What people don’t realize about adding a second objective.

@GrootDude tunneling doesn't really need any fix right now. there's currently a nice amount of counters for tunneling. for example. defensive strike. make your choice. etc.

i don't really think tunnelers should get punished. because there's perks like Remember me. or Dying light that suggests tunneling the obsession (which also increases the chance of tunneling the person who was defensive strike cuz they're both obsession perks). adding punishments for tunneling would be a huge nerf for every perk that is focused on stopping/starting the tunnel

for me. the only thing that i have in my mind that can help against tunneling is to add more things that rewards the killer when he's not tunneling (like what Make your choice is doing)

@Pike_Trickfoot The issue of this thread is: Currently, killers don't have enough time to get their objective done - do we need a 2nd objective for survs?

If you don't shorten chases, then the survivors have to do more than repairing 5 gens.

If you keep chases the same length AND don't give the survivors more work to do, then nothing will change for the killer.

This is not a thread about map design.

In a way we have a 2nd Objective already, Hex Totems, technically those are a 2nd Objective for Survivors as they would want that destroyed so they can do Gens.

But besides that the ''2nd Objective'' doesn't have to be big, it can be small, not totem small but still small and if it's small enough then nothing needs to be changed. This a game and anything can be added, even things that don't require huge changes. It all depends on what exactly you're adding.

For example, it has come up twice as far as I know where the Gen could overheat or maybe you need a Gas can. Those are small and it would definitely slow the game down but not enough where the top Killers need nerfs. But if you added repairing the Exit Gates after the Gens are done then NOED becomes a problem. Sure just get rid of the totems beforehand but if they didn't and can't find the totem then this 2nd Objective becomes borderline impossible; especially with a Spirit, Billy, or Nurse with NOED.

Me personally I think it would be cool to just find large gears or box of equipment to ''install'' into the Gen first before starting to repair the Gen.

And I made a suggestion on how to fix the problem. Something which you had brought up previously yourself. I’m getting the feeling you disregarded what I said. Just think about it for a moment. Map design is a huge factor to why killers cannot pressure. Even grootdude and others brought this up earlier. A second objective will change map design. It literally falls back to map design. All of these mechanics revolve around how the map is.

So your example. You are asking to add something permenant to the map. Something that adds another mechanic to the game. It will be an interactive object on all maps. The map rng will have to generate that x number of whatever within certain placements that’s x distance away from both gens and the other version of said object. This may also need gen placement spawns to also change and be more wonky than before (look at pallet spawns as an example for that).

Now take a look at the map themselves. Some of them are already too cluttered to manage this unless other parts of the map were changed. I’m not sure how big this new variable will be, but it will affect the placement of other things. This may even break the map itself and force other rng things to bug. Adding anything like this falls under the the category of map design as you are adding variables to the set design already in place. Adding something isn’t as easy you make it seem. Especially since each new patch brings new and old bugs back to the game.

I honestly don’t care either way, so please don’t assume I support something because I play devil’s advocate and try to point out things from both sides that aren’t mentioned. My opinion is that the two things you suggested earlier aren’t mutually exclusive and both can possibly be implemented and have the possibility to not kill the game, but I would be happy with either. I’m always down for testing out ideas and tweaking so you can see if something actually works or not.

@NoShinyPony Okay mom.

Pig/Plague additions: Say you have your new variable along with this. You are limiting the spawns for both. Placements will have less rng because there will be less spots. Makes them easier to find (if there’s no aura to your addition like totems). Add a perk to help you find them. This adds a small amount of time. Spawn placements are easy to figure out. More perks will be needed to delay this since it isn’t an add-on addition. And then we get problems with hooks being close again. I still see this. It’s poor map design. These offerings shouldn’t exist. Sorry devs. Didn’t participate in the Halloween event so I cannot speak for it. Your addition would have to compete with the spots these already have. Less rng, less time added.

Point 2: Does Spirit, Billy, nurse shorten loops? If yes, is it a significant amount of time? I’m not saying to overly buff. We have these three and people still loop. Nurse isn’t really a loop but it’s fun to mind game against her because it isn’t the traditional looping. They are already lessening safe pallets. This in theory should shorten looping and chase time. But I still have to actually see it. On the subjective point of fun, not everyone does. In fact, it seems to frustrate people more often than not. Yes, a chase can be thrilling, but it’s just as likely to be anger-inducing. I find fun in the team part of this game. It can be played as team-oriented. I choose that style. Doing what I can to help others survive, yet I loathe chasing. Even when I play as killer it is boring until the kill. I had to take breaks and play other games if I wanted guaranteed fun. I only find fun in swfs. I only have fun with messing around as killer. Not everyone enjoys it. It just happens to be the most enjoyable thing the game can offer for enough people. So we deal with it or move on.

point 3: I would love for them to just shut everything down and prioritize fixing what they already have. That would be my ideal. It doesn’t have to take long. Adding this second thing would mean more components to fix later. In this regard, I am looking at the long-term. You will get your influx but you will lose people.

You can't fix tunneling as the reality is that no one can agree on what counts as tunneling. Also, depending on the game situation tunneling has to be done as it is the way to start putting pressure on the game. Camping actually sorts itself out the same as it always has. Just do the objective and if a killer wants to waste two and half minutes camping then let them. Honestly, people just want a second objective that adds at most a couple of extra minutes to the game. Just so the fastest trial completion time goes from 3-4mins to 6-8mins. That would place the timing more in line with the current Gatekeeper and Lightbringer emblem weight.

@NoShinyPony Ok so that was your thread, I couldn't remember who made it. I love that idea, that's exactly what I want, something engaging that adds more to the game without being overbearing for both sides.

@NoShinyPony Because you'd only have to patrol 3 gens if you got tired of chasing a survivor. This cuts down time significantly. Also, if for example one gen is separated from the other two, that makes it harder for survivors to actually get the gens done because you as killer also know that's where they're gonna go. They'll get a gen done eventually, they're supposed to, but you're asking to slow the game down. This would allow for that as you don't have to patrol as much due to having only 3 gens you need to worry about in early game. This also rewards survivors by giving them more breathing room as they complete more gens while giving them more pressure in the early game. Keep in mind they also wouldn't know which gens are entity blocked until they found them.