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Simple SWF Nerf Idea
SWF members receive an additional requirement for ALL action speeds:
2 SWF= increase required action speed by 15%
3 SWF= increase required action speed by 25%
4 SWF= increase required action speed by 35%
Note: if there are solo survivors queuing with the SWF members, they Do Not receive the increased required action speed.
Comments
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so survivors get punishments by trying to survive since it's impossible without swf. yeah GG
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I escape half of the time on red ranks as solo. It is not impossible to survive.
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Can never work
Solo survivors get punished indirectly by having worse teammates
SWF can just dodge lobbies until they all get into the same one and bypass the debuff
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And this is what is the problem with ALL SWF-ideas:
The Tryhards will bypass this by lobby dodging.
The Casuals will suffer and most likely not play anymore.
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This would hit solos more than swf, since the debuff would affect the whole match but swfs at least know it in advance and can help eachother.
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Something like that but decreased would be better, it's not enjoyable getting gen rushed to ######### all the time, by the time one chase is done and the guy is hooked a gen or two is already done, sucks that the game is balanced around really strong killers and doesn't accommodate for weaker ones.
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Thank you for everyone's feedback and being pretty respectful
First of all, when i say "increased REQUIRED action speed", I mean, "decreased action speed"; so SWF members need to spend more time on actions
The reason for this is whole idea to DETER SWF members from queuing but not make it that difficult for Solo survivors or make it too easy for Killers
The biggest action speed change is going to be when it comes to Repairing Generators, which is usually the Killers problem when it comes to SWF groups: Gen Rushing. I would even be okay if we made the "increased REQUIRED action speed" only affect Gens.
@toxicmegg I don't understand what you are talking about; I solo all the time and escape the majority of the time. Also, you do not need to escape to Pip, or even have fun.
@Madjura I can kind of see what you are saying, but i don't understand your "having worse teammates" concept; the entire premise of the game without SWF is queuing with RANDOMS in order to have an exciting game experience. Also, the SWF could be bad, or they could be good: it is the same odds.
@Aven_Fallen The Casuals and The Tryhards are doing this currently. You need to be more specific: are you talking about Casual and Tryhard Soloists, or Casual and Tryhard SWF?
@White_Owl I totally see your perspective. Thank you for that insight that I missed.
I still feel the idea is there, but maybe the percentages could be tweaked; In my opinion, I feel the percentages are decent.
As far as the SWF knowing and Solo not knowing, that is up to the SWF team to let the other Solo survivors know.
I feel the percentages that I have suggested level the potential playing field as far and SWF goes without being too demanding of the Solo survivors.
One thing that COULD be done is let everyone in the lobby know who the SWF members are by some sort of symbol, but this would encourage lobby dodging, even more that it is already done.
@RIP_Legion i think you may have misunderstood my idea; I'm suggesting that SWF members action speed be decreased... or "REQUIRE more time". My idea is to SLOW the Gen Rush by making SWF action speed take longer. I tried to make that clear, but hope this clears it up.
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None of this addresses the actual problem with SWFs which is the ability to coordinate and share information in real time. Even though some devs seem to think most SWFs are on comms just talking about dinner plans and boys...
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It may not "address" it, but it still provides a solution to DETER SWF groups from forming and providing a detriment for those who do.
unless you have the ability to cut the ability to use Discord, or whatever you use, that cannot be stopped.
My idea creates an incentive/ADVANTAGE for queuing SOLO
until DBD can figure out the best possible solution, this is, as I put it a SIMPLE rework
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So decreasing action speed? May decrease encouragement for players to actually team up...
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Correct. it decreases the incentive for SWF from forming
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So then, basically what is the point of even having the SWF option, if like you said it is supposed to decrease people teaming, then there's no need for that option then. You just explained how survivors teaming should be something they want to avoid, and I'm not very good at the game, despite my hours, and I like to have fun with friends, but since you think it should be something we get punished for, then most people will end up going to KYF to hang out and have fun, rather than play solo or with randoms because they don't have anyone to talk to or hang out with. Which can also effect streamers who like to SWF with their followers or subscribers, same with people who make youtube videos, it would just have no point and could effect their careers, because it gets kind of boring just watching or being alone with only being able to talk to the chat, which most people even lurk but keep the view. I hope you understand where I'm coming from. If the dev's think that SWF is a problem they'll come up with it, but what you just came up with, could reduce a gen to over 2 minutes for a survivor to repair combined with thanatophobia, dying light, etc. could lead to over 2 mins and 30 seconds. And a gen by a survivor alone is already 80 seconds, combined with another survivor takes at least 10 seconds away. So why increase the time for survivors working together by 10, 20 seconds, etc.?
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@Koe_ween First of all, those numbers are NOT definite.
Second of all, 2 SWF would make a normal 80 sec gen be only 12 sec longer
here are the stats basically:
2 SWF = 92 sec/gen
3 SWF = 100 sec/gen
4 SWF = 108 sec/gen
If that's too much for the DEVs in their opinion... they could bring it down to 10%/20%/30%:
2 SWF = 88 sec/gen
3 SWF = 96 sec/gen
4 SWF = 104 sec/gen
or here's yet ANOTHER idea, 5%/10%/15%:
2 SWF = 84 sec/gen
3 SWF = 88 sec/gen
4 SWF = 92 sec/gen
Also, this will NOT affect the career of streamers; it may even enhance it: it would create more tension, in my opinion. A GOOD streamer will use dull moments to their advantage by thanking people for subs or responding to comments.
Although, I do want to thank your for bringing up Thanatophobia AND Dying Light, because I did not take those into account... same as Coulrophobia.
A) Dying Light is hardly used, and if it does end up being used, it's speed penalties are doing their job for such a difficult task to pull of...theoretically.
B) Coulrophobia is hardly used and could use my idea to give it a slight buff
C) Thanatophobia... You make an excellent point with this one. Because of you bringing this up, I would have no issue this my initial percentages being reduced.
I feel like it would be great for the DEVs to hire gamers or even volunteers to test ideas like these out to see how they work.
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It's not impossible. I almost never play SWF. That's truly ridiculous to claim.
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My issue with this, and don't get me wrong, is that it's punishing people for just wanting to hang out with their friends and bond over a game. Yeah, there's sweaty Survive With Friends, but there's also people who just want to play the game with friends. Take a YouTuber/Streamer called Zet0r for example. He and his friends almost never use Survive With Friends to be toxic, they just play the game through the highs and lows. Survive With Friends would also punish solo survivors with this debuff. Let's say you queue solo survivor and get matched with a 3-man survive with friends, no toolboxes, rank 20, so they're bad at skill checks, but they're just a few Baby Dwights trying to enjoy the game. Then you as a solo survivor are getting punished, because let's be honest, Rank 20's have trouble with Skill Checks, and the additional wait time because of Survive With Friends means the match will take forever. The Survive With Friends won't understand why the Survive With Friends debuffs are in action, as their innocent minds have not yet seen Sweaty Survive With Friends, and in some cases, may just outright stop playing the game because they can't play with friends or they'll get punished for it. This isn't a problem just at rank 20, mind you. Even at high ranks survivors are almost always Survive With Friends, and still, the Solo Survivors will be miserable because of their teammates not being able to complete generators, heal them (Especially with Coulrophobia and Distressing builds), and Survive With Friends will be miserable because they will in theory become worse teammates, and we can't forget THIS.
Remember that, all those years ago? When Bill came out, with his perk, Borrowed Time, it was beyond powerful. Because of this, many killers went on "strike" and stopped playing the game. We cannot let history repeat itself, and Survive With Friends may go on "strike" until the changes are removed from the game.
I think a survive with friends indicator for other survivors would be nice, so when a survive with friends joins the survivors (not the killer, lest lobby dodging could become popular) will receive this notification.
"Hello, Survivor. A Survive With Friends has just joined your lobby, they will suffer from a slight action debuff depending on how many of them are in the lobby. Currently there are X players, so they will receive a X% penalty on action speeds."
Another change I saw you bring up was Coulrophobia, Thanatophobia, and Dying Light.
Dying Light has very large penalties, so reworking Dying Light would be in order, because it is a very flawed perk at its base. It encourages tunneling, is easily neglected by DS, and makes the game miserable for survivors because they can't do anything about it once the penalties occur.
To make things easy for myself, I will give a summary "rework" for Dying Light.
Dying Light
You become obsessed with a Survivor.
Your obsession's altruistic actions speeds are increased by 10/15/20%.
For everytime you hook your obsession, gain a token.
For Each token, survivors suffer a 2.5/5/7.5% debuff to all action speeds.
If Survivors are in a Survive with Friends, half of the penalty will stack.
Coulrophobia doesn't need a rework, but similar idea, half the penalty stacks to Coulrophobia, and Thanatophobia isn't really all that much of a problem is the penalty is decreased to 10/15/20% for Survive With Friends, because let's be real here, no one uses Thanatophobia after the nerf.
I don't think Survive With Friends should be punished, but instead the experience should be more fun for killers and solo survivors, so maybe a Survive With Friends rework should be thought about to make it more fun for killers, but maybe a band-aid fix could be made such as.
"Killers will gain +25% Bloodpoints at the end of the trial if a survive with friends was active in the trial."
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@AnthonyC2014 I think the Bloodpoint bonus for killers idea is actually pretty good. I would like to see that.
In my opinion, I think this game is best when ALL survivors are Solo queued; that's the fun of the game and why I solo: you need to adapt and overcome while working in unknown conditions with random survivors
My idea actually comes from Dark Souls: it being a hard enough game as it is, and when you enlist the help of others to tackle a boss, the boss's health is increased due to the amount of people helping you.
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Or just give the killer a BP bonus post trial based on how many SWF members there were and they also get more lax emblem requirements; that's how killers should be compensated without making them more powerful or making the survivors worse imo. There are a lot of killers (including myself) that see SWF as an opportunity to get better at the game instead of being unfair; and that makes sacrificing them that much more satisfying. Making that easier would completely remove that and it would make those matches boring.
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That is what @AnthonyC2014 had suggested, and I think that is a good idea too; if the DEVs decide on that, I'd be cool with that.
Interestingly, I don't even play SWF often; I SOLO queue the vast majority of the time.
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have to agree a Nerf is needed for swf. This sounds a lot better than what i had in mind lol.
I was thinking about making thread myself until i say this. Keep getting body blocked as a killer vs these teams and reports don't seem to work on pc/console. But i thought about if they are in a party using mics that maybe if they are talking they appear on the map. Like if a guy clear across the map screaming at his friend on the other side. If they are talking when near by it will teach them to be quiet. DBD can run something that checks for these voice chat software running on pc and try to persuade them to do something about console.
Many ideas in here a great like the BP bounus, but i would add something like taking away one perk slots, or adding an extra gen requirement for 6 gen having to be completed, not allowing certain perks to be equipped in swf, or not allowing any type of voice chat.
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@TerrorTrooper why are you reporting for bodyblocking? That isn't against the rules unless it's the kind of bodyblocking that takes the game hostage (killer blocking all survivors so they can't do gens and trigger EGC, survivors locking killer in exploit spots). Taking hits for other survivors isn't reportable.
And on the thread in general, the fact your motivation is to deter people from playing with friends is laughable. Punishments already wouldn't work (casuals quit, "hardcore SWAT depip death squads" just dodge lobbies until they get eachother as solos) and that motivation is just pathetic.
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Punishing people for playing together shouldn't be a thing.
Rather, reward players who play with/against SWFs. Add a SWF indicator in the lobby, so solos can decide if they wanna risk it and so the killer can decide if they're brave enough. Add bonus BP (post-game) that scales with the amount of players in SWFs to everyone want complete a trial with them.
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Killers are punished hard by SWF, think of all the perks that are no longer needed with voice comms, plus things that would just not be possible without voice are made possible. (edit: it negates quite a few killer perks as well) its like playing with 30+ perks.
there needs to be some sort of negative to balance the massive positive, extra bloodpoints is laughable.
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There is no need for SWF punishment, my choice in Killer, perks, add ons, and playstyle is already punishing enough.
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@LiquidLink1988 Yes, thank you. I didn't know the time very well but thank you for providing them for me, I do get what you mean and the devs could test it out and see it, though I do think it isn't very likely they'll end up going through with it, no offense in anyway of course. I'm glad though that you did take Thanatophobia into consideration because remember, when they add something new to the game, they have to look at everything they already have. That's all, your idea was interesting and I'm glad I was able to see it and put my own opinion on it! <3
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@AnthonyC2014 I disagree with you saying not many people use Thanatophobia, I run into a killer who uses it at least every time I play it, so you saying it isn't used much confuses me. If Thanatophobia was added, if all survivors were injured and trying to repair gens, that's an extra 16% added to their punishment. I only wish that instead of punishing SWF, it rather gives the killer an indication in the lobby to know who is SWFing because there are moments where I join a lobby and someone does at the same time and the killer ends up thinking I'm SWFing with them and I get yelled at in the endgame chat about how I need other people with me to be good. And it could give the killer a heads up so they can try and form a plan or game play depending on their map and their perks, add-ons, and even offering. That's all. But what you said is true about the whole strike thing, we don't want OR need one of those right now.
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i agree with the idea but what you suggested are underpowered value
idk how much you been played dbd but 15% is more than toolboxes
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Look. The only real way to fix SWF is to make it's benefits redundant or at least close enough to redundant.
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