Survivor Perk Changes Feedback
Comments
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The "WoO only helps casuals and new players" have been proven false over and over tho.
It does help them and that is true. However it also does help experienced players by knowing which pallets have been used by other survivors while they were in chase. And that can totally win a chase over the killer.
I see a lot of experienced players (even streamers with thousands and thousands of hours) get downed on a tile because they went there and they didn't know that the pallet was used and detroyed already. With WoO they could just go into a much more safe tile and keep the chase going on.
I wouldn't say WoO was honestly "overpowered", but it was very, very good and nerf worthy.
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And that can totally win a chase over the killer.
I think it's more accurate to say that it denies them free, RNG-based wins.
but it was very,
verygood and nerf worthy.The only reason it's considered 'good' is because the standard for survivor perks is almost negative. There's a reason behind the initial drafts of both Invocations and Steadfast having been what they were.
Windows of Opportunity is also a chase perk, and by that trait, it's an in-your-face kind of perk of which the effect is noticeable. There could be other perks knocking kill rates down more, but as long as those perks do so out of sight of killers, they won't cultivate the same animosity that any survivor perk with a pickrate above 0.5% that fires in the killer's face does.
The fact that a perk as innocuous as Windows of Opportunity is not just getting nerfed, but getting crippled is just the perk balance jumping the shark.
This nerf is going to move another perk that's unchanged but will see an increased pickrate (because survivors have to pick -something- up to fill the now empty slot) up from C-tier to 'This is very, very good and nerf worthy'.
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Of course another perks will rise in popularity with these nerfs. This happens with both sides and its pretty normal on a live service game like this.
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I never said WoO only helps newcomers/casuals, nowhere in my feedback do I imply that the better players/SWF don't benefit from it at all, but the difference is massive.
As I said in my post, SWF and experienced players know the spawns and/or can call out deadzones and key pallets used, something that SoloQ and less experienced players do not have. And they do so with no distance limit.
It's true that good players also benefit from it, it can fill in the gaps in awareness somewhat, but it's a comfort perk rather than a near-necessitty in order to be able to have a vague idea of where to go, and more importantly where to not go. It also doesn't help in actually using the resources correctly or looping at all.
Again, the point wasn't that it only helps newcomers/casuals/SoloQ, the point is that it makes the experience much smoother for them, slightly reduces the gap with experienced SWF, and is a great way to learn the spawns over time until WoO becomes a comfort perk rather than a vital one
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The problem isn't the popularity rise, the problem is that the perk that does get that rise in popularity is going to also suddenly become 'very, very good, worthy of nerf' without 1) ever having been a problem in the last 3 years and 2) getting any changes.
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But if i am not mistaken what BHVR have been doing, and said it by themselves, is just to "shake the meta". If a perk is meta, they can nerf it. If a perk is not meta, they can buff it.
So you are saying exactly what the devs do.
Also, i think that "something that has never been changed means is not problematic" is a common misconception. There are many things (perks or killers) that haven't been changed for years and years and they are still problematic.
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I think the issue here is how you perceive the perk in comparison to me. You said it that once you get used to the spawns the perk becomes a comfort one, while i think that even after knowing the spawns the perk is still extremely good, much better than 80%-90% of the survivor perks.
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I think one of the important things to remember here is that when it comes to a given perk's perception, the situation is rarely binary. Not only are Killer and Survivor perspectives equally valuable, but different experience levels, different preferred playstyles, and many other factors can impact feedback. So just to be clear, I appreciate the different POVs here. It's not lost on me that there's a lot of debate about WoO, so just know that we've been noting it down and sharing with the team.
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But if i am not mistaken what BHVR have been doing, and said it by themselves, is just to "shake the meta". If a perk is meta, they can nerf it. If a perk is not meta, they can buff it.
So you are saying exactly what the devs do.
Firstly, this is a subject switch. I was specifically talking about WoO allegedly being 'worthy of nerf'. Being 'meta' has nothing to do with that.
Secondly, as you mentioned, there's two ways to change the meta, and that's something my complaint about WoO not being worthy of nerfs to begin with does allude to: You can either nerf the top or buff the bottom.
The problem here is that the top for the killer side is not getting nerfed, since Pain Res has been the undisputed top perk effectively since its inception and it is not getting addressed, while for the survivor side, the bottom is barely getting buffed. Most of the survivor perk buffs in this patch are revamps to compensate for Diminishing Returns annihilating a lot of these perks.
That's something that follows from WoO not being a particularly strong perk, or a nerf-worthy one: The fact that it's still getting such a high pickrate just shows that the overwhelming majority of survivor perks are below a bar that is already really low.
Again, we got those initial ideas for Invocations and Steadfast for a reason.
Survivor perks are, by and large, exceptionally situational, or hampered by an excessive amount of drawbacks that make none of them a particularly good, or at the very least consistent pick.
Also, i think that "something that has never been changed means is not problematic" is a common misconception.
I specifically marked those two things as -separate- clauses.
Windows was never problematic until everything around it got nerfed down, and it also did not get buffed to catapult it into being problematic. It's emblematic of a constantly lowering ceiling for survivor perks.
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The best way to "shake the meta" is to add viable options, not just take them away. BHVR tend to do the latter. This killer perk update adds options, and is great. The survivor perk updates take away options and give nothing back.
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Exactly. A Meta Shake up requires at least that Perks gets strong enough to compete with the Meta. And depending on the Meta, it also requires to lower that Meta a bit. Survivors dont get anything which is worth running, but get some Perks nerfed. Killers on the other hand get some interesting Perks for the Meta, while not losing any of their Meta-Perks.
Basically, weak Perks buffed, strong Perks nerfed is what they already did before. Sprint Burst and Vigil got obliterated, Deliverance nerfed. And the Buff Survivors got was 1 second more for Adrenaline, which nobody cares about.
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Is there any reason why for the killer meta shakeup they got new strong perks that are worth being in the meta while survivors got nothing of note and only had meta perks removed?
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Shoulder only activating once across all survivors is perfectly fine, even if people CANNOT communicate, because them having it still provides value if the other person running shoulder gets hooked first. They should NOT remove that part of the PTB version.
If anything, just bring the exposed back and make it only activatable once per match across all survivors.0 -
Why is Shoulder the Burden allowed to happen more than once per game? It is so rare this scenario would happen in solo q.
And it happens way more in SWFs, so limiting the perk to once per match helps close the gap between solo q and SWF.
And that massive SWF win streak had multiple shoulder the burden for a reason.
Are survivors allowed to have high risk high reward perks, that they might not be able to use every game?
Please have the next PTB feedback on Discord and Reddit. If you look at today’s feedback on Discord about being able to use this perk multiple times per match, it’s clear that Discord has a much more realistic view of this perk.
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