Why on earth do you punish killers for people picking decisive strike?!
Seriously, just another ludicrous design choice here...
Why do you literally penalize a killer's ranking pips if someone uses decisive strike on them? You can't tell they have it, unless you waste a rare mori then you can't get around it, but if they use it on you you literally lose pip progress each time it's been used.
How much more anti-killer does this game have to get. You might as well just auto-derank killers because survivors went SWF and/or picked perks at this point.
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I mean you still can kill survivors so they ( devs) have to make sure you will not
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Wait what do you mean by "penalize a killer's pips if someone uses DS on them"?
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I forget which one of the emblems it is, but it gets a pretty heavy penalty for people escaping your grasp. Its probably such a large penalty because letting a survivor wiggle out of your grasp is a pretty big fail, and they just forgot to adjust the number after they added a survivor perk that lets them escape without the killer messing up.
Depending on how many people run DS and how they use it, you could derank/safety instead of ranking up if they lower the emblem from iridescent or gold.
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You can tell just like before if someone has DS or not. If you're not using an obsession perk, and there's an obsession, it's almost definitely DS.
Also "unless you waste a rare mori then you can't get around it"? The way around it is called not tunneling.
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The way around it is called not tunneling.
My problem with this is it discourages tunneling to such a degree that there's nothing to discourage hook dives. If you hook someone and 5 seconds later, when you are not attempting to camp/tunnel they are unhooked, are Killers supposed to let that happen for free and patrol other side of map? So they can get looped for 2-3 more gens? Or rather punish the unsafe unhook and be accused of "tunneling" and in the process punished by DS for an action we were forced into if we want to do well.
Used to be unsafe hooks were punished, and they should be, but now what do you get for hitting a Surv fresh off the Hook? You have to leave them on the ground for 1 minute, which means either letting gens get done if you camp them or letting them get healed up if you patrol.
The presence of DS alters Killer behavior in a way that makes hook dives which should be punishable, unpunishable.
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They do need to tweak the penalty for letting a survivor out of your grasp but besides that ds isn’t much of a problem anymore. Less people are running it because it’s now situational, and for an unsafe unhook just down the survivor who got unhooked (unless they have borrowed time) then chase the survivor who unhooked them that way you can have three survivors occupied with something other than gens one downed one reviving and one being chased.
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The problem with this is the number of survivors who use DS as a shield to do things like perform unsafe unhooks. I go after the unhooker rather than the survivor who was just unhooked but can still get DS'd by the unhooker. Killers have to keep track of a lot of stuff, so knowing whether or not it's been 60 seconds since the unhooker was unhooked is not something I'm going to automatically be aware of. I'm not saying "Ohmigod, get rid of DS!" because DS has its place, but a killer's emblem score shouldn't be penalized for it.
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Here's a scenario for you:
Survivors are hook camping and go for an unsafe unhook by an open exit gate
There where no other hooks further away, if you had tried to get to another hook they'd have escaped, and dropping them as far as you can away from the gate isn't an option because they can crawl out within the EGC timer and trying to pick them up again once they near the exit results in them escaping anyway.
You don't have Noed because your not a scrublord and wouldn't have done anything anyway because of the above reason.
All other Survivors have full health and those that aren't trying to body block the unsafe unhook are waiting by the exit gate mere feet away.
You have one, JUST ONE option and that is to tunnel the Survivor who just got rescued and HOPE they don't have MoM or DH and that the rescuer didn't have Borrowed Time.
You down the Survivor, you can't leave them to bleed out for 60 seconds to safely pick them up or they'll escape.
In this scenario where your only option is to tunnel, upon which finding out you never had any option in the first place because of DS? Bad game design. Every situation should always be counterable with the right application of tactical nuance.
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Well there's already a timer for what counts as safe and unsafe hook. Surely if they go down during unsafe hook time, it shouldn't fire? That would at least help. However, it doesn't help the fact that you can still drop 12% score in a pip if 4 survivors take DS, which SWF teams love to do (and idk about you but SWF is 99% of all games here in the UK)
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who cares about ranks anyway just play and have fun without tryharding
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besides, DS is countered by simply not tunneling
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It's actually funny how many times this exact thing happens to Killers who aren't Billy/LF. All 5 people in the lobby know exactly how this is going to play out if the right perks are in play.
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@DoubleTap Solution: Wait for them to commit to an unhook in front of you and then grab the unhooker. You can then immediately drop them, if another survivor goes for the save and gets it then you can just hook the survivor you just grabbed.
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@NuclearBurrito Although occasionally that does work it just doesn't work consistently enough to be a reliable skill based tactic. You have to time the grab precisely on a non consistent system (which isn't possible) and is just as much based on timing as it is on luck.
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It's a 2 second window and you have nothing better to do.
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You might say to just wait for it, but you're also just burning what chances of rank-up you have by standing in proximity to a hooked survivor. At least if you're orbiting to keep them away (or trying to get a first hit in so early that you might get the 2nd hit during the unhook), then you might not be losing your pip as fast. In the end, Decisive Strike is just pretty unbalanced, and people know to suicide-unhook specifically because of it.
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@TrasloganIf there are other Survivors camping the hooked Survivor you don't get any hook proximity penalty right?
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My understanding of it, which could be wrong, is that unless you are in a chase actively, your proximity counts either way.
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As I think someone has mentioned above though, what if someone is unhooking and they both have Decisive Strike? It's not uncommon to see SWF teams where everyone runs it and you can't tell due to only having one obsession. You end up in a situation where you have to be the bloodpoints-pinata and just let them run away, or you edge closer to a derank just because you did your job as killer and punished an unsafe hook (And the point is, that's no longer really punishable, the punishment is on the killer for daring to not let them go free)
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DS is balanced since its last buff (3sec stun to 5sec) and the fact its mechanic is abused by SWF groups isn't the reason to nerf it. It's around SWF, not the perk
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So it's balanced that survivors with DS can unhook survivors with DS so that a killer is punished for trying to punish unsafe hooks? Or that suicide-unhooks (usually in the same dual-DS situation) when exit gates are open are guaranteed to let everyone escape? How on earth is that balanced. And then the killer actually loses rank progress each time those survivors use DS anyway, and because it's such critical meta, everyone runs it so you can't rely on the obsession to work out who has what.
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This isn't right. The 4 conditions that prevent standing within 16m of a Hooked Surv penalizing Chaser are:
- Killer is in chase
- Any other Surv is within 16m of the Hook
- It's the last Survivor
- Hook is on different floor than Killer
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If killers get penalty because survivors use DS, then that's BS.
But DS is the only the anti-tunnel perks when you play solo, it'd be unwise to remove/rework it.
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The game is awfully balanced either way, Solo survivors do get wrecked, and then SWF maximize their safeguards and use comms to completely reverse the balance. The problem is SWF is hilariously common now. I've been told the devs said 4-man SWF is like 10% of the game or something, but in the UK/EU that's a lie, we get 95% SWF of 3-man and 4-man now. And It's really bad watching 4 decisive strikes on every team because they all know they can suicide unhook each other at the right time and either way you'll get stunned and take a loss of rank.
It's like Sabotage, it's another system that has kind of just become redundant due to nerfing. You can no longer punish unsafe hooks in any shape or form, and instead if you even attempt it you as the killer will be punished for playing.
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dont tunnel, dont get D-striked.
the only nerf i could get behind would be to deactivate it when someone else gets hooked and your not downed. to balance that out we could say the perk does not deactivate while a survivor is downed.
that way it would be a pure anti tunnel perk.
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It's clearly not about tunnelling. If you see someone blatantly running for an unsafe rescue, bear in mind the game literally recognizes when a rescue is unsafe (it hurts survivor rank if they did it unsafely, e.g. the person got downed soon after), then you go for the punishment. They aren't waiting, they aren't helping their friend, they're getting points just for points.
But then DS players rescue DS players unsafely on purpose, so that whoever you go for, whoever you punish, you are punished as the killer for not just pretending you saw nothing and refusing to touch half the enemy team.
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slug them for 60 sec.
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You can't, they tell their SWF team to come get them, the two of them spread out until it's clear you can't get both. Just another way that DBD is just so awkwardly made that it creates imbalance by default.
Better yet, the exit gate is close enough for them to crawl towards within an entire minute and you literally can't do anything. Again, broken by default.
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If EVERYONE has DS, you can only tell if 1 person has it. You got 3 big hits to your emblem because you cannot see it.
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Or a smart solo player can pick them back up or delay the killer for them to escape by crawling. I wouldn't discount solo players.
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Either way, it's still a punishment for the killer in multiple forms. Denying kills and rank in unreasonable ways. Survivors have this, adrenaline, dead hard, mettle of man, they can run rings around killers these days, but this one specifically means they don't even have to get in a chase, they just get to punish you for trying, and the other big survivor perks don't actually cause deranking of the killer in the same way.
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