Why should the balance be around the inexperienced players?
Why isn't the balance around the good players? Doesn't every game balance around the best? Does Overwatch balance around gold players? No, it balances around the top. So why isn't this the case with Dead by Daylight?
The game has had some quite good changes such as the DS rework, the nerf to god forsaken perk known as MoM, removal of the pallet vacuum, the endgame collapse and some overall pretty good killer buffs. However, why is it, that with the most recent killers, they have ended up being changed into a worse version of their formal glory.
Legion, their changes were understandable, although I feel like it was too much, it was overall for the health of the game, fine.
The Plague, while her changes were small and she got a decent buff with it, her being slower while holding her vile purge just isnt very helpful especially when most of the match is spent combating the loops. That and the fact that her power can be completely ignored by survivors, sure they're one shot, but most of the time they'll have a loop around so it won't even matter unless you can catch them for sure.
And now, we're with The Ghost Face, an incredibly fun killer, but is ridiculed at high ranks. The Ghost Faces' power lies in the hands of the survivors, I enjoy the little hide and seek game he plays but it is incredibly easy to be revealed. I have played against him as well and i had no trouble getting him out of his stealth. Out of many matches I played against him, I was exposed a very small amount of times. But I fear this "hotfix" is just going to make The Ghost Face another mediocre killer like most of the cast. Now I've heard that the detection is currently bugged, and I agree that it should be fixed, but he needs some changes to help him, not make him worse.
I don't understand why there are changes being made to weaken the weaker killers and meanwhile we're stuck with the same 3 killers at high ranks. Having to play only 3 killers to have a decent chance is not very fun, and if you do play a weaker killer, you have to run Hex:Ruin on them to give yourself time, that is not fun either. Having to micromanage everyone is not fun.
I try to not use Noed because it feels cheap imo, but after playing so many matches where ruin is destroyed almost immediately and then 2 gens pop in the amount of time I down someone, and chase after someone that is on a gen nearby, I dont even care anymore, I'm running noed more often to at least have a better chance at the endgame.
TL;DR So basically, what I'm trying to say in my little "rant" is that, why do some balance changes seem to be made to help the lower ranked survivors instead of making changes to help the higher ranked killers. I would gladly take a Nurse and Billy nerf along with a noed nerf if other killers were brought up to the level of the Spirit, Hag and Huntress. Insta-heals have got to go too, maybe keep the purple one, but the red one's gotta go, take iridescent hatchets too with Omega Blink Nurse and insta saw billy, I dont care, just make the other killers stronger!!!
Ok, rant over I guess, balance around high ranks plz
Comments
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They want to balance around the majority.
And the majority is below rank 10.
Thus, they balance around the "inexperienced players".
Why they do is something i can't tell you, i don't like that mindset either.
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I dont even want to say "bad players" I'd rather say inexperienced, yeah ima change the title to that, but my point remains the same, and the majority (inexperienced) eventually become experienced, like most players do
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You can't screw over new players in order to perfectly balance a game. There has to be some give and take.
That said, you can't screw over red ranks either lol.
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@Redd of course, I'm not saying to make the killers OP/no skill, I'm just saying that if the killer player knows what he's doing, he should be able to have the upper hand because that's how asymmetrical games should work.
The 1 should have more power if he understands the game more than the others and if the others understand the game more they should have the upper hand. And when they both have an equal understanding, the 1 should have significantly more power imo. But yes, I think new players deserve to have chances and stuff
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Its funny that you call out inexperienced players wanting changes to make it more playable for them but they first things you listed as good changes were survivor perks you clearly couldn't play around.
I don't have an issue with any previous killer as they are, it is what it is but I'm sorry, the Ghostface stalk needs a little longer to charge, it's pretty much instant and the best example of it being broken is the fact that out of the last say 25 games i've had 24 Ghostface's.
Legion as a killer is just boring as hell to play against.
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@Rigon Well, how did you play around the old DS when there was no hook around? MoM? Oh wait, you couldn't unless you were Nurse or Hillbilly, great, more of the same killers that everyone loves right? And as someone who mained Freddy for the longest time, these perks were quite the bane of M1 killers existence.
As for Ghostface, I'll gladly accept some nerfs to him, if they make changes to his detection and other parts of his kit.
And Legion, well he's boring in general so I agree with you there
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The problem with balancing Dead by Daylight is that the game is either heavily in favor of the killer or heavily in favor of the survivor; depending on your rank.
If they balance too much around the best players at Rank 1; then killers like the Doctor would become completely oppressive at lower ranks. If they balance too much around the majority of players at the lower ranks; then survivors are way too powerful at red ranks. They are sort of forced to straddle this line where they are kind of trying to both and yet neither; because the sheer skill gap between both ends of the spectrum means they can't actually balance the game. The end result is a meta that is sort of balanced for green ranks but not at all balanced for Rank 1 or Rank 20.
The way they compensate Rank 1 killers for this is that they have killers like the Nurse available to let them still be competitive. The way they compensate non Rank 20 survivors for this is that as a solo survivor it's still pretty easy to rank up to where you belong.
It's not the balance anybody wants, but it's the best balance they've managed to achieve so far, and they aren't going to be able to buff killers too much more than they currently have without making them extremely hard to play well like the Nurse or Spirit. They also can't release those too often though because they still have to also release killers that bad killers can play too.
TLDR: Balance is hard lol.
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Because they want to balance it arounds noobs to make more people join the game then be a high tier game
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@Redd yeah, I get what you mean, I think every different colored rank should have it's own balance. Like green ranks have their own balance, red ranks have their own balance ect. But the problem with that is that people derank to bully newer players and other people simply just dont want to rank up.
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they balance around inexperienced players/new players because they want more new player playing.
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Short answer: It shouldn't. We're 3 years into the games life span. It should be balanced accordingly.
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Have you seen developer streams? There are...not the best.
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Overwatch is based on two equal teams where both can have exactly what the other has and the only real difference is how well they can play. You really can't compare and fps such as that to DBD.
The problem with DBD is the rank system matches players in one huge pool seperated by 15 levels, this is why they balance around the majority and not the top 5% as a 50h players can be matched with a 5kh player.
Unless they can overhaul the system so a newer player can never be matched with a veteran they technically cant balance it your way as the majority will lose every game and then they will probably end up giving up on it.
That's the reality of the situation atm and one I don't see changing anytime soon if ever as I think the game is what it is now.
Post edited by twistedmonkey on2 -
They really need to hide rank from players. Most of the deranking problems would go away if people couldn't track their rank so accurately.
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You are right. Any game should be balanced around good players. And that's also how games (or even any sports) usually are balanced.
It's absolutely normal that inexperienced players should have to practice to get better.
I don't understand why the devs are so hesitant to balance around good players.
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You didn't have an option to play around old DS or MoM.
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Because if u cater to the new players they will buy more DLC and cosmetics and bundle in the fact that many experienced players (myself included) Don't buy stuff anymore unless something is licensed.
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Just pull the trigger already.
Post edited by AsmodeusJones on5 -
i like to enjoy my game, i like the rush i get when the when I'm in the radius and I'm trying to second guess where the killer might go, that's the fun for me. Seems killer development is getting lazy, where has the originality gone?
As for Ghostface, I'm now at 38 games with 35 being him, I'm pretty sure everyone knows he's an easy ride killer, all i ask is that you make the stalk longer, he's actually able to land the stalk on survivors he can't see because it activates so quickly.
If the way this is going is with more and more exposes and silence don't waste development time on maps, just create one bit flat open space with transparent generators because that's what it's getting like.
Btw, not sure if it's meant to do this, i don't play him but the other day i got stalked over a wall i was crouching behind, i knew he could.t see me but it still activated.
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Because it makes sense to balance around ranks 10-20 because that's where the majority is.
Checked steam's global achievements for Dead by Daylight? Only 4% of survivors ever reached to Rank 1 and only 2% of all killers got there. Only 10% of all survivors reached rank 10 and a mere 5% of killers reached it.
A huge majority of players float around rank 10-20.
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Does that not just lead to game imbalance that frustrates all players at both high and low ranks, though?
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I would prefer they balance for ranked play and not just dump new players into that mess. As it is some veteran are still able to bypass the rank system and newer players need a better learning ground so the rest of us are not subjected to their needs. Game balance needs to be focused at those capable of optimal play because that's when the real issues show themselves.
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I think they should balance around high ranks and just increase the skill cap of whatever becomes opressive at lower ranks.
But they won't so idc
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Think about it if a new person gets mad at the game they may quit.
If someone like u or me gets upset o well we take a break but we will be back @PhantomMask20763
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This is pretty accurate.
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To continue the update, 48 played, 41 ghostface's "(
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Because the game has to be fun for both sides and fun means garbage killers who are useless at high ranks
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It's hilarious when a kids game, Crash Team Racing: Nitro Fueled, is more balanced for good players than DbD is.
Try playing Adventure Mode on Hard or getting the Platinum Relics. New players will never get these items, they will have to work to get better and improve their gameplay. Play online, and some 20 year veteran at CTR will finish the race before you even finish lap 2.
It shouldn't be up to the developers to hold the hands of new players. It's pathetic that DbD does this. We all know BHVR priorities:
New player money > Balance for the whole population
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@TAG Definitely. If you make changes for the lowest of ranks then the highest of ranks are gonna change even more extremely. Making it easier for newbie survivors to survive will make it even easier for the most experience survivors to survive.
And a result of that we're already seeing as most survivors in the purple/red ranks have a very "yolo" style of gameplay where they throw themselves at whatever because they're so safe.
Meanwhile the opposite is true for killers. As killers are designed to be "fun" for new players, they suffer severely when faced against experienced ones. That's why there's only 3-5 killers being played in the purple/red ranks.
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There are some killers that completely dominate low ranks and they are not getting touched.
If they balance around low ranks, I dont think they are doing it right xD.
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Why should a game balanced around a minority of hardly 1%? THAT doesnt make any sense.
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@MegsAreEvil Because that's what every other competitive game does it. Makes perfect sense, doesn't it?
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You dont have to run ruin to win. Its the opposite running ruin makes you immersed as what around the game balanced is
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Simple reason is this is a casual party game. They are pushing the balance needle more and more towards the experienced players on the survivor side, which I fear will have a negative long term affect. Think about it, if you are not good at looping, you get destroyed as a survivor nowadays.
I played survivor for the first time in more than a long time last night. I was deranked to 17 (have not played survivor in months) and watched these rank 15 to 20 survivors getting absolutely destroyed. Out of 7 matches, only one killer was truly new. The rest were all experienced killers hanging out at the inexperienced ranks. Several admitted to being red rank killers on other accounts.
So, on a free weekend where we need to bring in new players, they are being smashed by experienced smurfs accounts. Yeah, that is not good for long term game health for a party game. The balance needs to be towards casuals more.
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What you're describing is a separate issue from game mechanic balance. Being balanced towards casuals won't stop experienced players who deliberately make their way to low ranks from having a huge leg up against newer or simply casual players.
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And how many competitive games give one side a latency advantage (killer) for being host?
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This game is balanced on averages, which will never cover the extremes.
For balance regarding pips, just count the matches to get from r12 to red ranks with a mid tier killer and as solo surv from r12 to red ranks and you have the current balance, spiced with some rng.
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this isnt an competitive gameplay like shooters or so. even those games arent balanced around the top. no game which wants to have a high playerbase will balance around top players. thats why most games have ranked modes, cause theyre not supposed to be balanced around top players.
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Dedicated servers are coming so this isn't really a valid point anymore.
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Yeah yeah 'the dragons are coming', but I'm just saying it is not a great to use 'competitive game' term for debates when we don't even have the infrastructure for it.
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The issue I see with balancing the game around rank 10 (bulk of survivor/killers). It assumes that no one improves.
This leads to a greater imbalance in time.
So the game should balance to promote improvement and skill gain. (Red 4)
How many less complaints would we have on both sides if we forced overall game skill improvements? Learning how to loop, how to counter and how to run around a billy etc.
As of now we just have people get to an okay skill and then complain when things get harder.
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I don't think calling DBD a competitive game is realistic at all. It's a casual party game put behind a rank system with no rewards for some reason.
I don't think we'll ever get a game balanced enough out of DBD to legit call it a competitive game.
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It's too bad the devs clearly intend for the game to be competitive, since there has been a Ranking system since Day 1, and they even tried to dabble into official tournaments.
Just because the Ranking system and tournaments are absolutely hideous doesn't mean the game isn't competitive.
It just fails at being competitive.
Wanna know a real party game? Super Smash Bros. That game is MADE competitive by the community, and the developers still balance the game around the top 1% of players because that's simply the smart thing to do.
Even for a "party game." Monopoly is a "party game." You still play it for the sake of competition, and you still play to win. Otherwise, what you are doing isn't a game, it's simply freeform play with no boundaries.
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Not all games are born to be competitive.
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They should make changes in the match depending on ranks. There is a lot to consider but the most basic is that lower ranks should have long and/or more loops, while higher ranks should have smaller and/or less loops, but that is on the top of my head
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"no game which wants to have a high playerbase will balance around top players."
What do you base this claim on?
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What Counterplay was there for old MoM and DS? They were reworked for a reason because they had none. Old MoM should never have made it past concept phase, since all killers have too M1 too down people, so it was completely OP. And old DS you had too slug them, eat it, or dribble them too a hook, all which wasted time on both sides. And GF is fine where he is, he needs bug fixes, but he is fine. You're getting billions of them because he just came out, so the hype around him is still strong.
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I wish there was a way to balance differently based on ranks, for example before rank 15 things are balanced one way, yellow and green ranks another purple another and rank another
I understand it sounds dumb and it's completely impossible, but it seems to be the only way to make everyone happy
Post edited by LCGaster on1 -
It would be easier too just have a QM feature. So you can balance for Ranked and make sure that people at lower ranks can learn in QM. This would make balancing the game 100% easier. Right now, as you said, it's just a mish mash of people trying their best too do something and nothing at the same time. Though, IMO, it should be killer sided since killers are suppose to be a threat.
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