Why do killers slug for the 4k so much
I've been playing a lot more killer lately and I still don't get why some killer players will slug for minutes on end, often times going to such lengths as repeatedly picking up the 3rd survivor to prolong the game for a chance to find the 4th survivor. Like, I get it if you know where the last survivor is, even if they're halfway across the map, and you want the 4th kill. I do the same thing. But when you slug for the 4k without knowing where the last survivor is, you're basically spending minutes on end doing possibly the most boring thing in the game for a meaningless kill. On the survivor side, it's obviously worse, in my opinion it's more boring and sometimes frustrating than getting hard tunneled, proxi camped, or slugfests.
And your choices are to
1. wait for up to another full game's worth of time (depending on the killer's tactics) for the other survivor to bleed out or for the killer to get bored, in which time your likely to get caught, either from killer powers, perks, or AFK crows
2. hop on gens, maybe try to save the teammate, both of which will almost always get you both killed
3. eat a DC penalty so you can go next
4. get yourself killed so you can actually be free
It's a complete waste of time for both sides and robs any chance of the hatch function that exists for a reason to actually come into play, a function that already favors the killer, and even more so if it's a movement killer which ironically I seem to experience this with the most.
I genuinely just do not understand why players do this. On survivor, if I get hatch it's like a consolation prize. When I get it, it's like "hey, we might have lost the game but at least I got hatch!" Like it genuinely does feel like it makes a bit of a difference, because even if we lost I still escaped. When I play killer, a survivor getting hatch is the most "I literally don't care" experience ever. If I get the kill, I'm like "okay I get to see my mori, cool," and if I don't, the match is over just the same and it makes no difference. Either way, I have won the game, and a survivor getting a consolation prize in 1/4 endgames makes zero difference to me. Again, ironically, a lot of these players already run Ebony Moris, so they've already seen their mori several times just this game. I genuinely don't understand why people choose to play in this incredibly boring, time wasting way. I don't know what fix there would be but there has to be something.
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because it pleases them, the don't wanna see survivors going for the hatch or escape overall, they feel offended by that, for them "power role" should always win
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Because it is very safe to do. At worst they have the same outcome as before that the last Survivor finds Hatch first. But other than that, there is no risk at all in doing that, it is not like Survivors will make a comeback at this point, especially if there are still multiple Gens to be done.
And well, some Killers only consider it a win if they get a 4K, even if nobody would deny that they won with a 3K and Hatch Escape if not all Gens are done and the last Survivor gets the pity escape.
And last but not least - because BHVR is refusing to do something about it.
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If a killer is going for adept it is understandable. They could also be doing some other challenge made up by themselves.
I had a plague yesterday that refused to hook anyone, and bled almost everyone out. It took forever and did not earn her much blood points. The game gave me abandon option, but I stuck it out and escaped. Those unlikely escapes are rare but satisfying.
Who knows why people do the things they do? Who knows what darkness lies in the hearts of men?
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Yeah I mean the adept issue is an entirely different thing, many people have said that you should be able to get adept with a 3k. However, whenever I experience that is the very very small minority. Most people just do it cos, I don't know, they enjoy trapping survivors in a game with them? Some kind of kink maybe
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You can blame this whole 'lack of hatch function' thing on the Dev's when they added the abandon feature because they're more concerned about the Survivor experience then anything else.
Before this abandon feature happened the hatch came into play almost every game. Now? There's no ######### point to it. The moment the second to last survivor dies then the final survivor can just say 'Who cares' and leave without penalty
I use to actually like giving the last Survivor a hatch by carrying them but now Survivor get a free DC at the slightest inconvenience-9 -
Before the abandon feature, killers still slugged for the 4k. And, I might be wrong, but doesn't the abandon feature only activate either when you've been slugged enough or when the hatch is closed? Personally in my killer games, more than half the games the hatch comes into play, even if I find it instead of the survivor. I also still give hatch a good amount of the time because most survivors stick around when there's a chance to get hatch. But I might be wrong about the abandon feature
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No more then they do now. The problem is that now there's more tangible reason to Slug. If a Killer slugs 4 survivors as soon as possible then they're just going to abandon. Which means the Killer can also get out the game quicker. No hooking required
They never solved Go Next. They just made it more acceptable-7 -
So we are weighing the killers greed for an additional kill plus the Noe bonus against two survivors greed for the ezhatch escape.
You say the killer kill is meaningless... Funny. They think the same about 4th's escape.
But lets shame the killer for it, right? Theres multiple things to do to get a trial over with. But the survs stay.
The complains about 4k slugging just boils down to two things: 4th survivor wanting the hatch and 3rd survivor wanting to be 4th.
Survs want to escape by any means and killers want to kill by any means.
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Frankly, a big part of it is gates. I actually really like the hatch mechanic on both sides, and unless I'm really trying for the 4k for some reason I don't slug for it unless I know exactly where the last person is and can get them reasonably fast so I can specifically avoid giving people that frustrating wait. Despite hatch actually being an interesting little minigame, the moment I close hatch as killer the entire concept of last man standing goes from 'oh, this is a fun and interesting race to finish off the match' to a complete slog of an experience.
I don't really blame either party in a slug for 4k situation because if the killer tries to 4k the 'right' way and just hooks the second to last guy, they're forced to waste their own time in practically the same unfun situation, but the last survivor might just get a free escape instead. Either you CAN patrol or defend both of the gates, in which case you have to just waddle back and forth waiting for the survivor to show themselves, or you can't and you have to either just lose the last guy or risk an uninteresting 50/50 that feels unsatisfying even if you win it (and thats assuming the survivor doesn't just hide near a bad gate instead of going for hatch in the first place).
If you changed the end game after hatch close to something more fun, I guarantee you see less slugs for the 4k, because as it stands a killer's options when NOT doing that are either 'let the last guy escape' or 'deal with the same frustrating slog either way with no real reward for doing so'.-5 -
No idea. A 3k and a 4k is exactly the same for me and i enjoy the thrill of searching for the hatch with the last survivor. Most times i let them go.
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The killer has already won the game and slugs for minutes on end to…win the game anyways, just frustrating others and wasting their time. The survivors have lost and want the small consolation prize of escaping through hatch because at least it's a sort of small victory to them. If the solution for survivors in this scenario is that they are just expected to run into the killer's loving arms to avoid a terrible, boring, frustrating experience, then every frustrating experience as a survivor is no longer an issue.
Getting frustrated because you're being hard tunneled by a Ghoul at 5 gens? You should just let the killer kill you quicker, that's your fault. Getting frustrated because the Twins are slugging the entire lobby? You should just let the killer kill you quicker, that's your fault. On the reverse, getting frustrated because you're going against a bully squad abusing certain perks? It's your fault for trying, just give up.
If every issue's solution is the player's fault for not giving up, then players should just give up every time there's an unaddressed issue with the game and then it won't be an issue anymore. Not slugging for the 4k is not giving up, as not only have you won already, but in the majority of cases you get the kill anyway. Letting the killer kill you is giving up.
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"Why does the killer slug for the 4k?" I dunno chief why do the survivors always wait at the exit to give the killer some undeserved bags?
And don't try to tell me it ain't the same thing because then that's what we call double standards.
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No idea. I get it when you are hunting an achievement like adepts, but outside of that that just another way to be annoying to someone. I don't personally buy the argument of 4k = win, because 3k is the same as 4k. Like you won already and all of us like to get to the next match. Just get the 3k and if you are lucky, you find the hatch before the survivor.
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Absolutely. The answer is the majority of players are pieces of ######### lol
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Intentional waiting and T-bagging for the killer yes, but I usually wait until I see other survivors are safely on the other exit gate and can also escape. Just remember that it's not always just waiting to frustrate killers. But if you see this right in front of you then yes, you are absolutely correct.
"Always" is a strong word and I don't believe for a second that this happens to you on every match. No shot.6 -
"Always" is a strong word and I don't believe for a second that this happens to you on every match. No shot.
It happens very often when survivors are at the gates waiting for killer or when killer is going after them (survivors intentionally stay at gates until you injure them and t-bag while you haven't, so time wasting) and you might say that a killer "always" tunnels but it does as well happens often but not "always".
The thing where a survivor waits to safe the team and maybe heal is not the issue, like when a killer camps at the end game, survivors can stay at the gates and try to safe the teammate but after the safe then survivors often t-bag and don't leave immediately, meaning time wasting.
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Ok, i'll give you the "always" might be slight hyperbole on my part, some of the time they are swinging on hooks or waiting for me to find them after they slugged off into god knows where 😅
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The hatch has been heavily nerfed in killer favor, and many have stopped it from spawning entirely now. I don't know why the devs have allowed that to continue. There's a number of ways to stop it. They could give survivors manual bleedout speed-ups under certain circumstances, similar to letting go on hook. They could have hatch spawn if one of the last two people has been on the ground for more than 30s. They could make it so slugs can stand up under similar circumstances too. All things that would encourage a killer to hook instead. But for now, killers do it because they're allowed to, and because many feel entitled to a full team wipe if they win.
I have to say though, for me, there has been much less of this than there used to be. I had a match yesterday against a streaming killer who I got hatch against and I went and watched his footage after because I'd expected the slug and it didn't happen. He tunneled, talked a lot of crap, called my random teammates horrible at the game, talked about how great he himself was, said "easy" after downing a person who gave up, and then after all that he didn't care about the hatch at all. He actually just stood around and killed his zombies, saying "I just want the 3k, I'm not going to take the hatch from Felix." I was really surprised about how whatever he was about it after playing like that. You just never know how people are going to be.
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Ego.
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Some people stay there until you injure them to give you points. It's not always malicious, believe it or not.
But is "survivors waste my time tbagging so I'll waste their time slugging" supposed to be an excuse for slugging for the 4k?
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"i got tbagged in hatch once and now everybody must suffer my wrath!"
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All survivors are actually the same person.
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I can see how they're similar in that they're frustrating and waste time, but I don't think they are nearly the same thing. The survivors are on a timer that cannot be changed no matter what. The only thing they can possibly do is Plot Twist or die to mending at the exit gates to slow down the timer, which I don't think I've ever seen. The killer can also end this at any time by hitting them out, and sometimes (because they're idiots) they'll give you a free kill.
In addition, survivors wait at exit gates the vast majority of the time to buy time to make sure the other survivors can get out, or to give the killer points for hits and get a few points themselves for chase and protection hits. Even when I'm playing killer and every once in a while a survivor t-bags at an exit gate, I often figure that there's a good chance it's to bait me into hitting them out to buy their teammates time.
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't feel great to be t-bagged at an exit gate and it can be frustrating, but I wouldn't compare it to slugging for the 4k. I think the comparable alternative to that would be the killer humping a downed survivor, especially at the end of the game. I don't really see how having to push some survivors out of an exit gate while they're t-bagging you maybe 1 minute later than they should have left initially (although usually when this happens in my experience, they do it after getting chased to the exit gate and I'm immediately able to push them out) makes it okay to keep survivors in games for 5+ minutes after the match could have ended.
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@SpyUA When I play killer getting t-bagged at the exit gate can be frustrating, but at least I can do something about it. I can just push them out, and occasionally get a free kill because of their idiocy. The same didn't use to be the same with being humped by the killer, but now it is, with the survivor now eventually getting the abandon feature. The same is still not true with slugging for the 4k though, where perhaps the 3rd survivor on the ground can abandon eventually, but the 4th survivor is forced to wait for 4+ minutes, or get themselves killed.
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@cogsturning Yeah I mean the suggestion to have the option to bleed out faster has been a suggestion I've seen for probably 4 years and it still hasn't happened. Like this isn't an impossible or even that complicated of a situation to fix, there are ways to address it, they just haven't been done yet
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And they t-bag while giving the blood points 😭, sure ig
The second bit is not what I said and you kinda showing double standards that one side should never waste survivors precious time while they are wasting it by not leaving in a different match (when the whole team is safe and there's no need stay), I personally slug for the 4k when survivors were toxic or it's a bully squad or when I know roughly the last survivors position as I saw them there or something like that and sometimes I know exactly where it is like I had slugged someone but I saw the other guy really far so it was easy and quicker to just get the last survivor, believe it or not but survivors when slugged also waste their time even more as an example if I went to chase the last survivors and the other is slugged but they crawl away to a corner of the map and I kill the last one then I cannot find the slugged one to end the match and they are complaining about slugging after doing that.
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There's no one reason for it.
Some do it because it's a logical way to secure a win.
Some do it to get salt from survivors
Some survivors even throw insults in endgame chat for NOT doing it and losing, I've had that happen a few times.
Heck, some do it because of nerfs to their killer, so they feel like it evens the odds.
And some simply do it because the gens fly too fast on certain maps/setups as well as pallet density.You can easily say 'Well I play killer and don't need to', I personally don't rely on slugging unless all the survivors are flocking me while injured trying to get a flashy save, but I find half the time it's nothing personal when I play survivor and the killer does it. You also have to take into account what killer is doing it, how easy it is for them to do it, and if lower tier killers rely on it for snowballing. It's just how it goes sometimes.
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This forum talks about slugging for the 4k when the killer already has the 3k secured, not slugging in general.
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i only do it for an adept or if there is a challenge that requires me to close the hatch or a 4k. Otherwise i don’t got time to wait. 3k is a win. Rather be in a new match quicker than hunting the last survivor for who knows how long.
Times limited in this life, and as much as i don’t want to waste my own time playing hide and seek i find it is kind of selfish making another play wait on the floor when they could be in the next game already.
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There are valid reasons to do this. I play survivor at least half the time, so trust me I’ve been slugged for the 4K plenty of times. But I also play killer, so I understand why killers do it. 1) some people just feel more sense of accomplishment getting 4K vs 3K. There’s nothing wrong with that as everyone has a different definition of what is successful game; 2) as others have said, challenges that require 4K; 3) probably the biggest reason in my experience is that survivors will very often wait at the hatch and t-bag until you force them out. Slugging for 4K denies them the opportunity to do that.
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Still applies.
I didn't even mention the biggest reason though, and that's Adept runs.-5 -
Killers simply have little reason to let hatch spawn, because it's just an rng mechanic that may give survivors an escape they likely would not have had otherwise. On top of that, the game also just doesn't force a conclusion when there's only 1 survivor left standing which also contributes to this.
If you want to remove slugging for 4Ks, then we need to remove hatch and create a 1v1 standoff when there is only 1 survivor standing. BHVR is implementing a 1v1 mode so we have a basis for what a 1v1 standoff could be. We have the void for events which can allow BHVR to create showdown arenas with fresh resources.
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I feel the same. At 3K I've won. If the fourth is right there then I down the third I'll go for them, but I'm not gonna waste my own time to spend minutes scouring the map while the third is just lying there. I'll still try to kill the fourth in the hatch search, but I'm unbothered if they end up getting out.
Honestly, it's just crazy tde when people slug for the 4K, I think. Like the need to keep anyone from leaving the map not on their terms is just kinda sad, imo. Just take the W and go next.
I suppose the one exception here for me used to be if the fourth surv played like a total rat the whole game, then I might have tracked them down and let the third one go. But now they'll just both abandon 90% of the time in that scenario, so I don't bother.5 -
I can only speak for myself, but generally ill slug if either I have an idea where the 4th survivor is due to scratch marks that'll disappear if I hook... or if the standing survivor used a secret offering. I'd much rather hook the secret offering guy and both me and the last survivor have a CHANCE at hatch than the secret offering guy be the last one alive and basically guarantee an escape cuz it was a hatch offering.
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I think the exact moment I stopped caring about 4ks was when BBQ no longer offered bonus BP for fresh hooks
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It's not a double standard. The sides aren't equal. The killer has more control over the clock than survivors. If the killer slugs for the 4k they can wait until right before the bleedout, pick up, and let the person break free and keep dragging out the match. It's even worse when it's a bot. At the gates, the survivors can either leave when the killer hits them or die. There's also end game collapse.
I also never said anyone shouldn't waste anyone else's time. Time isn't my issue, it's behavior. The problem is people use some random person's actions in a match to act out in a different match. Survivors aren't a hive mind. When everyone is safe, I leave. I never linger. Doesn't stop killers from humping me or hitting me on hook because someone tbagged them once. I'd honestly rather people say "I don't care how other people feel or how much of their time I waste" than run with these goofy excuses.
And yeah you better believe if you slug me for the 4k I'm going to crawl away and try to bleedout, since bleedouts don't count as kills. And the only thing I have the power to do in that situation is rob you of your kill.
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yeah, the reason why a 3rd survivor who is slugged for a prolonged period of time will crawl so far is either to have a chance at hatch themselves or to rob the killer of a kill because it's the only thing they can do. it's just another case of "why won't survivors just let me kill them"
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It is so insanely satisfying to slide down the hatch when slugged. That's another solution they could implement. If someone is on the ground when the second to last person dies then the hatch spawns within a certain radius.
But yeah excepting someone to just wait there like a good dog while you go do your thing is peak entilement. "Why won't they just let me kill them" indeed.
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Ego. A 3k + hatch is still a killer win. I couldn't imagine wasting my time, and the time of two other people, for something that matters so little. No one's gonna be talking about my 4ks at my funeral. No one cares.
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If killers viewed it as a waste of time they wouldn't do it. Apparently there's some value in it for them.
Sometimes the fourth survivor is the one we want dead but keep finding the third. The third will continue repairing gens allowing the fourth a chance at the gate. Kill the third and get the fourth standing on hatch until the killer gets within striking distance.
If you want to know why, sometimes it's because they just had 4 out against survivors that taunt at the gate.
Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.
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hatch escapes exist in a quantum superposition where they don't count and the killer won when it's a conversation about slugging to avoid them but they do count when the survivor gets one and spams ez in postgame
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You can push them out instead of standing there and getting mad at a problem you can solve
Being slugged means you can't do anything but move at a snails pace. Even if you were to get picked up, you'd get downed within a minute and the cycle starts over.
It's not the same.1 -
Ahh yes the classic "the killer gotta take the abuse, just suck it it up".
Nope, if the killer has to get BM'd when they lose then the survivors can get the same, dont like being slugged? Just Tab out and watch YouTube then.
There, matched energy for energy and everything is balanced once more.
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I think the sentiment was the opposite, that if you don't like the t-bagging at least you're able to stop it and move on to the next game. Tabbing out and watching YouTube is not the same at all. You have no power to stop it or move on, you just have to wait and take it up the rear until you can abandon, you bleed out, or everyone else gets killed, which could be anywhere between a couple minutes and potentially a game's worth of time. And your suggestion is to just not play the game and watch YouTube instead in that period of time. I don't think that's exactly a solution or balanced if you're going to compare the two
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Still double standards.
Why should the killer have to either wait out the EGC timer or subject themselves to BM'ing and that is considered ok but a survivor cannot be expected to wait on the floor for a few minutes?
In all honesty both actions are rather distasteful but I still believe both situations are balanced in terms of misery.-3 -
so what exactly is stopping you from pushing them out though? Outside of getting too mad to even look at a crouching animation, of course.
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Nothing, but that doesn't answer the question does it? Why? Why should a killer HAVE to do it?
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So if nothing is stopping you, why is it a problem? Can you not handle seeing a crouching animation for a couple seconds?
Why should a survivor lay on the floor for 4 minutes because a killer has an ego, as opposed to 10 seconds of smacking them out?-1 -
How often is it the slug is actually down for 4 minutes?
The only time that happens is if the slugged survivor decides to slide off to gods know where and proceed to complain "ugh killer gonna bleed me out for 4minutes" at which point that's on the survivor.
Also I don't get tilted half as much as you seem to think I do about bags but then you also seem to think its about the animation, no, its about the intentions behind that action, the meaning being conveyed the only way a sore winner knows how.-5
