Legion Addon/Buff Ideas
Comments
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See your better than me, when Valentine's day came about I was hoping Julie and Frank would get some V-day cosmetics lol, I usually switch out the masks alot too, with Julie I have a bit more options for the torso though which I do appreciate lol
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I don't watch streamers but I do see plenty of Legions when I play survivor. Probably more than most killers. You won't be able to argue with me that people play him for reasons other than fun, especially considering he's certainly not top tier and really why would you play him then if you don't enjoy him. At most I'll agree he could use some minor tweaking like vault speed
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Yea, before I just stuck with the blue Xmas eyes and swapped out hoodies. I was waiting for a new knife and they announced High Vis. Granted I wish High Vis knife was the same quality as the OG Karambit Joey has, but it's still nice. I like the colors on it.There's not enough black/teal/green/blue skins.
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I play him cuz I like Legion. That's all there is to it. Why do I play all killers despite not liking some of them? To learn how to play them, get some variety, and freshen up the pools. When you really break it down, new Legion isn't any different from old Legion except he's forced to play a specific way.
You can't down with DW, DW doesn't do anything, he's basically old Legion but 115 and in permanent slow-mo. That's it. Nothing changed, they just took things away. Which is why I don't get the "unique" part of new Legion.
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The thing is, DW wasn't designed in the first place to be a reliable means of downing someone. It was designed to be a way of forcing survivors to waste time healing. Only it was poorly designed and easily abused+people didn't know how to play him but though they did. Now he has the ability to reliably dish out more pain, and the standard speed to chase someone down after the fact. It's a relatively simple ability but then so is Clowns, Wraiths and Trappers abilities and no one complains about those being boring.
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Show me trapper, clown, wraith mains then. People consistently complain about how poor those killers are. Yea you can get an ankle snap and that's nice, but that's if you play against potatoes. Clown's bottles don't do anything just ignore them and camp the pallet. Wraith? Stay on the long side of a loop and don't drop pallets early, or drop them early if he has Endfury.
They are also very basic, and in need of QOL changes. Difference is Wraith gets insane mobility, and actually decent addons. Trapper by some pure luck and good placement can get a snowball going, or a quick down. Clown, is, trash. There's nothing there. It's clown the name fits.
I'm ok with DW being changed to not draining, but the other nerfs were not necessary. The forums blew up with how angry they were about them gutting Legion. Even survivors were saying it was too much. Yet they didn't listen, cuz they'd rather cater to outcry than talk to players who know what they're talking about.
Read my original post. It makes DW have some bite, his addons very effective, and doesn't even change much about current Legion. I'd actually give him back his old numbers, vault speed + 3s fatigue, and he'd still be fine.
I don't want DW to down, it can't. Even if they're mending it can't. There's 0 reason to go down to DW. If you do, you deserve to die. It doesn't even waste that much time. If it was a good bit of time Doc would be more popular/strong cuz his time waster at least does SOMETHING. I wouldn't even say he can reliably dish out more pain. His old speed+duration made it a lot easier to get multi-hits, and you could easily catch people at 110.
Atm, Legion got literally all of his power removed to buff BT. He was trash before, and while a bit better in general now. That doesn't suddenly negate or remove the downsides that drag him down.
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Rework the pins they are the worst add-ons with frank mix tape and stab wounds study. Pins should apply the effect with the first hit , frank mix tape is useless and a time waster, SWS is the most useless of all due to DW effect rework which could be fix a bit by reducing the time to 10s instead of 30s.
@Caretaker Clown is weak in red ranks due to low pressure , bottle that do pretty much no difference (reduce MS by 15% and blur vision very slightly) the issue is that intoxication by default last 2s which is kinda weak + 4 bottles and very low reload speed by default doesn't help. Clown is very Add-ons reliant without being good anyway.
Wraith could get a buff by reducing the time to unclock slightly and increase his boost by 0,5s (2s instead of 1,5) this could add him into a solid mid-tier. i do not know much what he real need because i haven't play that much with him yet but, i'm going to begin the journey to p3 him so.
Trapper need less counter play he have too much by default ( can be dead harded , can be sabo , can be disarmed , can be very easy to see ) remove the dead hard counter play he would reduce the loops and make him way more viable.
To conclude Legion reduced movement speed + Frenzy deep wound effect being useless is what legion need fixing with his pins - FMT - SWS.
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I know you're a dev, but I call bull. I've stopped playing Legion all together and many others have also. You KNOW you buried him worse than Freddy with the nerfs. I'm actually insulted here. I feel as though you think we're stupid or something.
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Have you tried increasing the add-ons' duration and having them take effect upon the first FF M1, rather than the second FF M1? Ideally, they should last pretty long since they are likely going to be hooked after FF. And if you don't hook them after FF, it's an award for tagging multiple survivors since the time is now longer. :)
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No other killer can find survivors that easily and injure them. I think Legion is in a better spot then before and my fun with or against him didn't changed much. He injures as god as before and can down survivors as good as before, besides that moves faster. They only removed all the cheesy stuff from him
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@Orti Our problem, if you had been paying attention, was not that the cheese was removed. OUR PROBLEM was that Feral Frenzy itself was also gutted without any return in investment.
The Deep Wounds was a problem yes, and that was downgraded hard which was a good thing. But now Legion's other power, the most important one, was beaten down and broken without the common decency of a quick death.
If you had read all the posts, all the comments, hell, just the op, you'd had known what we are unhappy about.
The only reason why I'm not going back to Trapper is cause the Legion are customizable. And luckily, that can't be taken away.
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To be fair that is 123 reviews in just over two werks that make up that overwhelmingly negative, it is certainly a very small minority.
I think one of the main complaints with legion comes down to PC versus console as with PC you very rarely will miss a hit so the Cool down doesn't affect you as much.
Maybe they should do something about the hit mechanics on console to help balance that part out.
While legion was a bit gutted I can't think how they can keep counterplay with how their power works, the original concept was weak it just meant they would always to get someone down if they kept chasing, nothing you could do would change that fact.
Anything that grants a free hit nd can doen you doesn't work, no other killer gets a free hit without having to at least work for it, Legion was the only killer that did and why they were the most hated, they can still apply the first hit far easier than most other M1 killers though.
Personally I think Legion was a huge mistake and should be reworked with a new power as the deep wounds mechanic doesn't do anything worth having, giving borrowed time is not a fun mechanic as a power.
The problem is the other side, getting hit with no outplay was never fun, a killer which negated anything a survivor had to evade was also not fun, at least with the Nurse the player has to predict.
Now people are complaining they are not as fun to play, this is the case of course due to the changes but if you see above you are seeing what many other players have been going through for months.
Legion with their power imo can never be powerful due to how it was designed, if they get easy free hits and can down someone with that well it's more fun to play but not verse.and can never be a top tier killer as it would feel cheap.
Imagine if you were put into a lobby with Marths depip squad every single game, no one else just that squad, no matter what you did you would not come out enjoying that experience as that situation would be set against you from the start.
That is how the current survivor being chased by legion felt, there was nothing they could do about the situation and they would eventually go down, not due to skill but how the mechanics were.
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@twistedmonkey It is highly doubtable that'd they give The Legion a new power. But if they do, I would hope it'd be similar to my overhaul idea.
The problem with this current Legion is not that you can't use DW to down, we all know that needed to go, it's that they ALSO gutted Feral Frenzy. I am kinda fine with the stun now, but they gave us no reason to want to use the power except for a 'free' hit.
There is no reason Feral Frenzy should have the downsides it does while DW can do nothing besides give the survivors another healthstate. That's all we're asking.
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@almo I made a post with some suggestions that includes not necessarily even buffing legion himself, but giving him some genuinely useful add-ons since right now they're mostly pretty useless.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/62070/feral-frenzy-vault-speed-legion#latest
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Honestly theres no reason for a power bar/cooldown bar for legion..... with the inability to down anyone while in FF and a 4 second stun/ cooldown (whatever you you wanna call it.... its obnoxious that's what it is) when coming out of FF theres just no need for legion to have to wait to use their power other then player restriction.... before the rework you could spam attacks, down people (it was frustrating to play against) but now if they were to remove the power bar and power cooldown we have a much slower Billy that has no insta down capability... the legion would finally be able to use their power as intended because theyd be able to have map pressure...
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I don't either but I can hope.
That's the main issue with FF without it being able to down its never going to be good and when you can down with it it feels cheap.
FF is the overall problem as I see it, any power should have some counter play so making it faster would mean less and even more free hits so it can't ever be made powerful in essense.
If they increase its use and give it a larger downside to survivors when being hit then it become a very tedious mechanic to verse.
I don't see how they can make this power actually fun for both sides and why in the end they chose for a more mid tier viable solution.
The issue was the lack of insight in opening a can of worms such as this, not listening to the original ptb feedback and thinking it was fun for both sides when the concept was first thought of.
This is an example of something the userbase have asked for for a long time, a killer who could jump pallets, in part it shows not all ideas work out well as now we have the situation where a fun killer to play gets gutted as they were not fun to verse and they will have huge trouble making them fun again to play as the mechanic was a bad design choice.
That's just my opinion of course but I feel this scenario is another Freddy, an ill conceived thought which sounded good on paper which turned out to be the worst idea so far.
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@Shad03 And I say that's bs. Feral Frenzy still does it job fine, injuring survivors and tracking/ hitting multiple targets. Besides that you have a better mindgame potential then before (115% movement speed). Legion didn't get robbed in any way and his ability is still working fine.
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@Orti I really don't know how to talk to you in a way that you can understand what I mean. Everyone (the OG Legion players) has given (my personal opinion) valid reasons on why Legion is no longer fun to play as.
Just know that I'm no longer playing Legion because of their power. Cause at this point, the Trapper has a better stalling power potential then the Legion, who was designed to stall may I remind you.
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This is being considered, as per a recent Q&A:
EDIT: Thread moved to fast. I'm referring to this post: https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/491421/#Comment_491421
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@Shad03 wait so you assume I don't play Legion? I play Legion and Spirit mainly and that's why I always have to jump into discussion like this one. You all just say Legion is worse but they aren't at all.
I explained why legions power still works fine. I needed so much lesser words to explain why they didn't even changed that much and you all just miss the cheese. 80% of all legion players played cheesy before the change otherwise we wouldn't even get that change this fast ;)
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@Orti I made the mistake of assuming you didn't play Legion. Your reason for jumping into the topic is the same as mine, I am often playing Legion.
YOU are making the mistake of assuming we want the cheese. No, we just want Legion to feel like Legion (fast paced and frenzying) without the cheese. As we've been saying. For the last thirty or so comments now. If you told me you read this entire discussion I would call you a liar.
Post edited by Shad03 on3 -
I basically main Legion as Killer and I can pretty easily get a 3k/4k.
The main problem I face with him is that Feral Frenzy simply doesn't last long enough and the movement speed isn't fast enough to actually tag everyone within your Terror Radius with Deep Wound. With/without double duration addons it seems like you often just barely miss the Survivors on the edge of your TR. If the Survivor has an Exhaustion perk? Forget about it.
I'd like to see his movement/vault speeds back to what they were before with the current duration or maybe a longer duration since tunneling with Feral Frenzy isn't possible in the slightest anymore.
Also, losing FF on missed attack is just dumb.
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So I have been testing him and I would believe that the reason the numbers show that everyone is playing him at the same rate is due to that reason. We are feeling him out. In a month you will get a better view at how many are playing him because he is fun still and not because for 6 months players invested a ton of time and points in him and wanted to give it a chance.
My take on him is, I only use his ability as a tracker. Other then that he is a fast moving M1, a trapper with no traps that can move across the map faster then others via ability but when you factor in the self DS, it does not pay to use it often.
His add ons are limited use as well, only really good if you have damaging add ons, Time extenders wont get you to other survivors most often and as such you hit on and get close to another but they are already running and thus you never catch up in time. I would have gone away with the mend timer altogether and just made him have blindness first hit, second hit mangled and if you could land a third, exhaustion. That or allow the hit to show location for 20 seconds. make it a tracking skill. regardless the mend timer is the piss off for survivor and as Legion it does nothing.
We will see him used less and less and by Ghostface release almost never. Much like Plague who I rarely see we need to balance killers to rank 4 and not rank 12.
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@Shad03 I read the whole post, I have a lot of spare time at work lol I just think you all circling around an issue that isn't one. If you see his ability from a different view it works completely as intended. Track and hit, the ability is just not good to down survivors from a design point survivors don't like to get downed when robbed there protection mechanisms.
Actually if you use the iridescent button now legion is better then frank's mix tape legion before was. Legion still need some tweaks, vaulting speed/ animation is garbage, the pins need to be changed but besides from that he is fine and in an okay spot compared to other mid and low tier killers
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Can we just admit Legion's power isn't as exciting as it used to be lol. To take away most abilities and add some new small stack ups with add on's doesn't help them. In order to win you HAVE to down them. The only thing Feral Frenzy does at this point is buy more time to be an M1 killer.
The pin changes are cool but i feel like they should have been with them a while ago
side note too, this gut was def not a killer side request and survivors will cry about anything they die to and it hasn't changed when they die to new Legion.
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It's because they need majority hating on it, otherwise our feelings don't matter
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Nobody said Legion's new kit doesn't work, its the fact that people hate that it's now less unique and boring to play. Their power is a joke and you half don't need it now to win.
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@Orti I feel like this conversation has been going on a bit too long. And I doubt whatever the other says can actually change your or my view point. That being said, let me try one last time, you are free to answer back if you wish.
"I read the whole post, I have a lot of spare time at work lol I just think you all circling around an issue that isn't one. If you see his ability from a different view it works completely as intended. Track and hit, the ability is just not good to down survivors from a design point survivors don't like to get downed when robbed there protection mechanisms."
It was the same as last time. You had the speed, but not the duration to actually make use of it. Now it's that you have the duration, but not the speed. This constant cycle of giving but taking away is bull and makes trying to balance really tedious. You may have seen, but you have not read. Over and over again I have stated we are not asking for a power that kills, but a power that is fun and unique. Cause right now it feels like I'm playing how I would do if I was sent to Dead by Daylight as a killer. And that's not good.
"Actually if you use the iridescent button now legion is better then frank's mix tape legion before was. Legion still need some tweaks, vaulting speed/ animation is garbage, the pins need to be changed but besides from that he is fine and in an okay spot compared to other mid and low tier killers."
That's another thing for me at least. I don't want an add on reliant killer. I can play Trapper just fine without his traps, but that doesn't mean he's good. I almost never used Frank's Mixtape because I wasn't a Legion who enjoyed getting a heart attack on a second hit. ALL we are asking for, is for Feral Frenzy to be made great again. I don't care about Deep Wounds, I care about the fun I had vaulting stuff as fast as possible. Especially since attacking doesn't really do much anymore.
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@Shad03 no 115% killer needs his ability to kill at all the abilities of them just add variation to them or not? In which way their ability is comparable to another one? and I said the vault thing should be changed speed or animation I don't mind. It feels sluggish right now for sure,
I think the duration is enough to get multiple hits if survivors are clustered inside your tracking range. Sprint perks and swf are had counters to this but sprint perks should be a counter and swf isn't an issue of an ability.
I didn't meant that they need that addon I just wanted to mention a good addon change the devs did. In a perfect world no killer needs addons but to be honest I don't think we will ever be at this point. I don't like to use addons anyway, I'm too scared to lose them.
Anyway thanks for the nice chat and a good weekend!
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They nerfed EVERYTHING on him and gave him 115%. You say that's good? Really? His power isn't beneficial!
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Let's compare what Legion got/buffed to what was taken/nerfed. We're gonna combine that category.
Buffed/Given:
-115% MS
-Longer Duration
-Iri Pin is better, still bad, but technically better.
-Speed addons changed to detection range.(Speed did nothing, and these technically do something, but they're still meh and not worth a slot.)
-Duration addon buff.
Nerfed/Taken:
-Pin addons gained debuffs, but the effect will see 0 use and requires 2 hits. They're awful.
-Less FF movement speed.
-Miss an m1 lose entire power.
-Can't use power until fully charged(which m1ing actually still drains your bar, fun.)
-Slower vault speed.
-A HARSH FOV cut after fatiguing. (Not even mentioned, thanks devs.)
-CD addons nerfed.
-4s CD up from 3s.
-Frank's nerfed(Needed, but new Frank's doesn't do anything.)
-Can't down with FF.
-DW doesn't tick down in TR(Needed.)
-Loses all tracking while in FF, originally was just scratches.
-Can't moonwalk.(Needed.)
-32 TR up from 24.
-Recharge time 20s up from 15s.
TL;DR: He didn't get anything outside of some minor addon teaks/buffs, and faster general MS. Other than that they removed/nerfed most of his kit so the idea that he's somehow more unique now is just dishonest. You could play the current forced playstyle just fine before, and all they did was punish the players who played that way prior to the rework.
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