Marth experiment
Answers
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Just the fact you posted they were using toolboxes alone proves your a bit full of it, seeing as the experiments was done entirely with no items at all.
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Your really not helping your own argument when your making it further and further on how obviously your full of it..
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I love that the whole "no sirvivor plays like this" is still a thing
Obviously survivors dont play like this if they dont need to. But they could, anytime. Which could be counted as a problem with the balance.
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I think they are referring to the tourney where Marth reached the hatch before the survivor and thought he had won by the tourney's rules. He hit the survivor, she took the hatch, and then suddenly the rules were changed to force a loss on Marth's team.
You know, the official one that Behavior had a hand in.
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It is a problem with the balance. The fact that most survivors aren't playing efficiently is no excuse not to balance them according to their most efficient strategy.
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I was avoiding calling it a problem directly because survivors get triggered fast.
Its no secret that survivors get balanced around the bottom of the barrel and demand killers to be balanced around the pro players.
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Not what i meant
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Should i watch more?
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It's no secret you lot want all killers to be balanced around the rank 20 potatoes, there fixed it for you.
The actual fact of the matter is most of the playerbase is bottom of the barrel and that's probably around 70%. Also the so called pro caliber players are more on the killer side anyways.
The mythical swat teams are if we use the last 4 man swf groups was a small % of the 9% of the 4 man swf lobbies.
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Theres been a massive amount of changes to the game since this happened.
I would like to see it happen again nowadays.
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I want killers to be balanced around the top survivors AND killers. Why would any killer want to be balanced around rank 20 survivors? That'd only mean nerfs for killers.
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That would be true if you could pip by only doing gens and getting out.
The fact the devs want people to play around says otherwise.
You simply can't balance a game around what can happen when it doesn't as that means 99% of the playerbase loses out.
It's a game it is meant to be fun and balancing the game around the 1% would remove most of the fun.
The same goes for balancing around the 1% of killer who steamroll survivors in 3 mins, could you imagine if they balanced the killer side on them?
Marth himself has made rank 1 killer multiple times perkless but for some reason that doesn't show how people actually play.
Balance isn't just about making it adhere to the worst case but finding the middle ground, balance needs enought weight at either end so neither side falls.
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@Orion yeah i knew it ! Survivors refuse to play efficiently. Everytime i crush survivors is because they refuse to have easy win.
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All games should be balanced at the top. This is game design 101. Balance for casuals, and mid ranks will be balanced, while the game will be severely tilted one way or the other at the top.
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It kinda feels like you just made this thread to call Marth a fatass and throw shade @ OP
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Competent killers shouldn't need to run "OP" builds to... hell an average killer shouldn't have to run their best stuff if survivors (which you stated the depip squad isnt all that great) are able to go perkless and have great success.. this is evidence that the game is highly unbalanced @artist
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Yet killers can go perkless and still 4k, Freddy, Amanda, Trapper, Nurse etc if the person is competent and knows how to play them they can do well.
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When they did that? give me link
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"Their level of play" is not that hard to achieve.. its mainly just doing the objective as fast as possible.. it's not hard to just do gens... being able to complete the gens as fast as they have just shouldn't be possible.... with the new end game coming games are going to feel super Fookin short when survivors play this way
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@slayer for which one?
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any
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when did I say that? what's so hard about understanding you're going to need a strong killer with a good build to compete with a stronger team (a team you will get less than 10% of the time)? yes the game is unbalanced. for both sides. people will run those types of builds you listed against your average solo player, and a swf will stack 4 mom's vs a wholesome wraith
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That only works when they properly seperate the user base.
Take the games such as overwatch, LOL, cs:go etc they don't put newbies in with the best players.
Dbd on the other hand does and resets it each month so it may be 101 in those above but not in this game.
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That's an issue with the ranking system, which does not get resolved by butchering the game's balance.
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So you would rather they butcher the gameplay for the 99% instead?
That simply doesn't work and why it's not been done.
Balance isn't just about gameplay, it's about your demographic and how you balance the game to suit them all with ones such as these.
There is no way to balance the game when someone with 5k hours can play with someone with 40 hours and the user base is not large enough to work when splitting it up.
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I'd rather people didn't try to use "this is broken" as an excuse for breaking everything or keeping things broken.
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Exhaustion Perks were in the game long before the experiment started, not sure what point you're trying to make, especially considering that they also did perkless trials.
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So in over 300 games, all but a handful of R1 Killers were bad? Yeah right.
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Isn't that what most players are doing? Saying something is broken even when the stats go against it but due to the tiniest minority of players doing something its being deemed as broken even thought its not the actual reality?
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in all those games, did every killer use an op build? obviously not, and that's what I was talking about. you have to be bad to lose with a build like that. try reading
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also it wasnt the same killer either. they were going against randos that wasnt practicing 300 games in a row. try going agianst the SAME killer 300 times with an op build and gets to know how they play. id like to see that in todays dbd.
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@DocOctober exhaustion perks no longer recover while running. Show me games where they went perkless and what killers it was against
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My career in dbd: about 1000 games and ive met only one swf that completely crashed me so after that game i learned that i need to bring op build into trial when against swf.
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Where re those 300 games i see only 100 and in which of those they went perkless and what killers against?
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Yeah marth also made it to rank one perkless as low tier killer . Game is totally unbalanced lol
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Imagine being this salty and a year late to the convo.
Grow up, OP.
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While true you're comparing a battleship to a dingy here in terms of size if you get right down to it. Both League and OW have massive player bases and can support regular and ranked play.
DBD is still too small unless there was true platform play but even then high ranks lobby times would be absolute nuts. I mean just look at League, High Diamond and Challenger can have upwards of an hour wait times.
For DBD to be able to do this the player base has to get much larger so that when you split the majority of the player base off which is the casuals. You then don't skewer the remaining hardcore players.
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It's really not difficult to find them on YouTube, put in some effort.
As for your "you just need to take OP builds against SWF" statement:
1) We can't reliably tell if Survivors are in SWF or not.
2) OP builds are not sustainable.
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Playlist for perkless
"https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoJokCjX7gozpIVDM1qjmXSC7M1SXSP3C"
Just go to Marth'ss profile on YT and find his playlists, how werent people able to do so?
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@DocOctober i suggest you to bring swf to play at least 30-50 games against me and see how killer can still do good against survivors cheating. What do you say? Prove how killer are up with your play not words. Perkless addonless play.
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Challenge Marth and the Depip Squad then. Last time they conducted the experiment, they invited community members to pose as the Killer, I'm sure they'll offer that again.
I myself have nothing to prove to you, the evidence is out there and if you have a problem with it, you are surely welcome to participate in the experiment once it starts back up and go up against the depip squad.
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@DocOctober theres no any evidence you re delusional.
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Did you run out of arguments or why are you going ad hominem now?
Watch the depip squad videos, they are all available to your critical eyes. There are also the excel documents Marth created with the material provided by their trials. You can read through those as well.
And once the experiment goes into another round, ask to join as the Killer and show your supposed skills.
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@DocOctober have you read what opinion i am of those? If you rather hide behind someone elses back when i asked you to prove your words your opinion worth #########. If you re not good then maybe you shouldnt open your mouth as to why one side is not balanced in first place?
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So what I am reading here OP is your asking people for proof when yet you have none yourself. Sounds like to me to me your probably a new player to the game. During these experiements we had it open to people that were notable and wanted to snipe us. Some names for example
Scottjund - Played us during our perkless experiment but refused to play us with perks.
King Dime - One of the OG billies back in the day comparable to Zubat. Played us I think 3 times and he tried to throw EVERYTHING at us each time and couldn't muster the strength.
Multiple Nurses with omega, multi blink etc. This was the killer that gave us the most trouble. Why because it is the nurse nothing else needed there. One of them being Blinkybill. We also faced the Swiftlegend during the anniversary tournament and i think it as a 4 man or 3 man escape.
We faced other billies RyanPez, Griff other notable killers in the community.
The issue with this game is what makes these killers great is NOT that they 4k every game. It is the fact that they can take advantage and punish mistakes of survivors hard and many others that are like you that trash talked the experiment and they stepped up and failed. Here is the thing I don't mention these names to bash but to show that even great killers struggle against survivors with how this game is if there even semi competent. Let me break it down for you.
The object of this game for survivors is to finish 5 generators to power doors. A killer can only chase 1 survivor at a time. A good survivor can easily be chased for 1 min + if they are actually good. So by the time the first hook happens the other 3 survivors are split and are completing or have completed 3 gens. Survivors death timer on hook is 120 seconds. 60 sec per phase. There are a bunch of theories of don't chase the good survivor know when to break off etc the thing is if you facing a good team. That plan doesn't work at all. Now add all of the 2nd chance perks the developers have given survivors to help them along for when the make mistakes. I know because they carried they hell out of us during these experiments. These 2nd chance perks are designed for casuals but rip the game a part at high skill game play.
Edit---
We ran 3 different Experiments, 100 games of no perks or Items but with comms; 100 games of perks and items with No comms. These 2 experiments all we cared about was getting out ASAP and leaving a man behind was fine
Then the 3rd experiment. Comms, Perks and Items. The catch was we actually had to try to save our team mates... Out of 100 games. We only had 25 deaths. This means a killer AVG 1 kill every 4 games against us... We didn't use insta heals or BNP during the making of this experiment.
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have you asked someone like provengeance to go against you for a 100 game experiment? he does not ######### around and i would like to see how your team can go against a killer that knows what to expect from your squad. or maybe a good nurse with offering/addon all games?
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That name sounds very familiar, my memory due to my health is really bad as of late but I think we did run into him several times. We have competed in many tournaments vs many notable killers. Most of the killers I named above KNEW exactly what was coming and threw kitchen sinks at us and only Scott was able to get 2 of us during our no perk / item experiment, but even with us having nothing. He was stuggling to keep up with the pressure. Just in the end we made a careless mistake and didn't have the perks to protect that mistake. The thing is I am a bad survivor at this game in terms of the chase. I know the basics and the mechanics but my execution is horrible. As many of the survivors I consider strong can pick my survivor apart on what I do wrong. I set out to prove that the objective for survivor is very easily done if survivors CHOOSE to do so and with everything survivors have killers clock is against them before the game even loads
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the challenge is to prove it to random survivor scrubs :)
i know u were trying to do another experiemnt but i think some health probs get in the way. hope u get better my ddude.
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@marth88gaming My issue isn't with your test but how it's being done, you can't take 4 players each with 4-8k hours played and say it's valid against random killers. Against the top tier talent it's much more valid.
Since you'll run into as you even stated in the Macmillan Estate run against that Huntress it was a baby killer. You had quite a few of those matches where the person was obviously doing a daily on a killer they didn't know how to play.
To do a true test you'd need more controls and perhaps take in 4 people with the baseline average hours played of the playerbase. So for example you take 4 people with 600 hours played.
Those 4 people play 100 games with the same rules you followed perkless and addonless and gen rush only. Then take say 4 with 1k hours etc and repeat the process and from there you'd have a much better data set.
But again given the pipping system is still too easy a lot of killer will just get hosed since even now the skill level of some is boosted. Perhaps doing a kyf type thing would work better once dedicated servers come out.
Then you have the simple fact that your chances of facing an actual depip type squad in normal non experimental gameplay is slim. The mythical swat teams as they're called are few and far between.
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The fact that there are still people out there that call the Depip Squad's experiment invalid honestly amazes me.
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