll acknowledge that body blocking doesn't actually get banned. But that's less because it isn't a problem and more because the devs don't actually respond to issues in the game (i.e. hard tunnelling).
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Swarming the hook isn't "toxic". It's annoying, but it's also a strategy. Just because people don't like things doesn't make them toxic. This word gets thrown around way too casually.
The type of body blocking that's bannable has already been explained to you. It's the type where the other person is completely unable to act. This killer keeping me trapped in this corner until the other person bleeds out is what's bannable:
Killers can hit survivors and the game still progresses normally. It isn't possible to body block a killer in a bannable way becuase they can still act.
And here's a very old comment from Mandy explaining it as well:
And I have nothing to say to your other points because you aren't saying anything interesting.
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But why do we compare the gameplay of both sides you can play in an asymmetric game directly?
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They have killer bots already made for at least 2v8 so I dont understand why killer cant have an abandon system. The game won't end it would work like survivors and just spawn in a bot.
Post edited by Domicci on-3 -
Because they are the most similar thing both tactics splitting/rushing gens is survivors doing there role effectively while tunneling is the exact same thing the killer doing there role effectively. As you said its an asym which means the killers best play is to lessen the gap in players so going from a 1v4 to 1v3 is the best tactic. The only way to stop tunnelling with out giving and insane weapon swfs can use is you need to make hooking each survivor actually worth it but they have never seem to understand that full any try to use punishments that are lose loses because they also want you kill slugging which is the opposite of tunneling your trying to get everyone down at the same time but every time they add anti tunnel and slugging mechanic swfs abuse it to such a degree it makes killer the victim in those matches sense no matter what they do they lose (in the sense of they cant make a right choice every thing they try to help them win has a negative effect) while survivors can weaponize it because why wouldnt they the devs gave them it just like the unhooked survivors having base kit bt and still having collision meaning they can stop the killer from nkt tunneling them.
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The devs can't reward spreading hooks in a meaningful way alone. As long as tunneling stays the way it is, it'll still be the more effective way, and therefore Killers will continue to do it. The devs have tried to add rewards for spreading hooks with their not-so-thoroughly-tested tunnel reduction system, and Killers still lost their minds. The only way tunneling is going to be deterred is to make it less effective.
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As cogs just finessed, blocking the hook is no more bannable than tunneling. It's a viable, if annoying but also dreadfully risky tactic.
They aren't very specific about it in the report menu, but like we said (and as cogs showed a mod saying) bodyblocking is only againstvthe rules when it is used for griefing to prevent someone from moving at all for a theoretically indefinite period of time, or working with the killer to sandbag.
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It is a shame they removed some of the rewards for spreading hooks. I remember bbq used to provide a bloodpoint bonus if you hooked 2 different survivors in succession. No idea why they removed that motivation. Mimor though it may have been. Not like it broke the game.
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This crusade against trivial inconveniences in the name of "player satisfaction" tears down the the sense of community that DBD desperately needs to hold onto.
In a world in which so many feel isolated/alone, we need more reminders that our time and behavior are connected to and effect others, not less.1 -
Killers Who Play By the Survivor Rulebook: Ope, that survivor is obviously not very good at the game. I will be 100% fair and absolutely not take advantage of this situation. I am aware I may totally lose the game and the survivors may get a 4-man out, but The Survivor Rulebook is law.-4 -
Funnily enough that's how I feel about hard tunneling.
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it gave the killer a token everytime they hooked each survivor once and each token gave a 25% increase to BP gain in all categories (up to 100%).
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All they would need to do is either program the killer bot stand still until the match ends or go to check open gates and try to M1 any survivors in the area. That can be done easily for all killers, so there’s no excuse. Any honest player will admit that there is no good reason to force a killer player to stay in the match once the gates are open. Then match is over. Survivors get to DC for free once the match is over. Literally the only reason to force killer players to stay in the match once gates are open is increase the opportunities for teabagging at the exit gates. If someone wants to provide an actual legit reason to require killer to stay in the match, I’m happy to listen.
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