If this game is survivor favored then why...
Is the R1 survival rate (according to Peanits) 43%?
“I confirmed this with the data team this morning, the 80% isn't exactly accurate. The stats are taking your rank after the match, not the rank you went in with. The data was also collected between April 1st and April 7th, when it was significantly harder for survivors to pip. As a result, those who died typically deranked back to rank 2 and their death would be counted as a rank 2 death. It was very rare for someone to die at rank 1 and remain rank 1, hence the incredibly high survival rate.
Basically most of the deaths were counting towards rank 2, not rank 1, so the escape rate was much higher than it should be.
I received a stat for the escape rate from the 11th and it was around a 43% escape rate.”
Quoted from Peanits.
Comments
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Because killer mains demand survivors are nerfed into the ground so they can claim "EZ" after every game
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Honestly...
The game is swf favoured,Imo.
Solo surv is not favoured due to braindead teammates.
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That is a fair point, although a lot of swf are potatoes.
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Remove SWF. Fixed.
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One problem with these statistics though is that if only one survivor dc's it pretty much screws over every other survivor in the team as well. Those are two or three survivors who didn't escape because someone dc'd, and that isn't representive of the game's balance.
And as far as I know, dc's seem to be quite common.
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Pretty much no one demands that except for a few special people maybe. But there are also these special survivor mains that want exactly the same, just the other way around.
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Some of them are over altruistic.
But at red ranks ,SWF are a nightmare to deal with (as a killer), especially if you are not playing Nurse/Spirit/Billy...
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When you play killer how many times do you encounter cocky survivors who are not trying to hide, do objectives and think they can just loop you like their favorite streamer? How many people dc, suicide on hook or do unsafe unhooks?
In my opinion the only reason escape rate is not higher in general is because too many survivors mess around doing nothing. Killers don't have that luxury.
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I don’t think that is why the survival rate is below 50%.(response to ad19970s comment)
The problem with removing swf is that friends would just dodge till they all got paired.(response to Tensor)
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Let's say that is true that means that rank 2 has a higher survival rate than 60% and that's a huge problem. But to your question, once you go rank 1 you have nothing to do there so you play more relax start troll a little more and because you know you can go rank 1 any time you want. Those stats are not correctly or rather are incomplete we need kills per rank and per game to see if this is true or not. And don't forget they ask the number for those things they don't collect the stats they self.
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I want balance. I don't want to have an easy escape every match. But I want it balanced so that I at least have a chance.
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I see all of these occasionally but not on a common basis.
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Where are you getting 60% at?
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Well you are lucky then. I get a lot of dc's and cocky people. Winning games like that doesn't give me any satisfaction.
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Because rank 1 Killers play Nurse/Billy/Spirit/Hag.
That and there isn't really a well defined win condition.
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We still don’t know exactly how much the R2 survival rate is and the R1 43% stat is after they fixed the ranking.
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Nurse is 22.2% of games.
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Pretty much this. Plus, it's not like not surviving is a lose to them, a lot of them only get caught after they piped.
And the same does not happen to the killer as often. Games with 2k are at max a black pip, at least for me.
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The thing about these statistics as that when a killer is doing their job, it's hard until they get a kill and snowball the game. A survivor however has advantages of unbeatable crutch perks, a 3rd person camera, and items to assist in speeding up the game, and in some cases like Claudette just ######### disappear when they get further then 8 meters sometimes. I know, I've abused how broken it is to spot her sometimes.
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And my list contained 4 killers
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Their stats are skewed by a multitude of factors that make them near completely meaningless in terms of measuring balance.
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Wait, so you’re saying that people shouldn’t play top tier killers? K.
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Basically:
Nurse is slightly OP (with omega blink she's solidly OP) AKA S tier
Sprit/Billy/Hag are solidly balanced, A tier
Myers, plague and Huntress are borderline balanced (Still UP, but just strong enough to be viable), B tiers
Everyone else is underpowered to varying degrees.
Regarding the plague:
Yes I know that you can deny her corrupt by just not cleansing. But if you do that then that makes your whole team a 1 hit down that is projecting their location at all times. While that isn't top tier, it is strong enough to work with. Myers has a similar effect with his tier 3 but it's harder to set up and doesn't last forever, he has his stealth to make up for that fact however so he's still high tier.
Plus you can run thanatiphobia to instantly get like 16% slower gen progress on all 4 survivors just incase they play like that.
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43% escape rate means usually 2 escape and 2 die, doesnt it?
now, we are talking about rank 1 here, so a 2k usually means a depip - safepip for the killer, which is why a lot of people consider this a loss. (i blackpip with 4k's, and thats only rank 5)
but what many think about when talking about winning / losing is how much fun they had during the game. and for killers thats usually not too much. rank 1 is extremely stressfull for killers: a single mistake can cost you your game, while survivors have second chances over second chances. they screw up and get to deadhard out of the danger, or they MoM tank your hit or they get BT for being farmed, etc. fail one chase as the killer however and you will see how hard it is to recover. one missed swing can allow them to continue the loop once more, which can be the difference between weather they do repair a gen or not before you can reach it after hooking the guy.
also, extremely long loops where you dont even stand the chance to catch up (thinking of Haddonfield here) feel extremely cheap and just like bad gamedesign, that favors the survivors.
or gen times. without ruin its basically impossible to build any gen pressure (not impossible, but very hard). as an example: ive played Trapper a couple of days ago. in the time i set 3 traps, they have done a gen. 3 freakin traps. thats nothing!
and for the sake of solo survivors (like me) i will not even bring SWF up... a coordinated team is literally unbeatable for anything below a godlike nurse.
thats also what many mean with "just play killer for a bit and you will find out". they are referring to exactly those situations, where you just feel powerless. granted, thats not always the case, but it does happe. and believe me: the pain the killer players need to go through to achieve said 2 kills is a lot more than the survivors for repairing 5 gens and opening a gate.
i hope that clarifies it a little more for you ^^
have a nice day!
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Because killers also use op ######### in rank 1...
If anyone tells you the game is survivor sided while running omega blink mori nurse and insta saw billy...They're full of poo
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I myself find blinking around with Nurse fun, even if I lose. I’ve never been one to deny the gen rush problem, survivors need a second objective. Believe I play both sides and experienced death squads I understand the swf (death squad)problem.
have a nice day. :)
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I’d say nurse is fine without add-ons, you’re right about the other killers.
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Yeah, some of us want to be able to play killers we actualy like and at least have a chance to do well, instead of getting rofflestomped because we play weak killers. Some of us don't want to just win, some of us want to enjoy that, and not everyone enjoys billy/nurse. Thats all. I personally would love for Pig and Legion to at least be competitive.
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So, don’t play certain killers because you don’t think they are apart of the games balance?
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I’m a console nurse player and I don’t always win. I play for fun and fun is subjective.
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thats your sight on the matter, i wont deny that it is possble to just have fun. in order to achieve this though, you need to ignore the games winning system and just have fun, weather you win or not. i personally found it a lot of fun to start cosplaying as survivors with leatherface. (my most succesfull build would be the "claudette" build: rusty chain / begrimmed chain (both if you feel like it), Bloodhound, Sloppy Butcher, Thanatophobia, Coulrophobia - basically, you do what claudettes do: healing. just that it is now a LOT harder to do so for the survivors when you are around), yet i do feel it when i 3k or 4k and only safepip. sometimes i literally want the victory cube to return xD
however, there are people out there that play to win and especially these people will feel like the game favors the survivor side.
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@Mister_xD I’ve always ignored winning, that sounds pretty fun. XD
I wouldn’t mind the victory cube coming back. Some people do play to win, I myself don’t care about the balance too much and I mainly made this thread to see what everyone would say.
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fair enough xD
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I'm one of those people. If I can't feel like I'm working towards optimizing my winrate then everything else just kind of falls flat.
Who cares about unlocking perks? If there is no final objective then it doesn't amount to anything
Who cares about really cool strategies? Without a consistent goal there is no real way to differentiate between a good strategy and a bad one.
Why would I play in any way in particular? If I'm not optimizing for something then my actions are entirely arbitrary.
That's why the games stated goals (escaping for survivor and Killing everyone for killer) are so important while the emblem system I could care less about. AND it's a big part of why the game feels so survivor sided.
It's also why I don't think a 50% escape rate is even something you should consider balance. I know the devs consider it balanced, but I would disagree with them.
Think about escaping. If you can escape then whatever actions you took to get to that point were the correct ones. Maybe not always the smartest or nicest ones but they were definitely correct. You know this because you achieved your goal, and you couldn't possibly have achieved it better.
After all a bleeding survivor on death hook isn't more or less escaped than an untouched and healthy one if they both run through the door at the end.
However if you apply this reasoning to the Killer it doesn't hold as well. If I Kill 2 people then there is still more goal to accomplish, so I didn't win yet. If I Kill 3 people then again there is more goal to accomplish, so I can't say I've won. Hence why whenever I do winrate stat comparisons (I've done that in other posts) I always use 4k rate vs escape rate.
TLDR a fair winrate would need to be somewhere between 50% and 20% with 40-30% allowing for a lot of variety in outcome. 30% in particular actually has the interesting effect of making it so you can have it where all living players always have the same winrate no matter how many players are alive. Or in otherwords if you start with a 50/50 winrate for a 1v1 Survivor vs Killer and then work backwards then you end up with an overall winrate of 30%.
And everything about the game (besides the ranking system which is NOT the same thing as a victory system) supports the idea that it's 4k vs escape rate. The in game tutorial just flat out states that a survivors goal is to escape, and that a Killers goal is to kill the survivors. Each survivor can only escape once per game, and every Killer can only kill 4 times per game. So as a survivor if you escape once you win and if you kill 4 times as killer you win. And more importantly attempting to optimize those 2 stats is what leads to the full flow of the game.
If I'm optimizing a 3-4k instead of just a 4k, then that means once I've killed the 3rd person I can just go afk. If I'm optimizing for emblems then that leads to me playing in a weird artificially prolonged way that just feels incredibly forced (for both sides).
Optimizing for escaping ends up with an interesting balance between keeping the other survivors alive so we can do objectives and leaving them to die so the Killer doesn't get me instead. AND it requires me to master all of the aspects of the game (doing gens, looping, making saves ect). Trying to optimize something else like bloodpoints just leads to be doing things for the sake of it and not really ending up with a threshold which I can use to judge if I did enough or not. And if there IS a threshold then what do I do after completing it?
Even if I was trying to optimize for pips, how many? Do I only win with a 2 pip or is a 1 pip a win too? And that would mean that the balance of the game shifts depending on rank, which just isn't what a ranking system is even for. Like if it's 1 pip = win then why should I care about 2 pips? Couldn't I just math out how close I've gotten to a pip as a Killer and then when I've gotten enough just go to stand in a corner for the rest of the match?
Point is everything eventually wraps back to win conditions. And I mean EVERYTHING. Without a clear objective nothing works. Even sandbox games generally have something that you are working towards, like a main story line, or the top of a leaderboard, or even just a made up in game project which you hope to finish at some point. (I could never get into sandbox games for very long)
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Cause the Killer mains that frequent the boards greatly exaggerate. Nurse and Billy are a bit OP. Well, Nurse really could just start with losing her additional blink add ons and see where she falls to with that. Certain other Killers have OP add ons like Prayer Beads or just too annoying ones like OHKO hatchets.
Solo Survivor is rough right now. Lots of Survivors nerfs and Killer buffs have created mass death in in the purple ranks even. And you can't even rely on a hatch escape if something snowballs. And it only takes one snowball to really halt Survivor progress. Though I'm not advocating for mass changes, just maybe a kick to some of the obviously a bit strong Killers/add ons and some slight buffs to the weaker ones.
Still waiting for Small Game to have a totem counter as well. It'd be solo helpful!
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1 thing have to be clear here, killers SHOULD be strong, they should be more than the survivors, survivors have tools and perks and teamwork on their side, so they have to make their way by working together, if the killers are only balanced and made fair, they stand no chance, billy is strong and only got his add-ons and chainsaw hitbox changes, they don't dare to change him more because people will go absolutely MAD and they know it, he is a powerful killer, same as nurse, they are strong! how they should be, but now they make such weak/neutral killers than survivors are so used to have neutral killers that they complain when one is too strong or that killers are cry babies and cry to be more powerful, we are meant to be strong, we are meant to kill you, while you are meant to survive, if spirit could see survivors in phase walk, nurse would be freddy tier compared to her, balance is needed yes, but keep killers 1 tier higher than survivors at all time, that's how it should be, they failed with plague, they made her same tier as survivors, what happens? survivors don't heal, they need to add 1 tier to her, and give a penality for not healing, wraith has no ability to down survivors but in chases, being able to hit survivors when you hit the bell for the first time wihtout any speed boost would be a tier up for him, even if the freddy rework is near, if he could go invisible time to time like spirit, it would be a tier up, and so on, every killer should be 1 tier higher, billy nurse and spirit are 2-3 tiers higher, but they are the exceptions, keep killers 1 tier higher, and the game will be fine.
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@suffering23 literally not how balance works. If the 2 sides are the same tier then by definition they should both win just as much.
If Survivors not cleansing is a consistent and total counter to the plague then what that means is that the plague is NOT on the same tier as the survivors.
The fact that Spirit has both guaranteed counter play which itself has guaranteed counter play and so on means that it's SPIRIT that's on the same level as survivors and NOT the plague. Same for Billy and Hag.
Billy's power isn't strong, rather his power is just strongER (compared to most other Killers). That's just the amount of power you need in order to equal a team of survivors of equal skill.
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Wanna throw this in, survivors can use ultra rare items and keep their items and some addons in a game, as long as they don't use it fully and escape they get a free, refilled item.
Killers, however, have to use an offering to keep their addons, can't get addons ingame, and will need to pay BP in a randomly generated shop, meaning they're more expensive to upkeep builds with, and don't have a chance for a free item.
Killers also have the disadvantage on 80% of the loops, I can't wait for the loops to be shortened. Only problem is with more pallets, it's just gonna create a system where one person can always drop a pallet and be safe, since the killer either stalls themself breaking the pallet, getting stunned by it, or survivor waiting at the pallet. If the killer gets stalled, they just move to the next one and are immediately safe again (or simply stall the killer at the current one) buying a lot more time for other survivors.
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Most games will not have God SWF teams that can take advantage of it, though.
Higher skill cap, higher reward.
In reality making the most out of the "survivor-sided design" requires an incredible level of skill, coordination and teamwork, even with comms. It's like Nurse: high skill cap, high reward. But the cap here is even higher.
The truth is that the actual stats show that survivors as a whole cannot play good enough to even just match killers.
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Is that the sweet sound of denial I hear?
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If you don't know how to interpret data and just want to post toxicity why do you even reply?
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It's survivor favored when a Forum Killer main loses a match.
Remember kids, when a Forum Killer main loses a match, they will make sure to let the whole forum know how bad and trash this game is.
:^)
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Anyone else remembers when they released statistics that showed that only 24% of survivors use SC?
Yep, this stat is just as "accurate"
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I win 9 out of 10 Killer matches
I win 1 out of 10 Survivor matches
Math is hard.
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Swfs dont play like the totally nonreal sweaty tryhard depid squad because they dont have to. Nor do they want to because they dont have to.
If all sirvivors would play to escape instead of "totes chat with friends, have fun and talk about cute boys"... then ohboy stats would be different. Go do maths on chance for killer wins with a 43 % winrate PER survivor. sounds rather high lol.
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Killer has 4 lives (4 chances to fail)
Survivor has 1 life (one chance to fail)
Math is hard
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And I'm saying that in the very small number of cases where they do, it's FINE. Killers are allowed to lose!
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@Raptorrotas but I like talking about cute boys.
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