Stealth. Viability in the current Meta
Now, I am a rank 10 survivor so there may be some things I say that don't effect rank 1s, but i felt this was worth putting together anyways. [Also real quick, High agro builds are builds focused on outrunning the killer, instead of stealthing away]
Currently there are 16 Perks which I would classify as Stealth perks (perks that have little to no use in classic high agro builds) and there are 17 perks which I would classify as High Agro Perks (Perks with little to no use in stealth builds)
This means that of the 53 Perks available, 20 weren't able to be classified, perks like botany knowledge as its flexible.
This is a lot closer than I thought and then I decided to look at the Killers, the reason why I started looking into this. Currently the confirmed top Meta killers are The Nurse and The Hill-billy. The Nurse is Directly countered by stealth, as losing her before she regains from her fatigue is of most importance, but the Billy is a bit Different. He generally does well against both High Agro Builds and Stealth Builds, but that said, its completely possible, to do better against a Billy with a Stealth Build then a High Agro due to his instant downing.
Still, I think that Stealth does need a bit of a buff for one simple reason, the Prevalence of BBQ and chili and Whispers to a lesser extent. Killers with these perks pretty much directly counter Stealth builds, leaving only high agro builds. Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealth, but I believe buffing perks like resilience, or premonition will give back the incentive to be a bit more stealthy, giving survivors a cool risk/reward mechanic with builds, they could focus on getting gens done quicker, but leave their team more open if they get found.
And while yes, I know that No mither kind of does this already, the extent that it does it and the need to focus an entire build around it makes it a bit unwieldy, I would also buff no mither to give an iron will status effect (no pain noises from injuries). Ultimately I like the idea of going into a game as a killer and not to expect to see scratch marks all around the map because survivors couldn't care less about being found.
Comments
-
I stealth all the time, frequently walk away with gold Evader. The trick?
SPINE CHILL
This perk is absolutely necessary if you want to play stealthy because it let's you know when you are being watched. On a gen and suddenly it lights up? Killer is coming to that gen. Going for an unhook but see it lights up as you approach and doesn't go off? Killer is waiting by that hook. Trying to open a gate without being seen because NOED and Spine Chill lights up? Killer is coming to that gate. Any time you are doing something and Spine Chill procs and stays proc'd, the killer is coming to your position. If you react within the first second of it triggering you can easily just walk away from whatever and hide. It also let's you know when the killer loses you in a chase. When you are being chased it will always be lit. If it's not lit then technically the killer doesn't see you so you can just walk or crouch away. I've baited so many killers to think I'm going to run a loop, only to just simply WALK away, completely away, by keeping my eyes on Spine Chill to know I can't be seen.
It is entirely doable and I constantly stealth killers all game. It's not easy, on Game it's honestly impossible, but you can do it.
9 -
Stealth has always and will always be viable. It should be the only way to play, IMO.
7 -
BHVR: Let's make aura reading WAY more powerful! Bitter Murmur and Dark Sense, straight to the top!
4 -
Personally I run Empathy because you will always see where the killer is at if he's in a chase, and it's also useful outside of that for it's designed purpose. Basically the only time you don't know exactly where the killer is, is right after he hooks someone, at which point they probably have BBQ so you just want to hide anyways.
You can also tell when a killer breaks off or loses a chase by how the wounded survivor reacts (self caring for example)Technically there's the situation where the killer hooked someone and then failed to find someone else at which point you don't get any benefit from Empathy, but there has to be some part that's not OP against the killers.
The reason that a lot of people don't run stealth builds is it's just too powerful to loop killers into infinity and gen rush at the same time. There's no point to stealth builds if you can just do that. Killer coming to you doing a gen? You don't need spine chill, just sprint burst away.
0 -
@Darckshado9 said:
Now, I am a rank 10 survivor so there may be some things I say that don't effect rank 1s, but i felt this was worth putting together anyways. [Also real quick, High agro builds are builds focused on outrunning the killer, instead of stealthing away]
Currently there are 16 Perks which I would classify as Stealth perks (perks that have little to no use in classic high agro builds) and there are 17 perks which I would classify as High Agro Perks (Perks with little to no use in stealth builds)
This means that of the 53 Perks available, 20 weren't able to be classified, perks like botany knowledge as its flexible.
This is a lot closer than I thought and then I decided to look at the Killers, the reason why I started looking into this. Currently the confirmed top Meta killers are The Nurse and The Hill-billy. The Nurse is Directly countered by stealth, as losing her before she regains from her fatigue is of most importance, but the Billy is a bit Different. He generally does well against both High Agro Builds and Stealth Builds, but that said, its completely possible, to do better against a Billy with a Stealth Build then a High Agro due to his instant downing.
Still, I think that Stealth does need a bit of a buff for one simple reason, the Prevalence of BBQ and chili and Whispers to a lesser extent. Killers with these perks pretty much directly counter Stealth builds, leaving only high agro builds. Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealth, but I believe buffing perks like resilience, or premonition will give back the incentive to be a bit more stealthy, giving survivors a cool risk/reward mechanic with builds, they could focus on getting gens done quicker, but leave their team more open if they get found.And while yes, I know that No mither kind of does this already, the extent that it does it and the need to focus an entire build around it makes it a bit unwieldy, I would also buff no mither to give an iron will status effect (no pain noises from injuries). Ultimately I like the idea of going into a game as a killer and not to expect to see scratch marks all around the map because survivors couldn't care less about being found.
Maybe stealth needs a slight buff (only very slight in my opinion), but actually its all the meta perks that require a hard nerf.
And yeah, even in the current situation stealth is very possible. The only exception might be doc with the illusion addon, very hard to be stealthy against that, but lets face it..... how often do we verse a doc with that specific build
0 -
I’m way with you. These perks may (or may not) end up being devastating pretty soon. I really like the idea of these perks being useful through the game, but they seem like they would be just way too powerful with the proposed changes.Visionmaker said:BHVR: Let's make aura reading WAY more powerful! Bitter Murmur and Dark Sense, straight to the top!
0 -
@cTrix said:
Personally I run Empathy because you will always see where the killer is at if he's in a chase, and it's also useful outside of that for it's designed purpose. Basically the only time you don't know exactly where the killer is, is right after he hooks someone, at which point they probably have BBQ so you just want to hide anyways.
You can also tell when a killer breaks off or loses a chase by how the wounded survivor reacts (self caring for example)Technically there's the situation where the killer hooked someone and then failed to find someone else at which point you don't get any benefit from Empathy, but there has to be some part that's not OP against the killers.
The reason that a lot of people don't run stealth builds is it's just too powerful to loop killers into infinity and gen rush at the same time. There's no point to stealth builds if you can just do that. Killer coming to you doing a gen? You don't need spine chill, just sprint burst away.
to be fair looping and chases are encouraged by the emblem system. The longer a chase the better. But you are right spine chill and empathy are underrated.
1 -
Went against a doc last night with + 175% extended terror range and he got everyone pretty quickly, even camped and did nothing but run across 1/4 of map hitting ppl till they got to tier 3. He got 4 sacs and didn't even try hard really. you can't stealth against that and you can't play against it no matter what you do, it's that op.
0 -
-Barbecue and Chili
-Bitter Murmur
-Nurse’s Calling
-All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
-Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
-Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
-Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
-The Doctor’s existence
-The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
-Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears“Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main
10 -
Been buying up dark sense left and right with my survivors. Will be a must bring0
-
@Orion said:
Stealth has always and will always be viable. It should be the only way to play, IMO.Not entirely....
And that's someone who knows how to lose a killer, but it's mainly due to mindgames and resorting to stealth afterwards.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
-Barbecue and Chili
-Bitter Murmur
-Nurse’s Calling
-All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
-Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
-Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
-Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
-The Doctor’s existence
-The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
-Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears“Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main
This made me laugh considering it's really true and so ironic to say.
Also, you forgot about Freddy
4 -
@Darckshado9 said:
Also worrying is the presence of the Doctor, This means that Stealth will never be the best build in the game, because The Doctor stops any attempts at stealthSorry but as a stealthy survivor I get triggered when I read such things. Stealthing is "impossible" against him only before you get to madness 1 (still false because lockers exist), so you just need to play smart and reach it while the killer is chasing someone else.
Besides, killers' tracking perks are not comparable in strenght to survivors' stealth perks, since most of the formers have easy counters (being a strategy or a survivor perk), while the latters most of the times rely only on the survivor's ability to use them, but can't be actively countered by the killer.
Just an example:
BBQ can be countered by being <40 meters from the hook, walking one direction and then the opposite one after 4 s or hiding one's aura between that of a generator (that got changed to make this easier, too).
Premonition gives you the killer's position every 30s. The only counter is Myers in EW1.1 -
@Brady said:
@Orion said:
Stealth has always and will always be viable. It should be the only way to play, IMO.Not entirely....
And that's someone who knows how to lose a killer, but it's mainly due to mindgames and resorting to stealth afterwards.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
-Barbecue and Chili
-Bitter Murmur
-Nurse’s Calling
-All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
-Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
-Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
-Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
-The Doctor’s existence
-The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
-Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears“Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main
This made me laugh considering it's really true and so ironic to say.
Also, you forgot about Freddy
I was gonna say Freddy but since no one ever plays him it’s kinda a moot point.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
-Barbecue and Chili
-Bitter Murmur
-Nurse’s Calling
-All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
-Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
-Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
-Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
-The Doctor’s existence
-The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
-Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears“Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main
Stealth is absolutely viable against almost all of these. Doc and Bloodhound are really the only ones you can't stealth. Though for BH you could argue that since you need to be injured you can stealth it (which you totally can) but once injured it's fairly impossible to escape from the killer. You are just stuck being chase for X amount of time however long you can run for.
For each of the aura perks you can avoid them as long as you know they have them. BBQ, either be inside the terror radius, behind a gen, or just don't be where the killer just saw you. Walk away in a different direction. I'm to a point now I just assume every killer has BBQ until I know otherwise and I play around it. In fact just yesterday I had a game against Clown on a farm map (forget which, Rotten Fields maybe?), and it was down to me and my friend. He hooked my friend across the map and, knowing I was going to be spotted on BBQ, I did a dull totem in the very middle of a cornfield. I started it before he hooked and did it for 4 seconds, then walked away far to the left and circled around to make the save. Killer 100% took the bait and came RIGHT to that totem, searched all the corn and probably the pig tree (which was close by). Nope, I was 2/3 across the map at that point to make the save (which I got safely BTW).
Nurse's Calling is easy to dodge too just don't heal if you hear a heartbeat. Spine Chill is also a life saver here, because you tan easily tell if the killer has NC because you will be healing behind a wall and then it lights and stays lit. Killer can obviously see you and is probably coming to you. In those cases I just get as far away, into the deepest corner of the map I can to heal. You can even bait killers with this too. On Crotus Penn (long time ago forget the killer) I help another survivor by baiting a killer with NC to chase me upstairs in the main building. I healed myself to about 90%, then went upstairs to tap it so they came up looking for me. Then I go downstairs and tap it. By the time they found me I just finished the heal, made them waste a good 60 seconds trying to get me because of my aura. It was a very risky thing but IIRC this wasn't a very good killer. Point is you can stealth this.
I'm starting to really hate Doc just for the fact that you can't vault something when he shocks you. I am constantly making it through windows only to teleport back to the other side, it's infuriating. That really shouldn't be a thing. Knocking you off stuff, or keeping you from doing most actions is fine, but vaulting shouldn't be affected simply because it's too connection based. I also think you should be able to 'snap out of it' for madness 2. With some add-ons, madness 2 is so powerful and the fact you can't get out of it is kinda dumb. I also have a problem with Docs that run 3 gen strat but then over-commit to it to the point they are just wasting everyone's time. Too many games where the Doc refuses to commit to a chase on someone in madness 3 and injured because they will go away from the 3 gens that have 0 progress. It's really annoying to deal with, if they would just commit once in a while and kill people I'd be fine with it, but I've only met like 2 Docs playing 3 gen that ever did that.
But I think the problem people like OP have with stealth in the game is that it's impossible to stealth a good killer ONCE THEY FIND YOU. Any killer worth their salt in survivor tears will be able to follow you and eventually catch you. True Talent almost never loses someone in a chase. If they get away it's mostly because he let them go because he knew it would be a waste, or he found another surv, or he had to protect a totem/gen/hook. You don't get away from a killer like him, you just run, for as long as you can, until he catches you or gives up. That's where people say stealth isn't viable, and it's not in those cases (unless you have IW&UE). But stealth is totally viable when the killer has no idea where you are. I've straight up walked right behind killers knowing they won't think to turn around or sat motionless in a patch of cat tails for the killer to walk right past me, SOMETIMES EVEN BUMP INTO ME, and not see me. If you understand line of sight and know how to move around without drawing attention to yourself you can stealth killers all game. But once you get found stealth isn't an option anymore.
1 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
I was gonna say Freddy but since no one ever plays him it’s kinda a moot point.MFW I'm a nobody.
1 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
-Barbecue and Chili
-Bitter Murmur
-Nurse’s Calling
-All other Aura-reading Perks/abilities
-Bloodhound+Sloppy butcher combo
-Survivors being obnoxiously loud while injured
-Visual and audio cues for pretty much everything that isn’t walking
-The Doctor’s existence
-The surpsingly high gamma of many maps
-Loud AF music only the Surv can hear while the Killer is close which can cause a lack of judgement in what the Killer hears“Stealth is viable.” -Every Nurse main
Stealth is absolutely viable against almost all of these. Doc and Bloodhound are really the only ones you can't stealth. Though for BH you could argue that since you need to be injured you can stealth it (which you totally can) but once injured it's fairly impossible to escape from the killer. You are just stuck being chase for X amount of time however long you can run for.
For each of the aura perks you can avoid them as long as you know they have them. BBQ, either be inside the terror radius, behind a gen, or just don't be where the killer just saw you. Walk away in a different direction. I'm to a point now I just assume every killer has BBQ until I know otherwise and I play around it. In fact just yesterday I had a game against Clown on a farm map (forget which, Rotten Fields maybe?), and it was down to me and my friend. He hooked my friend across the map and, knowing I was going to be spotted on BBQ, I did a dull totem in the very middle of a cornfield. I started it before he hooked and did it for 4 seconds, then walked away far to the left and circled around to make the save. Killer 100% took the bait and came RIGHT to that totem, searched all the corn and probably the pig tree (which was close by). Nope, I was 2/3 across the map at that point to make the save (which I got safely BTW).
Nurse's Calling is easy to dodge too just don't heal if you hear a heartbeat. Spine Chill is also a life saver here, because you tan easily tell if the killer has NC because you will be healing behind a wall and then it lights and stays lit. Killer can obviously see you and is probably coming to you. In those cases I just get as far away, into the deepest corner of the map I can to heal. You can even bait killers with this too. On Crotus Penn (long time ago forget the killer) I help another survivor by baiting a killer with NC to chase me upstairs in the main building. I healed myself to about 90%, then went upstairs to tap it so they came up looking for me. Then I go downstairs and tap it. By the time they found me I just finished the heal, made them waste a good 60 seconds trying to get me because of my aura. It was a very risky thing but IIRC this wasn't a very good killer. Point is you can stealth this.
I'm starting to really hate Doc just for the fact that you can't vault something when he shocks you. I am constantly making it through windows only to teleport back to the other side, it's infuriating. That really shouldn't be a thing. Knocking you off stuff, or keeping you from doing most actions is fine, but vaulting shouldn't be affected simply because it's too connection based. I also think you should be able to 'snap out of it' for madness 2. With some add-ons, madness 2 is so powerful and the fact you can't get out of it is kinda dumb. I also have a problem with Docs that run 3 gen strat but then over-commit to it to the point they are just wasting everyone's time. Too many games where the Doc refuses to commit to a chase on someone in madness 3 and injured because they will go away from the 3 gens that have 0 progress. It's really annoying to deal with, if they would just commit once in a while and kill people I'd be fine with it, but I've only met like 2 Docs playing 3 gen that ever did that.
But I think the problem people like OP have with stealth in the game is that it's impossible to stealth a good killer ONCE THEY FIND YOU. Any killer worth their salt in survivor tears will be able to follow you and eventually catch you. True Talent almost never loses someone in a chase. If they get away it's mostly because he let them go because he knew it would be a waste, or he found another surv, or he had to protect a totem/gen/hook. You don't get away from a killer like him, you just run, for as long as you can, until he catches you or gives up. That's where people say stealth isn't viable, and it's not in those cases (unless you have IW&UE). But stealth is totally viable when the killer has no idea where you are. I've straight up walked right behind killers knowing they won't think to turn around or sat motionless in a patch of cat tails for the killer to walk right past me, SOMETIMES EVEN BUMP INTO ME, and not see me. If you understand line of sight and know how to move around without drawing attention to yourself you can stealth killers all game. But once you get found stealth isn't an option anymore.
TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.
Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.
1 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.
Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.
Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.
As far as the True comment, yea again read what I write and don't just pick out words to attack. I'm just using him as an example of a good killer that doesn't lose people. When the killer actually finds you and is chasing you, stealth isn't really an option and it's not supposed to be either. Stealth only works up to the point you are found, but it works INSANELY well if you do it right.
1 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.
Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.
Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.
The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:
Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.
BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.
Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.
Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.
3 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:
Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.
BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.
**> Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.
**
Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.The bolded point pretty much sums it up, since had a doctor on Mcmillans with 175% increased terror range and he popped everyone within seconds of game starting into madness 1. He got 3 people into 2 within another 15 seconds and all 3 were in phase 3 in less than a minute. you can't stealth against that no matter how hard you try and on Gideon's/Lery's you're toast. Same for Haddonfield/Springfield.
As a killer with BBQ if I don't see auras I know they're either really close or behind a gen, and moving one way works at low ranks but high ranks killers know this. Wide open maps well you can only go so far. Against a Nurse, Doctor, or Billy yeah good luck with that.
High rank nurses with 4 blinks and super low fatigue, Doctors with that super long terror radius, Billy's with rededuced cd etc. I've been running up against rank 3 killers as a rank 7 survivor a lot lately and they just laugh on any map at stealthy play style.
Lastly once in tier 3 you're screwed since unlike Freddy hooking you you don't get knocked out of madness tier. The Doctor running the tier II/III tracking item, yeah go ahead and unhook i'll know where you're at forever and get the other person as well.
0 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
TL;DR: These things can only be avoided in really niche ways.Sorry, but I don’t suck TrueTalent’s dong. I suck Bricky’s instead.
Maybe you should read it, considering I point out how all these anti-stealth things here can easily be countered. Nothing about beating them is "niche" you just need to know what perks the killer is using and what they do. BBQ doesn't even phase me now, there are so many ways to hide from it.
Like really if you want to make an argument about how hard it is to be stealthy but then completely ignore advice on how to be easily be stealthy I can't help you.
The ideas you described are faulty at best. Here's why:
Nurse's Calling: Monitor and Abuse. Plain and simple.
BBQ: If the Kiler can't see you, that means you're near. If anything, NOT being seen by the Killer is a bigger giveaway than being seen by him.
Doctor: Take a good long look at how fast you go from Madness 0 to Madness 1. You will scream pretty much the second you enter his Terror Radius in Treatment Mode. Combined with Distressing and Order, it goes up even more, even faster, and even farther away.
Plus everything else you didn't give a rebuttal for.
LOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Doc is a problem for me not because of the screaming but because he can stop you from vaulting (which is buggy AF, you can hop through a window and be clear away only to teleport back), and because you can't get out of tier 2, and with add-ons tier 2 is crazy strong. IMO when you 'snap out of it' you should revert to tier 1 because it's just ridiculous.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
@powerbats said:
As a killer with BBQ if I don't see auras I know they're either really close or behind a gen, and moving one way works at low ranks but high ranks killers know this. Wide open maps well you can only go so far. Against a Nurse, Doctor, or Billy yeah good luck with that.If you want to avoid BBQ against Nurse/Billy then either get inside BBQ's range then leave, or be as far from the hook as possible so you can fake them out moving one way while you are actually going another way.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
0 -
@Master said:
And yeah, even in the current situation stealth is very possible. The only exception might be doc with the illusion addon, very hard to be stealthy against that, but lets face it..... how often do we verse a doc with that specific buildWhen you see a doc illusion, just walk through it. That makes it disappear.
0 -
LOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
2 -
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
If he can do it, that proves it can be done. This isn't a generalization of a group of people based on one's own interactions with them. This is a feat, and if one person can perform a feat, then it proves more people can do it. Either that, or you're saying he's the greatest stealth Survivor in the world, past, present, and future, and thus only he can do it.
0 -
@Orion said:
If he can do it, that proves it can be done. This isn't a generalization of a group of people based on one's own interactions with them. This is a feat, and if one person can perform a feat, then it proves more people can do it. Either that, or you're saying he's the greatest stealth Survivor in the world, past, present, and future, and thus only he can do it.
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.
I've been able to stealth good quite often and then get screwed by someone either intentionally or unintentionally running close enough for an extended terror radius doc to nail me. Billy's laugh at you when they can run across maps in 2 ses or so and do a charge within 2 secs of stopping.
3 or even 4 blink nurses laugh at stealth, with 1-2 sec fatigue timers just blink everywhere and whammo you find someone.
To top it all off you've got all the hackers out there using aura hacks because they're annoyed with the stealthers. Yes it can be done but not by everyone and realistically unless you're ina full 4 man or the killers an idiot it's super difficult to do.
0 -
Y'all are getting to tense over extremes.
The game's design is this : Hide for as long as you can while completing objectives, and when you get found, run to lose time if you're good at it, or Juke the killer if you're a pro.
The killer is meant to have arsenals strong enough to be able to find you. stealthing all game is near impossible because of this. The system acknowledges this with chase point. at some point, you will get into a chase, and the skill factor comes in.
to clarify. stealth builds allow you to be the least targeted. that means you're the least at risk. and the killer will go around killing others while you live. Y'all forgot there are three more survivors and every second in a chase is a second done on 3 diffrent generators.0 -
Honeslty, all aura perks on a timer should have a solid second taken out. Would go a long way
0 -
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.1 -
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
0 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.1 -
I find that a lot of the time you can use so-called 'high aggro' perks as stealth perks too. For example, using balanced landing in the factory building thing in macmillan estate (or on a hill near the killer shack, etc.) can let you run outside after falling and hide within the junk lying around. Actually lead a doctor on a wild goose chase after doing that, even with the screaming (i had ue of course too
0 -
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.I agree both are problems, but as such, saying something else is wrong to rebut a problem I have is a fallacy
0 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.I agree both are problems, but as such, saying something else is wrong to rebut a problem I have is a fallacy
Except when the size of the issue is very... Well let's say, different.
0 -
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.I agree both are problems, but as such, saying something else is wrong to rebut a problem I have is a fallacy
Except when the size of the issue is very comparable tho.
That’s stupid. Both are issues, so both need fixes, not “well seeing how I said my issue to rebut yours, I win”
0 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
Stealth is 33% of the game.
The other 33% being juking and strategy.If you rely solely on stealth, you'll die.
If you rely solely on juking, you'll die (unless the killer is terrible).Stealth is a decent time waster, and nearly requires Ironwill to be played.
Quick & Quiet is actually a great perk in that regard but tricky to use.Shouldn’t require a perk at all. Should only be somewhat easy to hear breathing with strider
Well, killer shouldn't require Ruin to play more than 5mins at high ranks.
Also, they actually recently "fixed" the sound so you can actually hear them, after 1 year of buggy sounds. Doubt they're stepping back now, especially since the result is way better now.I agree both are problems, but as such, saying something else is wrong to rebut a problem I have is a fallacy
Except when the size of the issue is very comparable tho.
That’s stupid. Both are issues, so both need fixes, not “well seeing how I said my issue to rebut yours, I win”
Very debatable once again.
Especially since the stealth issue is very debatable, while the 5mins round isn't.
But whatever, said everything I had to say anyway0 -
@powerbats said:
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.I have about 400 hours on Xbox, mostly as survivor. I have almost every survivor perk on my Jake, but often just run Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care, and then whatever else I feel like. I usually bring a toolbox if I bring an item, and it would be either a yellow or green with speed and charge add-ons. Currently (and several times previously) rank 1, and I have been in PLENTY of games with full rank 1/2 players including killer. I have juked every killer in the game on almost every map. I often pip with at least a silver in Evader, Iridescent if it's a long game or I get found and chased at least twice. Also unless other survivors are giving away your position, them being stupid shouldn't stop you from being stealthy.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
You are assuming jack, because you just dismiss everything I said. I explain to you, very clearly, how to stealth against these tactics. I do it all the time, against rank 1 killers. Once you get found though stealth isn't an option, you just run. Run until you are caught, the killer gives up, or (in many cases for myself) you actually mindgame the killer and get away legit.
Spine Chill tells you killer is looking in your direction. Nurse's has a 28m range, SC has 32m range. That means that you can tell the kill is looking at you before NC actually procs, and if you stop healing when SC procs then killer may only see you healing for a second at most. They are still 28m away which with anyone but Billy/Nurse means you have just over 6 seconds to move. Again, I do it all the time you just have to understand how SC works and react appropriately.
You obviously don't play killer if you think a circle with a RADIUS of 40m is small. Doing some math, that's over 5000 square meters. That's like trying to find someone inside the entirety of Crotus Penn Asylum's main building. If you seriously can't hide from the killer inside that range than I don't know how else to help you.
Anecdotal evidence is only a thing when you are talking very specific situations. But I do it all the time in every situation. Other people have come in here saying they can do it, how is that anecdotal? Stealth is 100% completely viable in this game. You don't even need perks, just a basic understanding of how the killer sees the world. I will flat out just walk around a rock or tree right next to the killer and they won't see me because the object is breaking line of sight. And I'm not running or injured, so the killer has no idea that I'm there.
Go play killer, learn what they can see and what they can't, and you will be able to stealth just fine. If you want to live in denial you won't ever get better at the game.
1 -
Thanks for clarifying, and since posting that I've had yet more lvl 2-5's in my games that have played like idiots, rna killer to you mostly on purpose. Those that keep going for obvious baits and or try and grief you by body blocking you. I've gotten flamed for being super stealthy on maps where it's taken me forever to find hatch because I shockingly refused to give myself up to killer.
0 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@powerbats said:
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.I have about 400 hours on Xbox, mostly as survivor. I have almost every survivor perk on my Jake, but often just run Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care, and then whatever else I feel like. I usually bring a toolbox if I bring an item, and it would be either a yellow or green with speed and charge add-ons. Currently (and several times previously) rank 1, and I have been in PLENTY of games with full rank 1/2 players including killer. I have juked every killer in the game on almost every map. I often pip with at least a silver in Evader, Iridescent if it's a long game or I get found and chased at least twice. Also unless other survivors are giving away your position, them being stupid shouldn't stop you from being stealthy.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
You are assuming jack, because you just dismiss everything I said. I explain to you, very clearly, how to stealth against these tactics. I do it all the time, against rank 1 killers. Once you get found though stealth isn't an option, you just run. Run until you are caught, the killer gives up, or (in many cases for myself) you actually mindgame the killer and get away legit.
Spine Chill tells you killer is looking in your direction. Nurse's has a 28m range, SC has 32m range. That means that you can tell the kill is looking at you before NC actually procs, and if you stop healing when SC procs then killer may only see you healing for a second at most. They are still 28m away which with anyone but Billy/Nurse means you have just over 6 seconds to move. Again, I do it all the time you just have to understand how SC works and react appropriately.
You obviously don't play killer if you think a circle with a RADIUS of 40m is small. Doing some math, that's over 5000 square meters. That's like trying to find someone inside the entirety of Crotus Penn Asylum's main building. If you seriously can't hide from the killer inside that range than I don't know how else to help you.
Anecdotal evidence is only a thing when you are talking very specific situations. But I do it all the time in every situation. Other people have come in here saying they can do it, how is that anecdotal? Stealth is 100% completely viable in this game. You don't even need perks, just a basic understanding of how the killer sees the world. I will flat out just walk around a rock or tree right next to the killer and they won't see me because the object is breaking line of sight. And I'm not running or injured, so the killer has no idea that I'm there.
Go play killer, learn what they can see and what they can't, and you will be able to stealth just fine. If you want to live in denial you won't ever get better at the game.
I’m rank 1 wraith, don’t give me “you don’t play killer” #########, it’s stupid, and promotes splitting the player baseyou ass. Not mentioning the simple fact you’re wrong with that assumption to begin with.
1 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@powerbats said:
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.I have about 400 hours on Xbox, mostly as survivor. I have almost every survivor perk on my Jake, but often just run Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care, and then whatever else I feel like. I usually bring a toolbox if I bring an item, and it would be either a yellow or green with speed and charge add-ons. Currently (and several times previously) rank 1, and I have been in PLENTY of games with full rank 1/2 players including killer. I have juked every killer in the game on almost every map. I often pip with at least a silver in Evader, Iridescent if it's a long game or I get found and chased at least twice. Also unless other survivors are giving away your position, them being stupid shouldn't stop you from being stealthy.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
You are assuming jack, because you just dismiss everything I said. I explain to you, very clearly, how to stealth against these tactics. I do it all the time, against rank 1 killers. Once you get found though stealth isn't an option, you just run. Run until you are caught, the killer gives up, or (in many cases for myself) you actually mindgame the killer and get away legit.
Spine Chill tells you killer is looking in your direction. Nurse's has a 28m range, SC has 32m range. That means that you can tell the kill is looking at you before NC actually procs, and if you stop healing when SC procs then killer may only see you healing for a second at most. They are still 28m away which with anyone but Billy/Nurse means you have just over 6 seconds to move. Again, I do it all the time you just have to understand how SC works and react appropriately.
You obviously don't play killer if you think a circle with a RADIUS of 40m is small. Doing some math, that's over 5000 square meters. That's like trying to find someone inside the entirety of Crotus Penn Asylum's main building. If you seriously can't hide from the killer inside that range than I don't know how else to help you.
Anecdotal evidence is only a thing when you are talking very specific situations. But I do it all the time in every situation. Other people have come in here saying they can do it, how is that anecdotal? Stealth is 100% completely viable in this game. You don't even need perks, just a basic understanding of how the killer sees the world. I will flat out just walk around a rock or tree right next to the killer and they won't see me because the object is breaking line of sight. And I'm not running or injured, so the killer has no idea that I'm there.
Go play killer, learn what they can see and what they can't, and you will be able to stealth just fine. If you want to live in denial you won't ever get better at the game.
Also, you seem to like running spine chill. Well guess what, stealth should be a GOOD option without ANY perks, ALL THE TIME.
1 -
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@powerbats said:
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.I have about 400 hours on Xbox, mostly as survivor. I have almost every survivor perk on my Jake, but often just run Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care, and then whatever else I feel like. I usually bring a toolbox if I bring an item, and it would be either a yellow or green with speed and charge add-ons. Currently (and several times previously) rank 1, and I have been in PLENTY of games with full rank 1/2 players including killer. I have juked every killer in the game on almost every map. I often pip with at least a silver in Evader, Iridescent if it's a long game or I get found and chased at least twice. Also unless other survivors are giving away your position, them being stupid shouldn't stop you from being stealthy.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
You are assuming jack, because you just dismiss everything I said. I explain to you, very clearly, how to stealth against these tactics. I do it all the time, against rank 1 killers. Once you get found though stealth isn't an option, you just run. Run until you are caught, the killer gives up, or (in many cases for myself) you actually mindgame the killer and get away legit.
Spine Chill tells you killer is looking in your direction. Nurse's has a 28m range, SC has 32m range. That means that you can tell the kill is looking at you before NC actually procs, and if you stop healing when SC procs then killer may only see you healing for a second at most. They are still 28m away which with anyone but Billy/Nurse means you have just over 6 seconds to move. Again, I do it all the time you just have to understand how SC works and react appropriately.
You obviously don't play killer if you think a circle with a RADIUS of 40m is small. Doing some math, that's over 5000 square meters. That's like trying to find someone inside the entirety of Crotus Penn Asylum's main building. If you seriously can't hide from the killer inside that range than I don't know how else to help you.
Anecdotal evidence is only a thing when you are talking very specific situations. But I do it all the time in every situation. Other people have come in here saying they can do it, how is that anecdotal? Stealth is 100% completely viable in this game. You don't even need perks, just a basic understanding of how the killer sees the world. I will flat out just walk around a rock or tree right next to the killer and they won't see me because the object is breaking line of sight. And I'm not running or injured, so the killer has no idea that I'm there.
Go play killer, learn what they can see and what they can't, and you will be able to stealth just fine. If you want to live in denial you won't ever get better at the game.
I’m rank 1 wraith, don’t give me “you don’t play killer” #########, it’s stupid, and promotes splitting the player baseyou ass. Not mentioning the simple fact you’re wrong with that assumption to begin with.
Was I talking to you? No.
The guy I was talking too doesn't play killer because if he did he would know what the killers sees. He'd also know more about how BBQ and NC, among other killer perks, actually work. Instead he wants to ignore my advice when I flat out explain how you can stealth killers. I do it all the time, at rank 1 and below. I've completely lost killers in a chase because I get how killer's perspective works and I understand line of sight, and I know when to walk and when to run.
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@powerbats said:
How many hours does he have in game, what perks/items/add ons etc. Are the people in his games competent, is he playing solo or in groups or with people who're grouped. Most of my games even with lvl 2's they're idiots, especially against a obvious camper. Get Lery's nurse hey lets feed the nurse camping the basement hooks from just out of terror radius.I have about 400 hours on Xbox, mostly as survivor. I have almost every survivor perk on my Jake, but often just run Spine Chill, Sprint Burst, Self Care, and then whatever else I feel like. I usually bring a toolbox if I bring an item, and it would be either a yellow or green with speed and charge add-ons. Currently (and several times previously) rank 1, and I have been in PLENTY of games with full rank 1/2 players including killer. I have juked every killer in the game on almost every map. I often pip with at least a silver in Evader, Iridescent if it's a long game or I get found and chased at least twice. Also unless other survivors are giving away your position, them being stupid shouldn't stop you from being stealthy.
@No_Mither_No_Problem said:
@thesuicidefoxLOL rebuttal I don't need to. You can counter all that, except for Doc (which I said in my post). Again read what I wrote because you are just assuming my argument otherwise.
I'm not "assuming" jack. You made invalid points for three elements of Killer detection and refused to acknowledge the rest. You claim you don't "need" to rebuke them because you have no real argument is my guess.
NC + M&A then don't heal unless you KNOW where the killer is. Also Spine Chill. You can stealth killers I do it all the time dude. It's knowing how the killer sees things, line of sight, being able to predict what perks they have. You might not always pull off the stealth but I can assure you it's all beatable.
Spine Chill tellls you when the Killer is looking in your direction. If you're healing and you see it go off, and the Killer has NC, that doesn't tell you to hide. It tells you you've just been found. The best you can do now is get a head start.
Oh and if you are too close for BBQ, the killer has NO IDEA where you are. A circle with a 40m radius is huge, I could be anywhere. If you get within range and he can't see you, then you are completely free to go where you want. I get inside BBQ range then leave. Easy.
You're SERIOUSLY underestimating the size of a 40m radius lmao.
I'm rank 1 survivor, and against good killers with BBQ if you play smart you can stealth them.
Really guys, it's not that hard to avoid.
So you're saying because you, one singular man, can be stealthy, that makes it not only feasible, but viable and easily done.
Anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy, just so you know.
You are assuming jack, because you just dismiss everything I said. I explain to you, very clearly, how to stealth against these tactics. I do it all the time, against rank 1 killers. Once you get found though stealth isn't an option, you just run. Run until you are caught, the killer gives up, or (in many cases for myself) you actually mindgame the killer and get away legit.
Spine Chill tells you killer is looking in your direction. Nurse's has a 28m range, SC has 32m range. That means that you can tell the kill is looking at you before NC actually procs, and if you stop healing when SC procs then killer may only see you healing for a second at most. They are still 28m away which with anyone but Billy/Nurse means you have just over 6 seconds to move. Again, I do it all the time you just have to understand how SC works and react appropriately.
You obviously don't play killer if you think a circle with a RADIUS of 40m is small. Doing some math, that's over 5000 square meters. That's like trying to find someone inside the entirety of Crotus Penn Asylum's main building. If you seriously can't hide from the killer inside that range than I don't know how else to help you.
Anecdotal evidence is only a thing when you are talking very specific situations. But I do it all the time in every situation. Other people have come in here saying they can do it, how is that anecdotal? Stealth is 100% completely viable in this game. You don't even need perks, just a basic understanding of how the killer sees the world. I will flat out just walk around a rock or tree right next to the killer and they won't see me because the object is breaking line of sight. And I'm not running or injured, so the killer has no idea that I'm there.
Go play killer, learn what they can see and what they can't, and you will be able to stealth just fine. If you want to live in denial you won't ever get better at the game.
Also, you seem to like running spine chill. Well guess what, stealth should be a GOOD option without ANY perks, ALL THE TIME.
It can be done perkless. Spine Chill makes stealth a lot easier, but you don't need it. And if we are assuming things are perkless, well if the killer doesn't have BBQ, NC, or Whispers, how do you expect them to find you? I'll tell you, by being SEEN. If they see you then you can't be stealth. If you run a lot you can't be stealthy. If you don't know where the killer is you can't be stealthy. But if they can't, you don't, and you do then stealth is easy AF.
1 -
Dont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
1 -
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
0 -
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
So you expect to just be amazing against a fully decked killer? GTFO dude. First it's not "oppressively difficult" it's easy. Stay out of line of sight, don't run, and know where the killer is. That's all you need to be stealthy. When you are on a gen and hear a heartbeat, against normal killers like Trapper the moment you hear it you have a little over 7 seconds to move. 7 ######### SECONDS. If you can't walk away behind a block or something and not get found with 7 seconds I don't know how to help you. That is half a totem dude that's like forever in this game. Maybe don't stay by a 90% gen when the killer kicks it because they will be really searching the area for you. Just walk away, go somewhere else. Stealth achieved, ez pz.
1 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
So you expect to just be amazing against a fully decked killer? GTFO dude. First it's not "oppressively difficult" it's easy. Stay out of line of sight, don't run, and know where the killer is. That's all you need to be stealthy. When you are on a gen and hear a heartbeat, against normal killers like Trapper the moment you hear it you have a little over 7 seconds to move. 7 [BAD WORD] SECONDS. If you can't walk away behind a block or something and not get found with 7 seconds I don't know how to help you. That is half a totem dude that's like forever in this game. Maybe don't stay by a 90% gen when the killer kicks it because they will be really searching the area for you. Just walk away, go somewhere else. Stealth achieved, ez pz.
I’ve only lost dozen or so survivors in my entire career, I’m a rank 1 killer... there is a definite problem.
1 -
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
Same reasoning your o so precious face camping is ok, cuz daddy devs said so. All perks should be the same strength, but shouldn’t trump entire mechanics, like bbq on billy.
1 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
Same reasoning your o so precious face camping is ok, cuz daddy devs said so. All perks should be the same strength, but shouldn’t trump entire mechanics, like bbq on billy.
Where did the devs say that a perkless Survivor should be easily able to counter any and all Killer perks? Also, just FYI, face camping has not existed for quite some time now.
0 -
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
Same reasoning your o so precious face camping is ok, cuz daddy devs said so. All perks should be the same strength, but shouldn’t trump entire mechanics, like bbq on billy.
Where did the devs say that a perkless Survivor should be easily able to counter any and all Killer perks?
Devstream in the 80’s, they stated both sides should be viable without perks at ALL times.
1 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
Same reasoning your o so precious face camping is ok, cuz daddy devs said so. All perks should be the same strength, but shouldn’t trump entire mechanics, like bbq on billy.
Where did the devs say that a perkless Survivor should be easily able to counter any and all Killer perks?
Devstream in the 80’s, they stated both sides should be viable without perks at ALL times.
"Viable" can mean many things. Your interpretation is way out of line, IMO.
0 -
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Orion said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
What's your reasoning for that statement? Because as far as I can tell, you want Killer perks to be so weak that a Survivor can essentially ignore them.
Same reasoning your o so precious face camping is ok, cuz daddy devs said so. All perks should be the same strength, but shouldn’t trump entire mechanics, like bbq on billy.
Where did the devs say that a perkless Survivor should be easily able to counter any and all Killer perks?
Devstream in the 80’s, they stated both sides should be viable without perks at ALL times.
"Viable" can mean many things. Your interpretation is way out of line, IMO.
It can mean many things. Yet you say my meaning is out of line, having no idea what the devs meant. That’s just plain stupid.
2 -
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
So you expect to just be amazing against a fully decked killer? GTFO dude. First it's not "oppressively difficult" it's easy. Stay out of line of sight, don't run, and know where the killer is. That's all you need to be stealthy. When you are on a gen and hear a heartbeat, against normal killers like Trapper the moment you hear it you have a little over 7 seconds to move. 7 [BAD WORD] SECONDS. If you can't walk away behind a block or something and not get found with 7 seconds I don't know how to help you. That is half a totem dude that's like forever in this game. Maybe don't stay by a 90% gen when the killer kicks it because they will be really searching the area for you. Just walk away, go somewhere else. Stealth achieved, ez pz.
I’ve only lost dozen or so survivors in my entire career, I’m a rank 1 killer... there is a definite problem.
Wow, you must be such an amazing killer. It couldn't be that 95% of the survivor player base is too incompetent to understand stealth?
Also by "lost" survivors you mean in a chase? Yea THAT IS NOT A TIME FOR STEALTH. I said this multiple times now, stealth is 100% viable BEFORE YOU ARE FOUND. I will bet you any amount of money, that you have had at least 100 survivors right next to you hiding and you just walked right past them. You would never even know the real number because you didn't know they were there. A survivor could be standing behind that 1 rock you didn't check thoroughly enough.
Get your ego in check.
2 -
@thesuicidefox said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefox said:
@Jack11803 said:
@thesuicidefoxDont twist it, I fully meant it should be possible sand not oppressively difficult to perform perkless against a fully decked killer
So you expect to just be amazing against a fully decked killer? GTFO dude. First it's not "oppressively difficult" it's easy. Stay out of line of sight, don't run, and know where the killer is. That's all you need to be stealthy. When you are on a gen and hear a heartbeat, against normal killers like Trapper the moment you hear it you have a little over 7 seconds to move. 7 [BAD WORD] SECONDS. If you can't walk away behind a block or something and not get found with 7 seconds I don't know how to help you. That is half a totem dude that's like forever in this game. Maybe don't stay by a 90% gen when the killer kicks it because they will be really searching the area for you. Just walk away, go somewhere else. Stealth achieved, ez pz.
I’ve only lost dozen or so survivors in my entire career, I’m a rank 1 killer... there is a definite problem.
Wow, you must be such an amazing killer. It couldn't be that 95% of the survivor player base is too incompetent to understand stealth?
Also by "lost" survivors you mean in a chase? Yea THAT IS NOT A TIME FOR STEALTH. I said this multiple times now, stealth is 100% viable BEFORE YOU ARE FOUND. I will bet you any amount of money, that you have had at least 100 survivors right next to you hiding and you just walked right past them. You would never even know the real number because you didn't know they were there. A survivor could be standing behind that 1 rock you didn't check thoroughly enough.
Get your ego in check.
I use green font to stand out from literally everyone here, the last thing I’ll do is check my ego. This entire time I’ve meant and included chases. It should not be easy at all, but definitely possible to juke a killer of equal skill, not a potato. Also, I’m fine with stealth mostly, just chases escapes, and bbq/ new bitter murmur. I’m fine with nurses whispers, doc, ect. It’s just those 2 perks I have a hating on.
1
