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My Thoughts on Post-Patch Legion
[My History and Thoughts about Past Legion]:
Now before anyone starts going wild in the comments about this, no I didn't abuse Legions moonwalking bug, no I didn't use Franks Mixtape or Stab Wound Study every match, (FM didn't need to be with Stab Wound Study anyways) and no i'm not here to whine or complain about Legions Nerf/Buff. This is just a summary of my thoughts as a day one user for Legion when he was first launched and during the PTB.
To me, Legion was unique. He was a jack of all trades with Nurses fatigue timer, Billys map pressure speed, and his ability to apply constant damage to a team of survivors. He was in a way, a very unique rush down killer as I saw him and I liked him for that (as one of the only few who did like Legion when it was a massively unpopular opinion at the time.)
People who know me will know I try to see a fair game in any trial i'm in, regardless of any killer I use. So as such a built various builds around Legion and eventually got one that stuck. The basics were that i'd have 4 perks to maximize Legions full potential in a trial without abusing his core mechanics.
For one i'd use Thanatophobia as at the time he was able to apply injured states all across the board in every match he was in, this allowed me to slow the game down and force survivors to heal in the process which kept their attention off generators.
Next is BBQ and Chili because Legion was at the time one of the best point farmers out of any killer, so it was a way to maximize his payout at the end of every match.
After that came Discordance to aid in Thanatophobia and keep survivors from doing generators while also providing an idea of several survivors locations.
And last was Nurse's Calling to tie the whole build together. Thanato would apply pressure to heal while Nurse's would give me and idea of where each survivor was within 24 meters of range so I can get downs more effectively.
This build was ideal and in my eyes fair, but some may disagree because "Why would healing constantly be fun for both sides?" and well to that I have to say that's a half truth. It can get boring to do that, but it was a better alternative to use than abusing the moonwalk bug or just simply destroying everyone with OP Add-ons such as Franks Mixtape, it wasn't really my goal... My goal was to just try to make a unfair killer more fair so people would enjoy matches with him more.
[My Thoughts on How Legion is Now]:
To be honest, I dislike what hes become. Of course most of the patches for the add-ons were well needed so I understand 100%, and balances to his powers were also required. But how he is currently? He feels gutted to be honest... A former shell of what made him a unique killer in the first place, he wasn't a insta-Chainsaw Billy, he wasn't a Pro Nurse, he wasn't a dream chaser like Freddy, he was just simply a rush down killer that was a unique take from what we were given in the past.
And I feel that making him the way he is just makes him another M1 killer to me, he doesn't feel unique anymore and that makes me kinda sad. I can agree that people who abused him got their just deserts and now they can abuse his mechanics anymore but... I feel if he was taken into account more thoroughly we could of kept what he used to be... But now in my eyes at least hes just another M1 killer and hes just mid-tier forever because of it.
He in some regards could of been top tier and he could of been bottom tier, it all depends on how people used his and the situations hes put in to maximize his effectiveness in each trial. I feel some people missed the point of that, or that could be just me.
[Community's Thoughts Pre-PTB and Post-PTB]:
Lets be fair, most the community hated Legion. I think people hated him more than people hated Doctor when he first came out and when Doctor was around after his launch before Legion was even thought about.
In the PTB it was expected that a killer such as Legion would need various changes done to fix what people hated about him, but I feel BHVR didn't really change much in the PTB and or the core issues Legion had before they launched him. I think I remember it being something about Legions Frenzy timer being changed or something (Don't quote me on that i'm not 100% sure.)
I cannot describe though how people hated Legion with a passion. Post after post after post on everyone's issues with this killer, of course some were reasonable and made sense, but then people started over-exaggerating his powers and how "OP" he was. I used to believe Legion had a counter, but i'm not sure looking back on it now. I feel he somewhat had no counter in reality and it was either sink or swim on if the Legion you faced was good or not.
People see Legion now as a "trash" killer, a bottom tier junk killer that can't do anything now. Which I don't agree with since hes just a regular M1 killer now tbh, if you've played any killer you've played a M1 killer, its not inherently hard to down survivors with a few mind games and decisive thinking. Does that mean any M1 killer can be top tier? No, i'm speaking from a general player base... casuals if you will. Survivors that know what their doing will be able to outplay any M1 killer, thats why most M1 killers have powers to assist them but it doesn't take away from what they really are... an M1 killer at face value.
Legion wasn't that, he was a unique rush down killer, now hes just an average M1 killer with a gutted rush down mechanic. (I feel the community also shifted from hating him to complaining about his nerf or at least that's what I've seen as of late. Which confuses me since people WANTED these nerfs so...?)
[Conclusion]:
Legions just a solid Mid-Tier killer now as most M1 killers are, nothing about him is inherently special anymore in my opinion. He has what used to make him special but to me it feels gutted, and now instead of being Bottom/Top Tier in some regards, hes just Mid-Tier. And to me that kinda sucks from someone who's played him from his launch to now.
I didn't post this right when the Patch came out cause I was still gone for 3 Months, so this is how I think of him after the dust has cleared from that patch.
[TL;DR]:
I expect to get hate from this since Legion is a very unpopular killer Pre and Post patch. But Legions now just an average M1 killer, hes just a shell of his former "glory." I agree most of the changes are good since it fixed a lot of the core issues people complained about, but what made him a unique rush down killer is now gone. Now hes just Mid-Tier I guess.
Comments
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Survivors in general wanted more pure nerfs than killer mains did. Reasonable killer mains understood that Legion needed adjustments to his power so the moonwalking was done away with. It seemed to me that killers were more divided on the issue of Frank's and Study usage. They weren't exploits it just made the power hyper efficient for what it was and at an extreme cost in bp. Was it too strong? Probably. He didn't lose anything to gain efficiency in downing people with deep wound damage.
Legion's is the most disliked killer in the game. Of that I feel very sure of. Regardless of whether people encountered infinite mending or moonwalking the facts are Legion players get treated horribly. So, I think a lot of the gutting of Legion was done just to get people to not instantly walk out on matches involving the killer. Has it helped? Not sure. I actually stopped playing the game after ptb because I wasn't having fun in general.
I do know one thing: Killer mains didn't feel like any of their time and energy on the ptb made a single bit of difference when it came to Legion. Reasonable concerns were raised about the slate of changes and they were just silently brushed aside.
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This. That was exactly how the PTB felt, literally no problems were addressed but we were told "We did fix the issues, we're listening" for the 1000th time.
I'm not bashing the team on how they listen to complaints via the forums and or reddit. I'm bashing that they did literally nothing to address the major issues Legion had since day 1 of his release. His concept was cool, I thought it was a nice spin for a new killer how was it addressed though? Very poorly and the community lashed out because of it.
I don't notice DCing much anymore (I rarely got it Pre-Patch surprisingly) but I do know that the hate for Legion still exists, and people who DO DC because of him will do it regardless of if hes been gutted or not. That's how much people hated Legion, they hated him so much they would in a literal term murder Legion if they could to remove him of the roster.
I feel most of the complaints were also from survivor mains, and as for what Killer mains thought of from your statement they did do what you said on figuring out uses for his Add-ons (at least the respectable Legions did) but we can't ignore the malice some Legions were creating by abusing every trick in the book to beat a team of survivors no matter what.
Also, I agree he was and or still is the most hated killer ever released. But like I stated above i'm not sure if Doctor was also the most hated (At least at the time before Legion) since when they released Legion EVERYONE forgot about Doctor, i'm not joking literally not a soul complained on the forums ever again about Doctor when Legion was around. Its rare to see anyone say anything bad about Doctor now (At least in a post)
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As a killer main I wanted Legion reworked in order to make the matches more fun. Instead the devs nerfed everything to the ground and replaced it with nothing. A M1 killer with special ability "handicap yourself", why would you play this? This must be one of the most mind-bogglingly stupid changes Ive seen in video gaming during the 24 years Ive played them.
I understood the frustration the survivors had, but I also wanted to play Legion because of their looks and cosmetics. I am not going to.
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The thing is, I liked his cosmetics also and what combos I could give him with his various masks.
It's too bad though that such a unique killer was destroyed from the ground up because of the community back-lash. The way they approached him made absolutely no sense, and to be honest I feel they never really cared about the core issues he faced to begin with. The PTB is evidence of that, they addressed literally nothing except one small thing that didn't fix anything tbh. I feel they just did this to get the constant complaints to stop and people would just "forget about it" as a result.
Now what're we left with? a handicapped M1 killer with a borderline useless ability, i'm sure if I dug hard enough I could scrounge something together to make Legion "fun" but he will never be what he used to be, his core idea is now gone.
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I play both sides, I enjoy killer way more tho.
I said It since he came out, he needed 115%ms and not being able to down people with his power and the devs made that happen. The problem is that now that his power is not lethal they decided to nerf it; they gave him slower vaulting speed, slower ms while in FF, you now lose your power if you miss an attack (honestly this is ridiculous), he cant see blood anymore, he cant see ######### when he's stunned (which hurts him a lot in maps like Coldwind or The Game), and his Tr is now bigger...
These changes would've been kind of ok if he could still down people with his power but right now they're completely unnecessary imo.
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I dont feel the aspect that he cant down the Deep Wound timer anymore but he's missing sth. Even if you run 10 secs now, you are slow af, youre vaulting slower and for JUST missing an FF attack or getting stuned in FF you lose _your_whole_power gauge _ ...
Man that's a 20 secs cooldown. Even The Spirit hasnt that much penalty and she moves pretty fast and is invisible.
Wished they would change that but im pretty sure not
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Lets both be honest here, if the name "The Legion" wasn't put on this character I wouldn't recognize this Legion from Pre-Patch Legion... and I still DON'T even when I know that this is how Legion is now lmao.
They did the Killer dirty is all I can say, its just a shame and a baffling display of how they handled this situation... If the killer was going to be this much of an issue to balance why was it released in the first place? They left him in a ruined state with a worthless power, every match with him you basically got to rely on M1 now to actually down survivors which isn't really the issue, the issue is though if you actually face competent teams you'll get destroyed since there is nothing you can do.
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He's Mid-Tier for sure, but that's only because he's a basic M1 killer now. Compare that to most killers that also have the same speed and are M1 WITH their powers, hes is quiet literally the worst killer now in the roster.
I say hes Mid-Tier because any M1 killer is Mid-Tier but it all depends on their power if they stay Mid-Tier or not, Legion literally has no power now I can't call what he has a power its more like a self inflicted handicap.
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Legion can still use their power to get an easier first hit than other M1 killers and can use it to track survivors. The tracking and mobility is still quite usefull. Stronger than Doc's tracking, I would say. Saying that they have no power anymore is an overstatement. It's just really clunky right now.
And it's not a handicap compared to Freddy's power e.g. which can really be a huge handicap in scenarios like when survivors fast heal a downed mate, before you can pick them up etc.
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But at least in Freddy's scenario that's entirely a situational case. For Legion its kind of a overall problem he faces. I guess I was overstated that his powers useless, but I can still say its one of if not the worst powers out of all the killers now, and at the very least just makes me feel like i'm not even playing Legion at all.
Which sucks cause I actually enjoyed the direction he was going in (Ignoring his OP and abuse-able bugs) I enjoyed the concept of what they were going for, a rag tag gang of 4 teens rushing down survivors in a murderous frenzy, and as a result was captured decently/pretty well for what they came up with.
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Actually, if I start to compare killers with legion ... legion would be very below others. Before starting, for me, a killer is good when his POWER gives him resources to catch the survivor, while a killer is only M1 is quite useless in the game.
- Legion: M1 Killer [M2 (useless)] ... Well, you get free hits and then ... M1 chase). Another thing, Legion can not catch the survivors with his M2 because he receives a stun BASE of 4 seconds, which, the survivor will have defenses to defend himself, like a pallet nearby or a window.
- The PIG: Another killer with Freedy and Legion who are ... passing a bit by the garbage truck, basically "garbage". Why? Pig is another killer of M1, because his M2 is quite useless, very RNG and does not help the killer to reach the survivors or even ... slow down the game? Their RNG factors are too high and this penalizes the killer much to the point of being useless in some games. The luck must be with this killer.
- Freeddy: Another killer garbage next to ... legion, I'm sorry but it's reality.
Let's compare with the other killers that really seem correct to use M1 & M2, and thanks to the two uses of M1 and M2 helps the killer to catch the survivors more easily:
- Wraith: M1 and M2 Killer, Great map control and positioning to bring down the survivors. I consider it much better than LEGION
- Myers: M1 and M2 Killer. Early Game weak, but once you get level 2 and 3, it's where you get great power. It does not have a great mechanic of pressing M2 to stalk and get easy casualties, but its mechanics are not very special but even so, it is a killer M1 and M2. Since a good player manages his level 3 to make big plays and this makes a player of Myers is really good and that is M2 and is quite useful.
- Billy: I have nothing to say .. well, great control of Map and also M1 and mostly M2 killer. Its power is based on M2, not M1.
- Nurse: Like Billy, it is a killer that needs its power to reach a hit, therefore, I consider it in M2 killer.
- Plague: Quite different from the others with a very interesting mechanics. M1 and M2 killer clearly, it looks like the current legion, but legion is far behind plague, plague is an M2 killer, mostly uses its M2 to be able to shoot down the survivors. Once you get a free hit (get the survivor to enter the disease state) you will use M1. And to say that his power "increased" makes it M2 to provide even more power to catch more quickly the survivors. Of course plague is 1000 times above that legion.
- Clown: Although I do not play it much, but it is a killer of M1 and enough use of M2 to be able to catch the survivors. Clearly if you want to catch a survivor faster you should use his M2 power to catch him faster than using M1 ....
- The Hag: Honestly I would not like to put this killer to compare it with legion, because ... it is a killer that must use its power to catch a survivor, as if it does not use its M2, this killer would be very hard to get a death. This killer is based on tricking the map. A very annoying killer, because if he tricks loops it is difficult to escape from it, which makes it a killer danger. Its worst counterplay are the flashlights, that makes it lose power.
I would like to count the comparisons with the other killers, I have put some comparisons and I hope they are clear ... but it is clear that in this game, a killer where in his power does not get any benefit to help him in pursuits or help to catch the Survivor ... is considered "bad killer" or low tier or trash, as you want to call it.
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I already stated above that through some discussions I came to the conclusion that his power is borderline worthless now.
So I agree with this 100%, he is now possible the worst killer in DBD jUsT aS eVERyOnE wAnTEd RiGhT?
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This. All of this. But guys!!!! YoU hAvE tO gIvE nEw LeGiOn A cHaNcE it's Better tHeY aRe StRoNgEr.... seriously tho I hate this bland ass m1 rework.
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Its not really even a rework, its kinda like an identity theft except its in reverse and Legion didn't want this new play style lmao.
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I really love new legion, in fact I laugh when survivors try to vault a pallet after me and I have the iridescent button add-on. :D
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I guess someone can enjoy Post-Patch Legion.
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I honestly can't see a reason to play Legion anymore, I mean, they literally have nothing special. Sure, sometimes you can get a "free hit", but after that? You are just playing with a trapless Trapper, Wraith without the wailing bell, Billy without his chainsaw etc.
Legion needs a rework, a real one that is not just a bunch of nerfs, get rid of Deep Wound, give them a new ability, because right now they have half a power.
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I tried to give him a go, but he's just so incredibly underwhelming. He has so many downsides that it just hurts.
EVERYTHING YOU DO seems to leave you with 0 power bar, even running faster recharge it felt like I was waiting for tremendous amount of time just to be able to use a really mediocre buff.
He has 0 power in a chase now, and while a lot of killers are 115%, killers like Pig and Wraith who have similar ambushes can at least ATTEMPT to use them within a chase to get the second hit. Legion is forced to chase at 115 without touching their power or they CANNOT down the survivor. If they do they can get close and then stun themselves only to leave a 4 second gap between themselves and the survivor anyway, it's completely useless.
Not only that, the only "benefit" their power is meant to have is being able to chain between survivors, but they still move pretty slowly between them. Survivors are revealed huge distances away and nothing is to stop them running the opposite direction to extend that gap and waste your power. Sitting under a pallet also means the Legion either stares at you until their power bar drains, or tank the stun (MAYBE getting a hit) which drains their power, meaning they cannot chain anyway. It was the biggest frustration of playing them that just sitting near a pallet was a foolproof way to counter their power 100%. You don't need to drop it until they try to hit you, and if they don't they revert to an M1 killer anyway.
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He has what he used to which is to chain stab multiple survivors, but as stated above I used Thanatophobia to maximize this part of his ability, and they nerfed that for WHATEVER reason, so now to even use him I depend on ruin to help me in most cases, Thanato still works its just worse than it already was before.
And it was bad in the first place.
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Yeah, he can stab multiple survivors, the issue is Deep Wound no longer presents any real threat, and most of the time to mend is completely negated by the amount of time it takes to get to the next survivor who still has just as much ability to sit under a pallet and negate their whole chaining ability anyway. His chases are also longer than most killers, except maybe Trapper or Freddy, because he literally has no other play to down someone besides just chasing and looping. Nearly every other killer has SOMETHING that can aid them even a little mid chase, some are hard to use like Pig and Wraith, but they aren't incapable of downing with those hits.
He just has next to nothing going for him over being an M1 killer without a power for a large portion of the game.
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Pre-Patch Legion didn't have this issue because most places he couldn't be looped and pallets could be mind-gamed for them to be dropped early, especially during the long route in the loop you could pop FF and hit them and move on to chain stab others to prov thanato and slow the game down even more.
This helped me to do this and I never used ruin on Legion in serious matches. Literally only time I used ruin on Legion was to get a feel for him in the PTB and a few days out of the PTB, after that I never used ruin on Legion again because you didn't need it.
A lot of Legions didn't know how to use Legion properly either, and that resulted in a lot of Ls being passed around.
Now as for Post-Patch Legion hes just a shell of his former self and the only thing he has going for him is that hes just a M1 killer with a handicapped power. Nerfing something into the ground to please popular demand isn't always the way to go with certain characters in multiplayer games, and this was one of those situations where they nerfed him way too much to get people off their back.
Its sad how it had to come to that really. its also disappointing really.
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I personally think Legion works best (for me) when using him for tracking, first hits, and stalling overall. I've legitimately had survivors not realize I can see them after I hit their teammate, so I try to abuse that.
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Legion to me, is right down in the meh territory. Not good, but not bad either. The power is just a maybe when it comes to helping out in the chase, thanta, sloppy, m/a just works so well on legion.
Post patch legion however, to me just seems to have no incentive to spread that damage not when i can just tunnel someone and just slug them and hide nearby to use them as bait. The dw mechanics now give me no incentive to spread the damage unlike before, and just seem to promote tunneling iunstead doubly so when i have a mori.
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When I was cleaning out his Streamers and Puddings since he's no longer the best farmer anymore I realized people still hide despite there being knowledge that he can see people in FF.
Also I said I cleaned out his inventory mainly because there was some unique things about Legion that made him stand out above the rest, one of those things was something I called "Force Farming" where Legion was able to farm a team even if they didn't want to farm and wanted to just play a match.
The killer himself was a massive BP machine and i'm unaware if BHVR knew that or not. If they did that could explain some reason behind a few of the unorthodox changes that focused on this trait he had. (That and the killer was just broken in the right hands overall, but that being said he could be built around being fair if the devs put enough thought into it. Instead were left with...This...)
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Anyone can agree he's Mid-Tier now just because of the fact hes a M1 killer now. Any M1 killer is Mid-Tier but like I said above, their powers dictate if they stay Mid-Tier or not, and since his power is borderline worthless in most scenarios he could be as I said the WORST killer in DBD.
(Yes even worse than Freddy, at least Freddy has Add-ons that help with his situation. BHVR butchered all of Legions including the ones that didn't need to be changed.)
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Also, it depends how you look at it but for me I dislike the changes he's gone under.
Hopefully they think of something better to redeem my boy Legion.
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